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Post by christya on Nov 27, 2020 14:14:19 GMT
I'll also be going to the theatre in January, unless it's outright banned. I think my area will probably be out of Tier 3 by then, but if it's not, I'll be going. I'll take all the precautions I can, but I don't consider myself any more of a risk than anyone else, considering that I work from home and only see one person who also works from home and sees only me. I need to do something that isn't work or sleep.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Nov 27, 2020 14:49:46 GMT
Have my first Theatre visit post lockdown 2 scheduled for next Friday with a further 6 booked on the run up to Christmas and will likely add a few more if I can get some deals.
These visits will be in line with the Tier 2 rules and do not consider it risky or selfish, as a solo visitor, interactions with other people will be minimal with travel outside the peak period.
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Post by drowseychap on Nov 28, 2020 14:39:30 GMT
I learned today when popped to my local coffee shop they are 1.2 miles away and are going into tier 2 next week but I’m in 3 the cut off is the main road 20metres from my house 😱.... I know they have to decide somewhere but !
So if I lived across the road I could travel to London now problem 🤪 as in same tier ?
The nearest town centre to me is also 4.5 miles away in tier 2 .... the one in tier 3 I’ve been lumped in with is 7 miles
Away
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Post by theatreian on Nov 28, 2020 15:16:25 GMT
Round the corner from where I live , one side of the road is tier 3, the other side is tier 2! It is an odd world we are living in!!
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Post by maggiem on Nov 30, 2020 14:07:22 GMT
I can walk to the border with Tier 2 (Cheshire) in just a few minutes from where I live, near to the East Lancs Road).
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Nov 30, 2020 16:31:24 GMT
I can walk to the border with Tier 2 (Cheshire) in just a few minutes from where I live, near to the East Lancs Road). That's legally as well? |
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Post by Jonnyboy on Dec 1, 2020 23:39:58 GMT
Yes selfish. With a capital S. It isn't about their lives, it's about the lives of everybody they could infect on the way down. We're a few months from a vaccine and people choose now to gather in winter? Its time for role reversal. Those willing to live their lives with increased risk, crack on with it. Those who are unwilling, live your lives in lockdown. This social experiment is nonsense and must stop. Time people stood up against this anti-arts philistine government and stick two fingers up to unenforceable rules. What about those of us wishing to live our lives and contribute to society in a valuable way but without unnecessary increased risk? I work in healthcare. I have a lung condition. I have a bloody right to not have to shield because people are doing what the hell they want. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Let’s get to a safer place with the vaccine. This isn’t a mind game. It’s science. |
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Post by CG on the loose on Dec 2, 2020 0:03:38 GMT
Its time for role reversal. Those willing to live their lives with increased risk, crack on with it. Those who are unwilling, live your lives in lockdown. This social experiment is nonsense and must stop. Time people stood up against this anti-arts philistine government and stick two fingers up to unenforceable rules. What about those of us wishing to live our lives and contribute to society in a valuable way but without unnecessary increased risk? I work in healthcare. I have a lung condition. I have a bloody right to not have to shield because people are doing what the hell they want. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Let’s get to a safer place with the vaccine. This isn’t a mind game. It’s science. It's not always that black or white. I absolutely respect your need to be able to go about your life as safely as anyone else. So while I don't have to cope with the same risks as you do, I'm living in pretty much permanent self-isolation so that I can sometimes do a little of what makes my life worth living, without putting you and others at risk. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 6:09:45 GMT
Its time for role reversal. Those willing to live their lives with increased risk, crack on with it. Those who are unwilling, live your lives in lockdown. This social experiment is nonsense and must stop. Time people stood up against this anti-arts philistine government and stick two fingers up to unenforceable rules. What about those of us wishing to live our lives and contribute to society in a valuable way but without unnecessary increased risk? I work in healthcare. I have a lung condition. I have a bloody right to not have to shield because people are doing what the hell they want. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Let’s get to a safer place with the vaccine. This isn’t a mind game. It’s science. The rest of us have got a right to live our lives. We've spent the best part of a year sacrificing pretty much everything. Like it or not, maybe it is time for those who need to shield to actually shield, and for those who don't to carry on with life. In your own words, "I have a bloody right not to shield" just because you have a lung condition. Perhaps that is your own health issue to manage - why should everybody else face restricted movements just to accommodate the few with issues? That's ridiculous and a "race to the bottom". Harsh though it sounds, we need to get the hell back on with living and stop pandering to the minority who can (and should) shield. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 2, 2020 6:28:41 GMT
@ceebbee I think your post is a race to the bottom as you have demonstrated no compassion towards disability / vulnerable people.
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Post by vdcni on Dec 2, 2020 7:20:15 GMT
The nonsense of this whole argument is those that say 'healthy' people can just go about their business while everyone else shields seem to be imagining a world in which everything else is going on as normal while the virus spreads unchecked through the population.
Given the risk factors include obesity the number of people potentially at risk is actually very high, they may not die with it but enough of them with serious cases would overwhelm the health service. On top of that many people won't always know they have an underlying health condition. Also many people won't want to go about as normal out of concern of catching it and the level of absenteeism through illness would be high.
