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Post by talkingheads on Dec 2, 2020 14:28:52 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to "reduce the surplus population". There is no survival of the fittest. This isn't a 'look at me I'm so macho I can defeat the virus' situation. Anybody can get it and suffer. Hence why everybody taking precautions is the best form of defence. The vaccine is being rolled out. A few more months of restrictions and we'll be through the worst. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 14:45:02 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to "reduce the surplus population". There is no survival of the fittest. This isn't a 'look at me I'm so macho I can defeat the virus' situation. Anybody can get it and suffer. Hence why everybody taking precautions is the best form of defence. The vaccine is being rolled out. A few more months of restrictions and we'll be through the worst. Nobody said anything about being macho; that's just an interpretation. Everybody taking precautions and shutting down the economy hasn't worked and the long term damage will be felt for years. I do agree regarding the vaccine rollout - thankfully the excuses for inertia will taper off as immunity grows. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 2, 2020 19:13:06 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to " reduce the surplus population".Until you become one of the âsurplusâ yourself. Survival of the fittest has worrying connotations that I donât think we want to revisit. I only drop into this thread occasionally because some of what has been said before has freaked me out and @thematthew is monitoring anyway. But seriously? Youâre talking about the survival of the fittest in a global pandemic? Thatâs not taboo, itâs downright inhuman. Iâm appalled at that to be honest. |
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Post by lynette on Dec 2, 2020 19:21:49 GMT
Survival of the fittest is nothing to do with how many times you go to the gym. Fittest is fittest for the environment you are in. Please read up before you pronounce ceebee. As for herd immunity, well again I suggest you read more. Think about why we do not see kids in callipers these days or suffer the appalling loss of infants from whooping cough, measles and the like ( well not so often now ) Herd immunity did not save kids then and would not do so now, we are all individuals: you might be immune ( lucky you) but I am not and you do not protect me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 19:28:20 GMT
Always great to see that some British people are as stupid and selfish as some German people, always lifts me up when I get low. Just reading this topic. And if everything else fails, someone will waive the mental health card as an exuse for anything. Just love it.  Always great to see that some people are as stupid as to not educate themselves on mental health. As someone with prolonged mental health problems that I fight every day, your use of the phrase "the mental health card" offends me deeply and shows an astonishing level of ignorance, as well as a laziness in generalisation. I have personally never said we shouldn't take precautions, and I do not believe in the slightest in herd immunity. I wear a mask, I socially distance, I wash my hands and aside from visiting my sister and occasionally going into the office I barely go out. But if I didn't leave my house or wasn't able occasionally to see people, even outdoors, I would probably be suicidal by now. As it is there have been times in this pandemic when frankly I haven't been that far off it. Loneliness and isolation are real problems for many and people like you who clearly have no compassion make it worse. What I do believe in is the right for people to elect to take a proportionate level of risk to their own circumstances (and those of people they choose to come into contact with) in order to try to keep themselves and others in jobs and keep the economy going given the government's abject failure at that, and to try to treat other conditions that aren't COVID with the seriousness they deserve rather than making everything that isn't COVID a second-class concern. All of that is allowed within the current restrictions, so no-one should be vilified for doing that. In other words, I prefer sensible and proportionate precautions rather than paranoia, and I do care about things other than COVID. Apparently that is a taboo opinion on here, which suggests that perhaps my time on this forum should come to an end. Much more rational discussions on this subject which take into account mental health and other concerns in the right way are to be had elsewhere. |
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Post by sfsusan on Dec 2, 2020 20:09:48 GMT
I place more value on free movement for the majority rather restricted movement for all, just so "we're all in it together". But that's not why more value is being placed on restricted movement for all. It's not virtue-signalling, it's to stop the spread of the virus. Free movement for the majority is free movement for the virus. |
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Post by sfsusan on Dec 2, 2020 20:23:40 GMT
