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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 9, 2022 22:22:45 GMT
The reason it was changed it for William's children was also quite important (and not relevant to Harry's children), but people tend to forget that.
They'd just changed it so birth order was key, rather than sons first. But the titles hadn't changed, and the rule for that was that only the first male child of the Prince of Wales's oldest son would be styled Prince.
So if they hadn't changed it, it would have been Prince George, Lady Charlotte, and Louis would probably have used a lower title of William's (like Edward's son does) until Charles became King, when they'd all become Prince/Princess.
The problem would have been if they hadn't changed it and a girl had been born first. Say Charlotte and George were the other way around, you'd have had Lady Charlotte outranked in title by a younger brother (Prince George) but actually ahead of him in the line of succession.
I suppose it isn't often you have four generations alive at once! Letting them have their Prince/Princess titles "early" got rid of the problems of a younger brother outranking an older sister in terms of title.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 10, 2022 7:49:35 GMT
Except of course the Royal patents were issued long after they knew the first child was a boy. So that wasn’t actually the reason - they knew already that it wasn’t a problem for George to outrank his siblings, as future King.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 10, 2022 9:46:16 GMT
Except of course the Royal patents were issued long after they knew the first child was a boy. So that wasn’t actually the reason - they knew already that it wasn’t a problem for George to outrank his siblings, as future King. I'm sorry, but that isn't correct — it was changed at the end of 2012. She was only just pregnant. They could have done the same for Harry's children, but I suspect the thought was that there was no particular reason to do so — they'd just all become Prince/Princess together. The generation above has a mix of cousins with and without titles and it was never a problem. And being blunt... Harry is the younger son, it doesn't matter as much. Anyway, I don't want to go too off topic. I've been thinking how nice the Queen looked in recent years in the bright colours and lovely jewellery. |
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Post by lynette on Sept 10, 2022 15:38:32 GMT
Except of course the Royal patents were issued long after they knew the first child was a boy. So that wasn’t actually the reason - they knew already that it wasn’t a problem for George to outrank his siblings, as future King. There have been occasions when the number 2 actually became the Monarch, notably the Queen’s own father so this change is very significant. Princess Margaret resented all her life that she didn’t get the same education as her sister. So now we know Charlotte and Louis will get the same education, same attention and will be able to make a full contribution if called upon. So it didn't matter that they knew their first baby was male. (And in the light of current controversies, it makes sense not to define the gender of the future monarch.) |
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Post by alece10 on Sept 10, 2022 16:49:29 GMT
How lovely to see the 2 boys doing a walkabout at Windsor and meeting people. So glad Harry hasn't disappeared into the background as, whatever people's views, he has lost his grandmother.
Also watching Catherine taking to the crowds you can just see she will make a great queen when her time comes.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2022 4:17:29 GMT
Except of course the Royal patents were issued long after they knew the first child was a boy. So that wasn’t actually the reason - they knew already that it wasn’t a problem for George to outrank his siblings, as future King. I'm sorry, but that isn't correct — it was changed at the end of 2012. She was only just pregnant. They could have done the same for Harry's children, but I suspect the thought was that there was no particular reason to do so — they'd just all become Prince/Princess together. The generation above has a mix of cousins with and without titles and it was never a problem. And being blunt... Harry is the younger son, it doesn't matter as much. Anyway, I don't want to go too off topic. I've been thinking how nice the Queen looked in recent years in the bright colours and lovely jewellery. The succession rule was changed when she was only just pregnant. The Letters patent for Charlotte and Louis, to grant them the titles of Princess and Prince, were issued when they were born. After George. There was no question of a future female monarch being outranked by her little brother at that point. |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2022 4:29:33 GMT
Except of course the Royal patents were issued long after they knew the first child was a boy. So that wasn’t actually the reason - they knew already that it wasn’t a problem for George to outrank his siblings, as future King. There have been occasions when the number 2 actually became the Monarch, notably the Queen’s own father so this change is very significant. Princess Margaret resented all her life that she didn’t get the same education as her sister. So now we know Charlotte and Louis will get the same education, same attention and will be able to make a full contribution if called upon. So it didn't matter that they knew their first baby was male. (And in the light of current controversies, it makes sense not to define the gender of the future monarch.) I really get the sense that people just don’t understand the intricacies of the George V rules around who gets HRH titles and how Charlotte and Louis were made exception to them.. To be clear, it’s got nothing to do with the change to the succession rules to allow a female monarch. Not is it anything to do with education. They decided to issue letters patent to make Charlotte and Louis HRH when they were born, although they would have become entitled to them automatically when Charles succeeded his mother. They decided not to do the same for Archie. It wasn’t an accident - there was a plan behind those two decisions. Otherwise they’d have issue letters patent granting Archie and Lillibet HRHs when they were born like the did for the others. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 11, 2022 7:53:34 GMT
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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 11, 2022 12:04:35 GMT
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Post by TallPaul on Sept 11, 2022 13:14:58 GMT
With that, could we perhaps get back to commemorating and celebrating the long life of Her Majesty.
We aren't really a demonstrative family, but I took my mum a bunch of flowers yesterday. It just felt like the right thing to do.
She was there right at the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's reign, and has witnessed every milestone since. Because my grandfather was ill at the time, somehow enough money was found for a television, in the hope it would aid his recovery. They were a very popular family on Coronation Day!