It's like the argument about lockdown causing issues around other conditions being untreated or mental health problems - it's always compared against the norm rather than a reality where the number of cases and deaths is much higher than it is now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 7:28:14 GMT
There's a shocking disconnection between the people who casually say we should just get on with life and the stories coming out of hospitals where staff spend every day with terrified patients who are desperately struggling for every breath. By all accounts it's a horrible way to die.
So we can't do 100% of what we want to do for a few months. So what? It's not the end of the world. There are still many, many things we can do. But some people aren't prepared to make even a small adjustment to their lives for a while to help prevent tens of thousands of deaths.
And this is only temporary. I used to go to the theatre around three times a week but then health problems put an end to that and now I'll never be able to maintain that sort of frequency again. Ever. So I found other things to do. Change happens and the only choice you have is whether you complain about it or move on, and in our privileged society there are so many ways of moving on. At least in this case we know everything will get back to normal. But no: for some it's "I don't wanna wait! I want it now!"
There will come a day for every single one of us when we find out how we are going to die. I hope that those of you who prioritise your own wants over the deaths of others are treated more sympathetically when your own time comes.
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Post by Jonnyboy on Dec 2, 2020 8:12:08 GMT
What about those of us wishing to live our lives and contribute to society in a valuable way but without unnecessary increased risk? I work in healthcare. I have a lung condition. I have a bloody right to not have to shield because people are doing what the hell they want. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Let’s get to a safer place with the vaccine. This isn’t a mind game. It’s science. The rest of us have got a right to live our lives. We've spent the best part of a year sacrificing pretty much everything. Like it or not, maybe it is time for those who need to shield to actually shield, and for those who don't to carry on with life. In your own words, "I have a bloody right not to shield" just because you have a lung condition. Perhaps that is your own health issue to manage - why should everybody else face restricted movements just to accommodate the few with issues? That's ridiculous and a "race to the bottom". Harsh though it sounds, we need to get the hell back on with living and stop pandering to the minority who can (and should) shield. Well I won’t shield because I have a responsibility to all my patients. Perhaps I should just be a human sacrifice so everyone else can enjoy themselves. The point is that every person has the right to live their lives and no matter what proportions we’re considering, we all should be looking after our fellow man. I just can’t comprehend someone wanting to carry on, knowing that it’s likely a few more will die because of that. Shocking. |
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Post by Jan on Dec 2, 2020 9:07:47 GMT
So we can't do 100% of what we want to do for a few months. So what? It's not the end of the world. You are projecting your own situation onto other people. "What we want" might include not wanting to go bankrupt, or not wanting your cancer scan postponed again, or not wanting to be unemployed for the rest of your life. For those people it might be the end of the world. |
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Post by southstreet on Dec 2, 2020 9:34:22 GMT
I think there is very much a middle ground to be had. I think people that are not in risk groups should definitely be allowed to enjoy the things that are currently allowed wherever they live, i.e. if you're in tier one or two and theatres are open, nobody should judge them for going or for going to a restaurant in whatever combination is allowed in their tier. People that are at risk might choose not to do so, because they don't want to add that risk to their lives.
However, that doesn't mean that people not at risk should just be allowed to do whatever the heck they want, have parties and live their lives like Covid isn't a thing because people are dying of it and some people that are in risk groups still have to go out to work, etc so you can't help but mix with them at times as well and therefore are putting them at risk.
So I don't think we should all live like hermits, locked into our homes if we don't need to be, we have to for our mental health as well (I work at home, am currently living on my own and this second lockdown has been bloody hard), but seeing that we are only looking at a few more months of this, we should also be mindful of others.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 10:07:17 GMT
So we can't do 100% of what we want to do for a few months. So what? It's not the end of the world. You are projecting your own situation onto other people. "What we want" might include not wanting to go bankrupt, or not wanting your cancer scan postponed again, or not wanting to be unemployed for the rest of your life. For those people it might be the end of the world. My situation is that I'm someone who had to wait months for an abdominal scan so I'm aware that "what we want" may be a major concern for some people. I'm also aware that the only reason I was able to get my scan this year was because we managed to get the coronavirus under control over the summer, and right now the progress of my own (admittedly low-priority) case is on hold because of the resurgence of cases in October. The relaxed let's-get-on-with-life approach advocated by some people here would make it far harder for people to get treatment, not easier. Keeping the virus under control results in the NHS having more capacity for dealing with other diseases, not less.
And let's not misrepresent what this particular thread is about. People here are talking about wanting to go to the theatre and meet friends, not saving their business.
It's not as if this is some hypothetical discussion. Most of the world's governments are trying to keep things under control, and it seems extremely unlikely that the people here who want to get back to normal no matter what the cost could know more about disease than the medical experts and more about the economy than the people whose job it is to manage the economy. There's only one major government that's adopting a laissez faire attitude and that's the Trump administration, and in case you haven't noticed things aren't going all that great over there. I was reading a few days ago about a town that's having to store bodies in shipping containers because there's nowhere else to put them. That's the reality of the "let's get back to normal" approach.
