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Post by viserys on Sept 17, 2020 6:08:09 GMT
I've just returned from a holiday (which included two three-hour-flights on which I didn't feel unsafe) and two things occured to me: a) just how much of a relief it felt to NOT be exposed to the daily barrage of Corona drama for a week - yes, there are safety protocols and mandatory masks in Greece as well, but as I don't switch the telly on during a vacation and only briefly skim the news on my phone once a day, it really felt like a massive break which did a world of good for my mental health.
b) One of my holiday reads was a book set among showbiz people during the second world war and one thing that really jumped out at me was one character asking "Do people really want to see a comedy with all the terrible things happening now?" and another character answering something like "Yes, now more than ever, they want distraction, laughter, forget about reality for 2-3 hours in the theatre". And I think that's one of the worst things about the Corona restrictions - the kind of escapism and distraction that three hours in a theatre, cinema, concert venue, etc. provide is not happening at the moment. The party crowd can and will meet for illegal parties no matter what, but I think there are countless people going up the walls because all those regular outlets are closed. Allowing them to open - within reason and in keeping with safety protocols - isn't just necessary to allow them to survive (and keep thousands of jobs going) but also to provide people with much needed escapism.
Well, that's just my two cents anyway.
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Post by lou on Sept 17, 2020 10:38:03 GMT
Neither are particularly safe. It could be argued that the risk of working is unavoidable... eating indoors in a restaurant with friends is avoidable. (Reports coming out of California are finding a high correlation between eating at restaurants and catching COVID, even when people reported similar behaviors other than eating out. And other reports show there are fewer cases of airplane-related transmission than you'd expect. I assume the precautions most airlines are taking are helping with that.) Being with friends is likely to be dangerous because people feel safe and consequently relax, while those surrounded by strangers are going to be instinctively more on their guard. People tend to be terrible at judging risk at the best of times, and being in a place that feels safe while surrounded by those you know hits all the triggers for misjudging the situation. I'd expect being with friends at home is the most dangerous of all because it combines all the risk of mixing with others with still air, poor ventilation, and a low perception of danger. (People who have friends round really ought to be wearing masks, but how many people are?) There really needs to be more communication about and emphasis on the need to social distance at houses where you aren’t part of the household. I keep asking the people I know that are complaining about the new restrictions if they social distance when they do but they are all a bit sheepish. And I’ve seen the Facebook photos! I think people think it’s ok and normal so don’t have to when but it’s this situation they need to be more vigilant. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 18, 2020 8:49:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 9:38:56 GMT
As crazy as that is, it isn’t even the craziest of the ideas they are now floating. Local lockdown in all of Lancashire but excepting Blackpool(!) being one completely without foundation or logic. Of course certain people won’t flock to the one place they can do the things denied elsewhere, creating a crucible of virus exchange. Why on earth would that happen? None of those yet reach the level of treating schools as being magically warded against the virus, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 9:42:27 GMT
Circuit breaks being considered, pubs and restaurants could be asked to close early. I'm almost certain this won't lead to people necking more drinks in the shorter space of time. Nope, not at all. I would hope people in general wouldn't be that stupid, although I know some are. It's like they think the restrictions are there just to piss them off, so if they find a way to negate the effect of the restrictions they have in some way "won". But you can't cheat reality. The restrictions are there for a reason. If they don't have the required effect there will need to be stronger restrictions.
Humanity has this astonishing talent for shooting itself in the foot and then thinking "Where did that pain come from? Better shoot it away."
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Post by clair on Sept 18, 2020 9:48:13 GMT
I'm not sure how they can say that 'most workplaces will remain open' within that - do they not know that theatres, concert halls, pubs, restaurants, museums and so on and so on are also workplaces? I wish they would say 'offices' which is what they mean as those not working in office jobs are clearly just doing it for fun in their minds
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Post by marcellus on Sept 18, 2020 17:25:57 GMT
"Coronavirus: PM does not want another lockdown but says second wave 'inevitable' Boris Johnson has said he does not want to put the country in another national lockdown but warned the government may need to "intensify things to help bring the rate of infections down". He added: "We're now seeing a second wave coming... clearly we are going to keep everything under review. "As the disease progresses of course we're going to have to take further measures." With COVID-19 cases now doubling every seven to eight days, the government is looking at introducing nationwide restrictions for a short period to try to "short-circuit" the virus and slow the spread of the disease. Proposals being worked up for such a "circuit break" could see essential travel to schools and workplaces continuing, but restaurants and bars would shut - or perhaps run on restricted hours - and different households would be asked not to mix." So that's pretty much that, then. Boris Johnson was trying to get people back into city centre offices only two weeks ago: if even he's now conceding things are getting worse, there's no doubt about it. Terrible news for theatres and the arts, but they rank low on the government's list of priorities: lower than restaurants and bars, which are talked of as likely to be temporarily shut again. Hard, therefore, to see them being left open. It's a great shame for those, like Glyndebourne and ENO, or the National Theatre and Nimax, which have been working to open their doors again - it sounds like that effort is going to be wasted. Probably financially worse for them to have spent money on plans that go to waste than it would have been to stay shuttered this winter. But the blame for that I guess lies heavily on the government, which has been wretchedly inconsistent and unhelpful from start to finish throughout this crisis. news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-pm-does-not-want-another-lockdown-but-says-second-wave-inevitable-12075357 |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 18, 2020 21:04:03 GMT
What is the point of all that if schools and workplaces remain open? Close everything but let members of several hundred households mix together every day. I know things can't stay shut forever but at the same time if we're not careful the virus will run rampant.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 21:15:33 GMT
What is the point of all that if schools and workplaces remain open? Close everything but let members of several hundred households mix together every day. I know things can't stay shut forever but at the same time if we're not careful the virus will run rampant. Well how can you keep them closed? There isnt any sign of a vaccine or a cure, so what is happening now will happen any time things are opened up. Society and the economy can't continue in eternal lockdown. No-one likes it, but this is the new normal and we just have to live with it. The priority is keeping within hospital capacity, not reducing cases to zero. |
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Post by zahidf on Sept 18, 2020 21:44:11 GMT
Well it doesn't surprise me. Track and trace has been useless and the Tory govt are a bunch of incompetents.
