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Post by danb on Sept 27, 2020 6:42:21 GMT
. And now they've scrapped the ridiculously privacy-hostile central database idea there's not really any downside to the app apart from having to recharge a little more often if you usually leave Bluetooth off.] Apart from the fact that it doesnât work with my iPhone. (Yes, Iâm one of those odd people that expect a phone that costs me ÂŁ500 to last for 5+ years, so I still have an iPhone 6.) ...and I actively chose another 6plus twice in a row when it came to upgrade time because I was perfectly happy with it (other than the chipped to buggery screen and full to bursting memory making it run at a snails pace). Iâve finally relented and have an 11 now. And as many have said, no conspiracy theory could match the actual buffoonery & uselessness of the continuing government response. It is simply unbelievable and unforgivable. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 7:10:12 GMT
Conspiracy theorists weird me out. It's like they think it's impossible for anything to happen that doesn't meet with their approval, and what makes it worse is that there's never any sense to the conspiracy. What gets me is that they think that, say, the government is efficient enough to cover up a conspiracy. Can anyone seriously believe that it would be possible to keep âfakeâ moon landings secret for so long? So many people would have to be involved it would have come out by now. And that every person involved is so financially comfortable that not a single one of them could have even the tiniest amount to gain by selling their story to the media.
If real humans were as efficient as the imaginary humans in conspiracy theories then we'd all have our flying cars and hoverboards by now and some of us should be posting to this forum from Mars.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 27, 2020 7:55:05 GMT
Wondering if it is worth suggesting to those conspiracy theorists in Trafalgar Square, how fast you can download this app by using 5G. He he. Worth repeating and highlighting that post |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 27, 2020 8:11:57 GMT
A little light satire  |
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Post by Jan on Sept 27, 2020 10:19:21 GMT
Interesting data from a recent survey by Kings College London (link below) - from March to August only 18% of those suspecting they have the virus did actually self isolate, and only 11% of those contacted by Test and Trace to alert them to recent exposure to the virus stayed at home as requested. Can't say I'm surprised. www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.15.20191957v1.full.pdf |
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Post by lynette on Sept 27, 2020 14:03:31 GMT
What gets me is that they think that, say, the government is efficient enough to cover up a conspiracy. Can anyone seriously believe that it would be possible to keep âfakeâ moon landings secret for so long? So many people would have to be involved it would have come out by now. And that every person involved is so financially comfortable that not a single one of them could have even the tiniest amount to gain by selling their story to the media.
If real humans were as efficient as the imaginary humans in conspiracy theories then we'd all have our flying cars and hoverboards by now and some of us should be posting to this forum from Mars.
I agree , we are not clever enough to maintain a true conspiracy. Having said that, you do know about for example, Operation Mincemeat in WWII? Of course this is deception rather than conspiracy but the detail is amazing. It depended on human nature to a large extent, personal greed, vanity and need for glory on the part of the deceived. But sheer dedicated intelligence on the part of the deceivers. It worked and hey, to the good. Whoâs to say that the same intelligence couldnât be used to the bad? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 17:26:15 GMT
I see the Christmas-themed masks have appeared. Prepare for Rudolph masks with a glowing red LED nose and masks that play tinny carols.
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Post by dontdreamit on Sept 27, 2020 17:27:55 GMT
I see the Christmas-themed masks have appeared. Prepare for Rudolph masks with a glowing red LED nose and masks that play tinny carols. I hadnât even thought of Christmas masks- youngest like to match mask with outfits so I best get making them one or two đ |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 27, 2020 19:34:56 GMT
So today I got a text message telling me to download the NHS app.
You know, the one that wonât work on my phone.
đ€·ââïž
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 20:27:29 GMT
It looks like Apple's to blame for the app not working on older phones. The app requires a specific feature in the operating system, and while Google backported it to Android 6 (released in 2015) Apple only applied it to iOS 13 (released 2019). I guess Apple expect you to bin your iPhone after a year.