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 10:17:58 GMT
@ceebbee I think your post is a race to the bottom as you have demonstrated no compassion towards disability / vulnerable people. Perhaps. I place more value on free movement for the majority rather restricted movement for all, just so "we're all in it together". Mental illness is an invisible disability and I have every compassion for that - something overlooked by many and crass straplines like "it's okay not to be okay" which are really only good for pithy soundbites and social media virtue signalling. We need to all get the shows back on the road for the majority, not shut them all down to appease the minority. Sorry if you don't like this view - it's just mine. We are all allowed to hold different views. |
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Post by maggiem on Dec 2, 2020 10:24:29 GMT
I can walk to the border with Tier 2 (Cheshire) in just a few minutes from where I live, near to the East Lancs Road). That's legally as well? Until this morning, no. From now until we have the vaccine, or there is another lockdown (whichever is earlier), it isn't advised or encouraged. I used my example to illustrate just how easy it would be to cross the "border" for anyone living close to the line between two tiers. I'm also bloody sure that from this morning until Christmas/New Year, people from Leigh will be going in cars or on the bus across that line to visit Bent's Garden Centre and the Comfortable Gill pub opposite without giving a toss about the rules. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 10:26:21 GMT
BTW, whilst I am fit and healthy now, I have had pneumonia twice previously and know how it feels to be fighting for every shallow breath. Its a horrible place to be. As is any other illness. However, the world can't (and shouldn't) stop until every conceivable threat has been eliminated, as this will never happen. The doors are opening, shackles being released and eventually some slow steps back to something close to normality will result. We are now in that process, do it is right that those who need to shield do so, and those who don't need to are able to go about living their lives again. I'm vulnerable to respiratory illnesses, clearly, but I still firmly believe that the time is right to get things moving - whilst we still have an economy and arts sector to nurture back to rude health.
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Post by theatreian on Dec 2, 2020 10:36:04 GMT
I think in a so called civilised society we would hope that we would look out for each other. If nothing else good comes out of this year it has hopefully brought out acts of kindness and a greater understanding of the needs of others and how everyone benefits if we think of others and not just ourselves.
The next 6 months may test our patience but this morning at least we have hope and an end in sight. At this special time of year we should try and be tolerant and understand the needs of others and their concerns. We have to realise we cannot always have everything we want now, especially at the moment.
I would love to be able to see my parents , but out of concern for them I will leave it for now. would also love to be able to go out for a meal or to see a show. Frankly I can wait for another few months if that is what it takes.
We are the first country to authorise a vaccine so hopefully things will speed up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 10:38:36 GMT
And let's not misrepresent what this particular thread is about. People here are talking about wanting to go to the theatre and meet friends, not saving their business. You are the one misrepresenting here - this thread, as its title suggests, is for general discussion relating to Coronavirus. Which includes the legitimate economic and non-Covid health concerns expressed by many in here. If you wish as moderator to dictate what we can and can't discuss in here, then that is your prerogative, but be open about it rather than suggesting this thread is something that up until now it hasn't been. No-one is talking only about whether we can or can't go to the theatre |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Dec 2, 2020 10:42:57 GMT
Always great to see that some British people are as stupid and selfish as some German people, always lifts me up when I get low. Just reading this topic. And if everything else fails, someone will waive the mental health card as an exuse for anything. Just love it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 11:04:37 GMT
And let's not misrepresent what this particular thread is about. People here are talking about wanting to go to the theatre and meet friends, not saving their business. You are the one misrepresenting here - this thread, as its title suggests, is for general discussion relating to Coronavirus. Which includes the legitimate economic and non-Covid health concerns expressed by many in here. I phrased that poorly and you've misunderstood me. It's obviously a general discussion; it says so right there in the title.
What I was trying to say was that over the past few days — in this particular part of the thread — whenever people have posted their objections to lockdown and tiers it's always been about doing what they want. Jan Brock's reply to me went on about businesses failing and cancer treatments, but the context of my original post was several people saying that they didn't care what happened so long as they were free to do whatever they chose: nothing to do with the economy or wider health issues at all. I was referring to the recent history, not the subject of the thread as a whole.
Which is why I said "People here are talking about wanting to go to the theatre and meet friends" and not "People here should be talking about wanting to go to the theatre and meet friends".
I'm not dictating anything (and FYI, the fact that I'm active in this discussion means I won't take any moderator actions on it without approval from the others). I was referring to what was actually happening here, not what I wanted to happen. If I had any say in what should happen then it would be the complete opposite of people complaining that they can't go to the theatre. I'd love it if people were discussing the wider implications of allowing the coronavirus to spread and the effect it would have on our tourism and transport industries, for example. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 2, 2020 13:40:18 GMT
Personally, I favour herd immunity and survival of the fittest, but that borders on being a taboo opinion these days and a tad Scrooge-like in seeking to "reduce the surplus population".
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Post by lichtie on Dec 2, 2020 13:50:21 GMT
There is no such thing as natural herd immunity. Herd immunity is only achieved through vaccination. Smallpox was highly virulent. It would never have been eradicated without vaccination. People would have kept dying.
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