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Post by FairyGodmother on Sept 11, 2022 13:26:59 GMT
I can imagine! It seems so funny to think of people all crowding in to watch, where for the King's almost everybody will have their own television/device to watch on.
I'm watching the journey, I'm glad it's a dry day and people can turn out to watch.
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Post by ronnette on Sept 11, 2022 21:54:07 GMT
Just caught up on Her Majesty’s journey today.
What an honour for those young men who carried her into Holyrood.
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Post by anthony40 on Sept 12, 2022 12:13:38 GMT
I tried to get down to The Palace yesterday.
Firstly the Jubilee Line wasn't stopping at Green Park so I had to walk from Bond Street.
I got about 3/4 of the was through Green Park and there were just (understandably) thousands of people.
I actually asked one of the attendants the best route and actually turned around and came home.
I am lucky enough to live in Zone 2 in London so can be at Green Park in under 20 minutes so will try again.
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Post by profquatermass on Sept 12, 2022 12:14:12 GMT
of the many things going through my emotional head today, the thought crossed it of who will be re-embroidering the mammoth ROH curtain? stamps, bank notes. Full marks to Huw Edwards to simply keeping going for so long yesterday. Post boxes have had the E 👑 R insignia emblazoned on them for 70 years, they will all have to be changed. Not only bank notes but all of our coins, she is omnipresent throughout our society and culture. It’s a huge change and could take years. They don't change postboxes. Have a more careful look at them - there are still loads of GR and even VR ones. There are even about 60 Edward VIII postboxes around |
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Post by anthony40 on Sept 12, 2022 12:54:59 GMT
Full marks to Huw Edwards to simply keeping going for so long yesterday. I must admit on the day the announcement came through he look like he was going just loose it and burst into huge Welsh man- sobs! |
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Post by anthony40 on Sept 12, 2022 13:57:38 GMT
And The Queen's Corgi's have been saved. They will now live with Prince Andrew and his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 12, 2022 17:11:09 GMT
Poor dogs. What have they done to deserve Andrew ?
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Post by jojo on Sept 12, 2022 17:56:21 GMT
Absolutely. But perhaps the decision was along the lines of many of the rehoming charities, where they don't want dogs to go to families that are out all day. The rest of the family are all still working and with a bit of luck he'll not show his face in public again after his mother's funeral.
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Post by longinthetooth on Sept 12, 2022 19:08:07 GMT
I read somewhere that the corgis were gifted to the Queen by Andrew and Sarah. Her Majesty was concerned about taking on new puppies at her time of life, and only accepted them as long as A & S agreed to take them back and look after them, should she pass away.
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Post by sph on Sept 13, 2022 13:06:01 GMT
I remember watching a documentary a few years ago about what would happen to the world if humans suddenly disappeared. It showed all the things you'd expect like cities becoming overgrown etc and how long it would take for everything to happen. But most bizarrely, it kept cutting to what would happen to... The Queen's corgis. It was very strange. Like: "Day 7. The Queen's corgis have now been alone for a week" etc. Weird.
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 13, 2022 15:39:02 GMT
I mean no disrespect, but does anybody else find it absolute madness they're closing everything on the 19th? Cinemas, Center Parcs, a show I booked for got rescheduled. I understand some people are sad and wish to mourn, that is of course their right, but to force the country to a standstill is stupid.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 13, 2022 15:54:25 GMT
I mean no disrespect, but does anybody else find it absolute madness they're closing everything on the 19th? Cinemas, Center Parcs, a show I booked for got rescheduled. I understand some people are sad and wish to mourn, that is of course their right, but to force the country to a standstill is stupid. It's a historic event that many staff will probably also want to stay home or travel to London to watch. I think asking people to actually vacate centre parcs is nuts and will hopefully be reversed but I suppose it's about accident risk. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 13, 2022 15:58:24 GMT
I mean no disrespect, but does anybody else find it absolute madness they're closing everything on the 19th? Cinemas, Center Parcs, a show I booked for got rescheduled. I understand some people are sad and wish to mourn, that is of course their right, but to force the country to a standstill is stupid. It's a historic event that many staff will probably also want to stay home or travel to London to watch. I think asking people to actually vacate centre parcs is nuts and will hopefully be reversed but I suppose it's about accident risk. I suppose. I'm thinking more of those who will lose a days wages whether they want to or not. |
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Post by alece10 on Sept 13, 2022 17:44:45 GMT
Lovely gesture from the BFI.
From Wednesday 14 September, Her Majesty will lie in state at Westminster Hall for five days with a substantial number of people anticipated to pay their respects. The South Bank will play an important part in the queue management, and the BFI will be supporting this.
BFI Southbank will be open 24 hours a day from today until 06:00 on Monday 19 September. Our coffee bar and restaurant will be open throughout, and our toilet facilities will be available via The Riverfront entrance for the comfort of those queuing. We’ll also be screening a selection of films featuring Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II along South Bank by Waterloo Bridge.
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Post by sph on Sept 13, 2022 18:03:39 GMT
It does seem a bit mad to be kicking people out of Centre Parcs for a 24 hour period. That just makes no sense at all.
I understand that it's a historic day in many ways, but there are still many people who will have to continue working just to keep the infrastructure of society going. Nowadays people have the freedom to choose whether or not they mourn, it shouldn't be enforced like we've gone back in time 100 years - or more!
And on the edge of a massive economic crisis, should we really bring everything grinding to a halt?
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