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Post by djp on Sept 27, 2020 21:03:56 GMT
Conspiracy theorists weird me out. It's like they think it's impossible for anything to happen that doesn't meet with their approval, and what makes it worse is that there's never any sense to the conspiracy. The usual claim is that "they" want to force everyone to do something that's unpopular so they fake a situation to make everyone want it, but (a) "they" are usually a group like the government that is the one group that doesn't actually need everyone's individual approval to do anything, and (b) the subject of the conspiracy is always something unpopular so the imagined conspiracy isn't even working. Somehow this makes sense to them. I find the 5G conspiracists particularly depressing because it shows how poor education is. Blaming the coronavirus on 5G because both happened within a year of each other is like trying a new restaurant one evening and then blaming them when your washing machine catches fire the next day because the washing machine was fine until you went there. If only stupidity had a high mortality rate. Its a combination of the naughty toddler who never grew up tantrum , the rugged independent frontiersman of 50s movies, and the paranoid delusional with severe mental issues. Add on those taught that all western governments were evil liars by his parents, teachers, or peer group, and people like icke . The net now allows them to find each other, and once they just start reading the same complete rubbish continually it confirms its truth to them. Its a shame they got rid of Boris's water cannon so the police could socially distance properly .
The answer is to fine them to the max. That would confirm their fantasy that the state is out to get them , but after a while the fines would hurt.
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Post by n1david on Sept 27, 2020 21:09:42 GMT
It looks like Apple's to blame for the app not working on older phones. The app requires a specific feature in the operating system, and while Google backported it to Android 6 (released in 2015) Apple only applied it to iOS 13 (released 2019). I guess Apple expect you to bin your iPhone after a year. That's not quite fair. iOS 13 is supported on phones as old as the iPhone 6S, which was released in September 2015. So the app will work on any iPhone that is 5 years old or newer. On Android, it's up to individual phone manufacturers to decide whether to push OS updates to their phones, so it is possible that there are Android phones that were bought more recently than 2015 which did not get Android 6 updates verified for them and so cannot run the app, and there will be Android phones which are older than 2015 where the manufacturers did validate the update and work fine with the app. |
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Post by jess173 on Sept 27, 2020 21:26:51 GMT
The app requires a specific feature in the operating system, and while Google backported it to Android 6 (released in 2015) Apple only applied it to iOS 13 (released 2019). I guess Apple expect you to bin your iPhone after a year. That is so very untrue. While iOS 13 was released in 2019 it is supported on all phones from the iPhone 6s and onwards. The iPhone 6s was released in 2015 so I donât see a reason why Apple should be âworseâ than Google here or to blame for anything... Edit: Oh, I see that n1david beat me to it. Sorry. ^^ |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 27, 2020 21:51:00 GMT
I kinda donât care whose âfaultâ it is. I know Iâm not the only one using an iPhone that canât support the app. It just seems a bit ridiculous to rely on an app for track and trace when you know it canât be used by some people with smartphones as well as all the people who donât have a smartphone at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 3:29:21 GMT
People seem to have missed the point about iOS and the app. The point I was making is that if the device doesn't support the required functionality then there's nothing the developers of the app can do about it. If you need to upgrade the operating system then you need to upgrade it. The app can't do something if the phone won't let it.
And what are they supposed to rely on if not an app? It's not as if they can expect everyone to manually exchange details with everyone they're close to for more than 15 minutes. It needs to happen automatically, so what better than a pocket-sized computer that many people carry with them all the time? It's true that not everybody has them but what else is there?
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Post by n1david on Sept 28, 2020 7:36:01 GMT
It seemed to me the point you were making was â It looks like Apple's to blame for the app not working on older phonesâ. It really isnât, given that older phones donât have the low-energy Bluetooth required. The OS canât magically add hardware functionality. The app isnât a perfect solution, but itâs one part of it - if weâd been dealing with this pandemic 20 years ago, think how much else would be different, not least the complete inability of the vast majority of people to WFH.