Everybody taking precautions and shutting down the economy hasn't worked I've heard that countries that prioritized virus control over saving the economy actually ended up with less damage to their economies than countries that sacrificed public health for the good of the economy. I'd love to see any documentation about this. And in my opinion, part of the reason the shutdowns were limited in their success is that fighting the virus needed to be done on two fronts... the public removing themselves as hosts and the means of spread, and the government committing to testing, tracking, and tracing along with extensive financial support. That did apparently happen in countries that were successful in squashing the virus. |
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Post by kathryn on Dec 2, 2020 22:26:00 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to "reduce the surplus population". 'Survival of the fittest' would = 'survival of the richest'. The people who can afford to stay at home in comfortable, uncrowded accommodation, and get whatever they need delivered are the ones most likely to survive this virus if it was left to run unchecked through the population. Anyone who must leave the house and come into close contact with other people for work, or living in close quarters with people who have to do that, would be most at risk. This is actually no different that plagues of the past - the poorest, in the worst living conditions, were always most at risk. Of course, what history tells us is that great swathes of the population dying does end up having an adverse effect even on the rich. Eventually disease also spreads to the wealthier echelons of society, and the labour shortages and loss of productivity from the disruption impacts on everyone, with rising prices and shortages of essential goods as a knock-on effect. Seriously, anyone with a cursory knowledge of history will tell you that disease ripping through the population and killing a lot of people is very bad for everyone.
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 23:29:27 GMT
Survival of the fittest is nothing to do with how many times you go to the gym. Fittest is fittest for the environment you are in. Please read up before you pronounce ceebee. As for herd immunity, well again I suggest you read more. Think about why we do not see kids in callipers these days or suffer the appalling loss of infants from whooping cough, measles and the like ( well not so often now ) Herd immunity did not save kids then and would not do so now, we are all individuals: you might be immune ( lucky you) but I am not and you do not protect me. Who the hell mentioned gyms?! |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 23:30:05 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to " reduce the surplus population".Until you become one of the âsurplusâ yourself. Survival of the fittest has worrying connotations that I donât think we want to revisit. I only drop into this thread occasionally because some of what has been said before has freaked me out and @thematthew is monitoring anyway. But seriously? Youâre talking about the survival of the fittest in a global pandemic? Thatâs not taboo, itâs downright inhuman. Iâm appalled at that to be honest. Fine, you be appalled. It's a view. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 2, 2020 23:55:15 GMT
Without quoting anyone, I am absolutely shocked by people language on this thread, being utter selfish, this is utterly reprehensible - because they cannot lead their lives. They cannot bear to put their lives on hold, that might save someone parent of grandparent. All this in a day when it was announced by the Prime Minister that the first vaccine has been given the green light and how they purpose to distribute the vaccine, so people can have THEIR freedom back, regardless of their age age and health.
The end is now in sight for both the selfless and selfish.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 3, 2020 6:34:21 GMT
Goodness me, things are out of control in the USA. Biden said yesterday to expect another 250,000 deaths by January - end of January is 8 weeks away. There is no more hospital capacity, staff levels are anyway reducing due to their own deaths and illness, things were getting far worse anyway but now the huge post-Thanksgiving wave will hit in about 10 days.
At some point over Christmas they won't be able to bury the bodies quick enough.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 3, 2020 7:02:37 GMT
Goodness me, things are out of control in the USA. Biden said yesterday to expect another 250,000 deaths by January - end of January is 8 weeks away. There is no more hospital capacity, staff levels are anyway reducing due to their own deaths and illness, things were getting far worse anyway but now the huge post-Thanksgiving wave will hit in about 10 days. At some point over Christmas they won't be able to bury the bodies quick enough. I would say Trump's response to Covid (if you can call it that) is, survival of the fittest and unfortunately some people want that over here. Nigel Farrage crawled out a few weeks ago stating we should do something similar over here. We live in dangerous times. |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 3, 2020 7:20:11 GMT
tbh, I thought Covid was the single issue that called him out - that required competent leadership. Everything else was someone else's fault or didn't interest him. He couldn't dodge the virus. He has no skills - he's a professional game show host who blagged a life off his dads money. This will scale up to be a loss of human life not dissimilar to Iraq.
