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Post by Mark on Sept 16, 2020 9:37:28 GMT
I just don't think people will stand for it. Genuinely don't. Time to get our lives back. And if the virus gave a crap what anyone wants that would be a useful attitude. If you have a solution that will allow us to get our lives back without hundreds of thousands of people losing theirs then let's hear it. Saying you don't want to put up with it is like saying you don't want to get older. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't change a thing. Until we have a cure every business has to work out a way to work around the necessities. If they can't, they can't. Nobody gets a free pass because life is difficult. Well we can all make our own decisions can't we. We can't sacrifice the wider economic structure because of a disease that is natural. Don't want covid? Then don't go out. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 16, 2020 10:10:42 GMT
And if the virus gave a crap what anyone wants that would be a useful attitude. If you have a solution that will allow us to get our lives back without hundreds of thousands of people losing theirs then let's hear it. Saying you don't want to put up with it is like saying you don't want to get older. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't change a thing. Until we have a cure every business has to work out a way to work around the necessities. If they can't, they can't. Nobody gets a free pass because life is difficult. Well we can all make our own decisions can't we. We can't sacrifice the wider economic structure because of a disease that is natural. Don't want covid? Then don't go out. That would be fine if there was a working test track and trace system, not to mention a Universal Basic Income so people can isolate/choose not to go out without fear of financial repercussions |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 10:51:49 GMT
Well we can all make our own decisions can't we. We can't sacrifice the wider economic structure because of a disease that is natural. Don't want covid? Then don't go out. That would be fine if there was a working test track and trace system, not to mention a Universal Basic Income so people can isolate/choose not to go out without fear of financial repercussions and where will the money for a Universal Basic Income come from? It doesn't grow on trees. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 16, 2020 11:05:23 GMT
There have been studies that have indicated that if the whole Benefits system was pared back it would free a significant portion of the costs. Benefits system would focus primarily on incapacity benefits and UBI paid/managed by the HMRC.
Would also expect a sliding income scale that the tax system would recoup the UBI payments for those in work with those in the 40% and above tax brackets not seeing a benefit. Not seen much discussion on this but could be easily managed through the tax system to ensure the influence (%) of UBI diminishes as salary increases.
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 16, 2020 11:09:58 GMT
That would be fine if there was a working test track and trace system, not to mention a Universal Basic Income so people can isolate/choose not to go out without fear of financial repercussions and where will the money for a Universal Basic Income come from? It doesn't grow on trees. Tax the billionaires, big corporations for a start. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 16, 2020 11:15:07 GMT
and where will the money for a Universal Basic Income come from? It doesn't grow on trees. Tax the billionaires, big corporations for a start. Yeah, good luck with THAT one! |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 16, 2020 14:00:54 GMT
And if the virus gave a crap what anyone wants that would be a useful attitude. If you have a solution that will allow us to get our lives back without hundreds of thousands of people losing theirs then let's hear it. Saying you don't want to put up with it is like saying you don't want to get older. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't change a thing. Until we have a cure every business has to work out a way to work around the necessities. If they can't, they can't. Nobody gets a free pass because life is difficult. Well we can all make our own decisions can't we. We can't sacrifice the wider economic structure because of a disease that is natural. Don't want covid? Then don't go out. You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? |
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Post by olliebean on Sept 16, 2020 15:25:34 GMT
That would be fine if there was a working test track and trace system, not to mention a Universal Basic Income so people can isolate/choose not to go out without fear of financial repercussions and where will the money for a Universal Basic Income come from? It doesn't grow on trees. While you're about it, ask yourself where did all the money we already have come from? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 15:52:50 GMT
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Post by Mark on Sept 16, 2020 17:19:36 GMT
Well we can all make our own decisions can't we. We can't sacrifice the wider economic structure because of a disease that is natural. Don't want covid? Then don't go out. You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. |
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Post by marcellus on Sept 16, 2020 17:28:45 GMT
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Post by marcellus on Sept 16, 2020 17:30:31 GMT
You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. |
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Post by marcellus on Sept 16, 2020 17:31:42 GMT
You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 16, 2020 17:34:36 GMT
You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. Wow |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 16, 2020 18:01:52 GMT
Worrying numbers today, ~20% increase in both cases an hospitalisations.