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 28, 2020 7:40:39 GMT
They're so confident they're not even trying to hide the lies any more:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 10:00:16 GMT
It seemed to me the point you were making was â It looks like Apple's to blame for the app not working on older phonesâ. It really isnât, given that older phones donât have the low-energy Bluetooth required. The OS canât magically add hardware functionality. The app isnât a perfect solution, but itâs one part of it - if weâd been dealing with this pandemic 20 years ago, think how much else would be different, not least the complete inability of the vast majority of people to WFH. The older phones would have to be really old by phone standards: BLE has been available since 2011 and 2012. But using the hardware also needs support from the operating system and Google seems to have made more of an effort than Apple in that respect. I don't know how easy it is to upgrade older iPhones to the latest version of iOS because I've never owned one, but the technical media have carried loads of reports of performance problems when people have tried so I suspect a lot of people would rather not make the attempt.
Anyway, it doesn't need everyone to use it. It just needs enough. When I was out for lunch on Saturday quite a few people were scanning themselves in using it so perhaps it may take off.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 28, 2020 10:03:22 GMT
People seem to have missed the point about iOS and the app. The point I was making is that if the device doesn't support the required functionality then there's nothing the developers of the app can do about it. If you need to upgrade the operating system then you need to upgrade it. The app can't do something if the phone won't let it. And what are they supposed to rely on if not an app? It's not as if they can expect everyone to manually exchange details with everyone they're close to for more than 15 minutes. It needs to happen automatically, so what better than a pocket-sized computer that many people carry with them all the time? It's true that not everybody has them but what else is there? What would they have done before smartphones existed? Would they have perhaps thought about an approach that didnât rely on smartphones? Couldnât they also do that now? Or are they just going to totally ignore the proportion of the population who canât use the app, and hope we donât spread the virus? Does anyone know? Has anyone actually explained what the strategy is for non-app users? Do we not matter? Could this be communicated to us in some way? Perhaps those signs and text messages telling everyone to download the app could explain what to do if you canât? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 28, 2020 10:12:10 GMT
People seem to have missed the point about iOS and the app. The point I was making is that if the device doesn't support the required functionality then there's nothing the developers of the app can do about it. If you need to upgrade the operating system then you need to upgrade it. The app can't do something if the phone won't let it. And what are they supposed to rely on if not an app? It's not as if they can expect everyone to manually exchange details with everyone they're close to for more than 15 minutes. It needs to happen automatically, so what better than a pocket-sized computer that many people carry with them all the time? It's true that not everybody has them but what else is there? What would they have done before smartphones existed? Would they have perhaps thought about an approach that didnât rely on smartphones? Couldnât they also do that now? Or are they just going to totally ignore the proportion of the population who canât use the app, and hope we donât spread the virus? Does anyone know? Has anyone actually explained what the strategy is for non-app users? Do we not matter? Could this be communicated to us in some way? Perhaps those signs and text messages telling everyone to download the app could explain what to do if you canât? This is what the email says |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 10:49:03 GMT
People seem to have missed the point about iOS and the app. The point I was making is that if the device doesn't support the required functionality then there's nothing the developers of the app can do about it. If you need to upgrade the operating system then you need to upgrade it. The app can't do something if the phone won't let it. And what are they supposed to rely on if not an app? It's not as if they can expect everyone to manually exchange details with everyone they're close to for more than 15 minutes. It needs to happen automatically, so what better than a pocket-sized computer that many people carry with them all the time? It's true that not everybody has them but what else is there? What would they have done before smartphones existed? Would they have perhaps thought about an approach that didnât rely on smartphones? Couldnât they also do that now? Or are they just going to totally ignore the proportion of the population who canât use the app, and hope we donât spread the virus? Does anyone know? Has anyone actually explained what the strategy is for non-app users? Do we not matter? Could