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Post by Jane Parfitt on Dec 3, 2020 8:06:33 GMT
Without quoting anyone, I am absolutely shocked by people language on this thread, being utter selfish, this is utterly reprehensible - because they cannot lead their lives. They cannot bear to put their lives on hold, that might save someone parent of grandparent. All this in a day when it was announced by the Prime Minister that the first vaccine has been given the green light and how they purpose to distribute the vaccine, so people can have THEIR freedom back, regardless of their age age and health. The end is now in sight for both the selfless and selfish. I've been thinking of the right words to say exactly this and you've said it so much better than I could have done. đȘ |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2020 10:20:18 GMT
tbh, I thought Covid was the single issue that called him out - that required competent leadership. Everything else was someone else's fault or didn't interest him. He couldn't dodge the virus. He has no skills - he's a professional game show host who blagged a life off his dads money. This will scale up to be a loss of human life not dissimilar to Iraq. Adding up the numbers from one site the US wartime deaths in battle or in service come to 154,722 for the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War and the War on Terror combined ( source). Current Covid-19 deaths in the US are 80% higher than that.
It's not just that Trump has handled this crisis less competently than any other major leader but that he's also actively tried to suppress the fight against it and encouraged his supporters to see it as a leftist plot to overthrow him, resulting in violence against medical workers that has put them in fear of their lives. He should spend the remainder of his life in prison for what he's done. |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 3, 2020 11:54:26 GMT
Well, Trump was incompetent but he wasn't a warmonging invader/occupier. Though sure, he liked a drone attack.
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Post by adrianics on Dec 3, 2020 15:27:56 GMT
My wife and I moved from London to Warwickshire in April; we were very unexpectedly put into tier 3 last week.
I don't mind telling you all that I saw a news story last night about fans being allowed back to football games in London and burst into tears. It's so hard watching so many people go back to a brief taste of normal life, I've missed going to live performance, theatre and football so much, and my wife and I can't even go to the pub for a couple of drinks.
My social media is full of our old friends in London going out, eating good meals, drinking good drink, enjoying life once again.
I understand why, obviously, I get that sacrifices need to be made and the stakes we're working with, but it's just so damn hard.
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Post by ceebee on Dec 3, 2020 21:55:45 GMT
My wife and I moved from London to Warwickshire in April; we were very unexpectedly put into tier 3 last week. I don't mind telling you all that I saw a news story last night about fans being allowed back to football games in London and burst into tears. It's so hard watching so many people go back to a brief taste of normal life, I've missed going to live performance, theatre and football so much, and my wife and I can't even go to the pub for a couple of drinks. My social media is full of our old friends in London going out, eating good meals, drinking good drink, enjoying life once again. I understand why, obviously, I get that sacrifices need to be made and the stakes we're working with, but it's just so damn hard. Well said. Thankfully we're past the worst and the meals, drinks, theatre and proper living can resume. Then life's perennial whingers will no doubt find another soapbox to jump on. |
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Post by n1david on Dec 4, 2020 7:59:49 GMT
My social media is full of our old friends in London going out, eating good meals, drinking good drink, enjoying life once again. Tier 2 isnât all that different to Tier 3. I donât know whatâs on your social media, but your friends must have had a very busy Wednesday evening as thatâs the first time that the rules changed. Tier 2 still doesnât allow socialising with other households indoors so I still canât go out for a meal with friends within the guidelines, and as for pubs well only if youâre eating, which rather destroys the âdrinks then dinnerâ plan (bearing in mind again you can only do this with your household). So I donât know what your friends are up to, but while this Londoner can go and see the (very) occasional play, all my local cinemas are still closed and my social life - in terms of friends - remains completely curtailed. |
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Post by adrianics on Dec 4, 2020 9:27:06 GMT