Take care, numbers are still relatively low, as they say wash your hands, keep your distance and my advice wear a face masks when in the company of strangers in an enclosed space.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:58:47 GMT
You must be livid at the latest testing failures of this government. We should really be on the streets about this shouldn't we? To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. Unlike most on here it seems, I understand your point of view. There are a lot of people who seem to be determined to ignore the bigger picture here and brush the other impacts of the last six months (mental health, missed diagnoses for other illnesses, economic poverty, suicide rates etc.) under the carpet until there are no coronavirus cases whatsoever. That won't be for a very long time, if ever, so life needs to adapt to the "new normal" of masks and hand sanitiser, but otherwise move on, otherwise coronavirus soon won't be our biggest problem (if indeed it currently really is). We can't all be hermits until there is a cure, like it or not. And that means cases will inevitably go up, but the aim has always been to keep them at a level that hospitals can cope with, not to eradicate the disease, and no-one is suggesting we are anywhere near hospital capacity breaking point at present. |
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Post by Mark on Sept 16, 2020 19:25:49 GMT
To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. Unlike most on here it seems, I understand your point of view. There are a lot of people who seem to be determined to ignore the bigger picture here and brush the other impacts of the last six months (mental health, missed diagnoses for other illnesses, economic poverty, suicide rates etc.) under the carpet until there are no coronavirus cases whatsoever. That won't be for a very long time, if ever, so life needs to adapt to the "new normal" of masks and hand sanitiser, but otherwise move on, otherwise coronavirus soon won't be our biggest problem (if indeed it currently really is). We can't all be hermits until there is a cure, like it or not. And that means cases will inevitably go up, but the aim has always been to keep them at a level that hospitals can cope with, not to eradicate the disease, and no-one is suggesting we are anywhere near hospital capacity breaking point at present. Mentally, I was past breaking point during lockdown with everything that was going on. I was going on walks and finding a quite spot just to stop and cry. I did EVERYTHING that was asked of me by the government. I won’t do it again. I’m sorry if that sounds selfish but I’ve done my bit, I won’t sacrifice my own mental well-being any longer. And it keeps coming back to my own job - if it’s safe enough for me to be in an enclosed aircraft with 200+ people from the Covid hotspot of the world, it’s sure sure as hell just as safe enough to meet a few friends for a meal. |
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 16, 2020 19:44:09 GMT
Edited to correct the mis-attributed quote... Mark said: "To be quite honest I don’t give a crap. They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible." My response was: Finding cases due to mass testing is certainly worthwhile because identifying them translates into preventing those folks from spreading the virus. (And since they now think that up to 71% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic, the majority of these people would never show up in hospital admissions and would go around unwittingly infecting other people.) |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 16, 2020 19:49:26 GMT
They could test a million people and find a hundred thousand cases but unless that translates into mass hospital admissions, the world needs to go on in the most normal way as possible. Finding cases due to mass testing is certainly worthwhile because identifying them translates into preventing those folks from spreading the virus. (And since they now think that up to 71% of people who have the virus are asymptomatic, the majority of these people would never show up in hospital admissions and would go around unwittingly infecting other people.) Did I write that? |
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Post by zahidf on Sept 16, 2020 19:55:05 GMT
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 16, 2020 19:58:56 GMT
if it’s safe enough for me to be in an enclosed aircraft with 200+ people from the Covid hotspot of the world, it’s sure as hell just as safe enough to meet a few friends for a meal. Neither are particularly safe. It could be argued that the risk of working is unavoidable... eating indoors in a restaurant with friends is avoidable. (Reports coming out of California are finding a high correlation between eating at restaurants and catching COVID, even when people reported similar behaviors other than eating out. And other reports show there are fewer cases of airplane-related transmission than you'd expect. I assume the precautions most airlines are taking are helping with that.) |
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Post by sfsusan on Sept 16, 2020 20:02:16 GMT
Sorry, the Quick Quote somehow attributed Mark's statement to you. I'll see if I can correct it. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 16, 2020 20:23:05 GMT
I think we need to be careful and not judge people on the way they cope with the situation we find ourselves in. The first thing is to find the facts so that we can make rational decisions on the risk we place ourselves and more importantly the risk we place others and the mitigations we can take to reduce transmission. I live alone and work from home and apart from a few random conversations all my interactions have been with work colleagues over the internet for the last 7 months. There have been dark moments and as soon it was possible started going out to museums, galleries and now the Theatre to at least see the outside world and reduce the feeling of house arrest. Every time I go out, I do so as if I am contagious, will adhere to social distancing and whenever in an enclosed space wear a face mask and as I do not know many people or have family in London meeting up with more than six people is not something that I have to worry about. Mark I am sure understands how to minimise the risk to other people, most probably better than most due to his job and will take the care to socialise safely and maintain his well being even though it may sound selfish. Living as hermits is not an option for most of us, socialising is a human necessity, what we need to do is act appropriately when outside our homes, this is the issue as many don’t and these are the ones who put us all at risk. Being outside your home is not necessarily a risk, being in a pub or restaurant is not necessarily a risk, the way we behave in these environments determines the risk. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 20:31:36 GMT
if it’s safe enough for me to be in an enclosed aircraft with 200+ people from the Covid hotspot of the world, it’s sure as hell just as safe enough to meet a few friends for a meal. Neither are particularly safe. It could be argued that the risk of working is unavoidable... eating indoors in a restaurant with friends is avoidable. (Reports coming out of California are finding a high correlation between eating at restaurants and catching COVID, even when people reported similar behaviors other than eating out. And other reports show there are fewer cases of airplane-related transmission than you'd expect. I assume the precautions most airlines are taking are helping with that.) Being with friends is likely to be dangerous because people feel safe and consequently relax, while those surrounded by strangers are going to be instinctively more on their guard. People tend to be terrible at judging risk at the best of times, and being in a place that feels safe while surrounded by those you know hits all the triggers for misjudging the situation. I'd expect being with friends at home is the most dangerous of all because it combines all the risk of mixing with others with still air, poor ventilation, and a low perception of danger. (People who have friends round really ought to be wearing masks, but how many people are?) |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 17, 2020 5:45:02 GMT
Hi Mark sorry to hear you didn't cope well in lockdown and based on what you say about aeroplanes then I really don't blame or judge you. Hugs ❤️❤️❤️ 👍 |
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