this be communicated to us in some way? Perhaps those signs and text messages telling everyone to download the app could explain what to do if you canât? They would rely on human track and trace, they would ignore the excellent NHS version at local level that finds nearly all contacts and spend ridiculous amounts of money reinventing the wheel to create a private version (which they then name NHS track and trace in the hope that people wonât notice). They would employ a serial business failure to run this system, pay their employees to sit at home doing virtually nothing and claim that the whole thing is âworld beatingâ. In fact, itâs what they did anyway when the first app went down in flames because they gifted âridiculous amounts of moneyâ to their cronies to develop it. A good government would have invested early in the Apple/Google version and bolstered existing public infrastructure. They did the opposite but, then again, they are probably the worst government of my lifetime (from the first Wilson administration onwards). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 12:27:21 GMT
A good government would have invested early in the Apple/Google version and bolstered existing public infrastructure. They did the opposite but, then again, they are probably the worst government of my lifetime (from the first Wilson administration onwards). Ignoring what everyone else is doing and trying to go their own way before realising that everyone else is doing things the other way for a reason seems to be a habit of this government. But then Boris Johnson has always had something of a talent for supporting grand plans that quietly dissolve into nothing. Boris Island. Thames Garden Bridge. And then there's the British satellite navigation system that we're going to have because Brexit means we can't be part of Galileo. |
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Post by Jan on Sept 28, 2020 17:52:32 GMT
What would they have done before smartphones existed? Would they have perhaps thought about an approach that didnât rely on smartphones? Couldnât they also do that now? Or are they just going to totally ignore the proportion of the population who canât use the app, and hope we donât spread the virus? Does anyone know? Has anyone actually explained what the strategy is for non-app users? Do we not matter? Could this be communicated to us in some way? Perhaps those signs and text messages telling everyone to download the app could explain what to do if you canât? They would rely on human track and trace, they would ignore the excellent NHS version at local level that finds nearly all contacts and spend ridiculous amounts of money reinventing the wheel to create a private version (which they then name NHS track and trace in the hope that people wonât notice). They would employ a serial business failure to run this system, pay their employees to sit at home doing virtually nothing and claim that the whole thing is âworld beatingâ. In fact, itâs what they did anyway when the first app went down in flames because they gifted âridiculous amounts of moneyâ to their cronies to develop it. A good government would have invested early in the Apple/Google version and bolstered existing public infrastructure. They did the opposite but, then again, they are probably the worst government of my lifetime (from the first Wilson administration onwards). The Apple/Google version doesn't allow the NHS to access the data to identify local hotspots, which given the vanishingly small percentage of people (10-20%) who bother to self-isolate when notified means the usefulness of the current app is close to zero. Which is why several other countries such as France tried to go the centralised route which is theory is better and approaches at least the South Korean gold standard where there is no app but the government permanently tracks using a centralised database every single mobile phone in the country, along with other location data such as where you have used a credit card for payment and so on. Why can't we learn from South Korea you all wail ? That's why. App take-up in Germany is one of the highest in the world - just over 20% ! Not much to learn there either. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2020 6:19:33 GMT
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Post by jojo on Sept 29, 2020 10:08:19 GMT
The app, for all its limitations, is better than nothing. It won't work on older phones, because older phones don't have the required functionality, and then you've got people like my neighbour who doesn't have any kind of mobile phone - not even a old fashioned Nokia.
But hopefully the people who are out and about the most and most likely to be in contact with people that are harder to trace via track and trace, such as users of public transport and students, are also the people who have smart phones with the correct functionality.
I'm all for challenging the government on most things, and they deserve it, but I hope the scepticism with them doesn't prevent reasonable uptake of the app. A lot of the concerns being banded about are not accurate, or already out of date.
But the challenge isn't just to get people to download the app. They need to activate it and so on.
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