My social media is full of our old friends in London going out, eating good meals, drinking good drink, enjoying life once again. Tier 2 isnât all that different to Tier 3. I donât know whatâs on your social media, but your friends must have had a very busy Wednesday evening as thatâs the first time that the rules changed. Tier 2 still doesnât allow socialising with other households indoors so I still canât go out for a meal with friends within the guidelines, and as for pubs well only if youâre eating, which rather destroys the âdrinks then dinnerâ plan (bearing in mind again you can only do this with your household). So I donât know what your friends are up to, but while this Londoner can go and see the (very) occasional play, all my local cinemas are still closed and my social life - in terms of friends - remains completely curtailed. Yes, a lot of my friends booked meals out for the "first night of freedom", as some of them have called it. Not to mention a lot of venues I'm aware of in Tier 2 are busy finding loopholes around the "substantial meal" rule, especially since the scotch egg discourse a couple of days ago. I'm sorry, but being able to go out for a meal at a restaurant or pub is a *huge* difference and would make a great difference to my mental health in this situation. I would love to go for a good meal with my wife, but it isn't an option. |
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Post by adrianics on Dec 4, 2020 9:27:53 GMT
My wife and I moved from London to Warwickshire in April; we were very unexpectedly put into tier 3 last week. I don't mind telling you all that I saw a news story last night about fans being allowed back to football games in London and burst into tears. It's so hard watching so many people go back to a brief taste of normal life, I've missed going to live performance, theatre and football so much, and my wife and I can't even go to the pub for a couple of drinks. My social media is full of our old friends in London going out, eating good meals, drinking good drink, enjoying life once again. I understand why, obviously, I get that sacrifices need to be made and the stakes we're working with, but it's just so damn hard. Well said. Thankfully we're past the worst and the meals, drinks, theatre and proper living can resume. Then life's perennial whingers will no doubt find another soapbox to jump on. I'm not entirely sure why you think my post backs up what you've been saying in this thread, but to be completely clear I find your attitude towards the pandemic and comments on the disabled appalling. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 4, 2020 10:18:15 GMT
Well said. Thankfully we're past the worst and the meals, drinks, theatre and proper living can resume. Then life's perennial whingers will no doubt find another soapbox to jump on. I'm not entirely sure why you think my post backs up what you've been saying in this thread, but to be completely clear I find your attitude towards the pandemic and comments on the disabled appalling. I didn't say anything about it backing up my post, I was simply agreeing with your own post. And to clarify, I've made absolutely no comments on the "disabled" (less able, perhaps?), so wind your neck in. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 4, 2020 10:25:32 GMT
I'm not entirely sure why you think my post backs up what you've been saying in this thread, but to be completely clear I find your attitude towards the pandemic and comments on the disabled appalling. I didn't say anything about it backing up my post, I was simply agreeing with your own post. And to clarify, I've made absolutely no comments on the "disabled" (less able, perhaps?), so wind your neck in. Funny what different people take from the same sentence |
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Post by adrianics on Dec 4, 2020 11:02:47 GMT
Well, unless you include these things that you said: "The rest of us have got a right to live our lives. We've spent the best part of a year sacrificing pretty much everything. Like it or not, maybe it is time for those who need to shield to actually shield, and for those who don't to carry on with life. In your own words, "I have a bloody right not to shield" just because you have a lung condition. Perhaps that is your own health issue to manage - why should everybody else face restricted movements just to accommodate the few with issues? That's ridiculous and a "race to the bottom". Harsh though it sounds, we need to get the hell back on with living and stop pandering to the minority who can (and should) shield." (When told that your comments suggest a negative attitude towards the vulnerable/disabled) "Perhaps. I place more value on free movement for the majority rather restricted movement for all, just so "we're all in it together"." "We need to all get the shows back on the road for the majority, not shut them all down to appease the minority." You know full well the implications of what you're saying, particularly your comments on "survival of the fittest" and your likening of protecting those who are more vulnerable to "pandering to the minority", so maybe you should just own what you say and the implications of it, rather than attempting to hide behind pedantry. |
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