Lockdown happens when the govt has failed to contain it. They employed the hapless dido harding and this is what happens.
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Post by marcellus on Sept 18, 2020 23:04:59 GMT
What is the point of all that if schools and workplaces remain open? Close everything but let members of several hundred households mix together every day. I know things can't stay shut forever but at the same time if we're not careful the virus will run rampant. The point? The point is about keeping numbers manageable, so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed.
The less you have open - the fewer opportunities for social engagement you have - the less transmission of the virus there will be.
It's been on the cards as a possibility for months - Chris Whitty was warning back in July that, once schools resumed in September, the Government would probably need to compensate for the bump in numbers by closing some other 'reopened' things. It's just happening faster, and more dramatically, than was anticipated.
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Post by marcellus on Sept 18, 2020 23:11:07 GMT
Well it doesn't surprise me. Track and trace has been useless and the Tory govt are a bunch of incompetents. Lockdown happens when the govt has failed to contain it. They employed the hapless dido harding and this is what happens. Agreed. Indoor performances over this autumn/winter was always improbable, but an adequate test and trace regime might have made it viable...now, though, with cases already increasing thanks to their failures, it's clear nothing more can be safely opened right now, and we're likely to see new restrictions.
The Government should have provided a credible arts support package back in March, while warning that there could be no indoor performances between September '20 and March 21. Instead of leaving the arts to starve, then convincing them to go ahead with pouring money into obviously doomed plans for autumn/winter producing.
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Post by olliebean on Sept 19, 2020 7:19:22 GMT
It's been on the cards as a possibility for months - Chris Whitty was warning back in July that, once schools resumed in September, the Government would probably need to compensate for the bump in numbers by closing some other 'reopened' things. It's just happening faster, and more dramatically, than was anticipated. My recollection is that Whitty was advising the closure of other things in preparation for opening schools, so as to prevent a big jump in the infection rate - not waiting for the big jump to happen and then playing catch-up. Once again, the government is reacting to the spread of the virus after the fact, rather than acting preemptively to prevent it. |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 19, 2020 10:08:49 GMT
Circuit breaks being considered, pubs and restaurants could be asked to close early. I'm almost certain this won't lead to people necking more drinks in the shorter space of time. Nope, not at all. I would hope people in general wouldn't be that stupid, although I know some are. It's like they think the restrictions are there just to piss them off, so if they find a way to negate the effect of the restrictions they have in some way "won". But you can't cheat reality. The restrictions are there for a reason. If they don't have the required effect there will need to be stronger restrictions.
Humanity has this astonishing talent for shooting itself in the foot and then thinking "Where did that pain come from? Better shoot it away."
I keep thinking about all the people who keep going on about Sweden getting it right in keeping their economy open, who clearly don’t know about the restrictions on alcohol sales there. They have a totally different approach to alcohol and just don’t have the same drinking culture. If you want to copy Sweden’s Coronavirus response you have to adopt their alcohol restrictions too - people can’t stick to guidelines when they’ve been drinking. |
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Post by olliebean on Sept 19, 2020 12:23:52 GMT
The "moonshot" contract has been given to Deloitte. So that's another massive load of public money spaffed up the wall, to coin a phrase.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 15:37:25 GMT
I would hope people in general wouldn't be that stupid, although I know some are. It's like they think the restrictions are there just to piss them off, so if they find a way to negate the effect of the restrictions they have in some way "won". But you can't cheat reality. The restrictions are there for a reason. If they don't have the required effect there will need to be stronger restrictions.
Humanity has this astonishing talent for shooting itself in the foot and then thinking "Where did that pain come from? Better shoot it away."
I keep thinking about all the people who keep going on about Sweden getting it right in keeping their economy open, who clearly don’t know about the restrictions on alcohol sales there. They have a totally different approach to alcohol and just don’t have the same drinking culture. If you want to copy Sweden’s Coronavirus response you have to adopt their alcohol restrictions too - people can’t stick to guidelines when they’ve been drinking. Unfortunately it's a minority of people ruining it for the rest. None of the pubs I go to are "drinking" pubs; they're all about food and occasionally socialising, and I've never seen anyone get seriously drunk. The last time I went to a drinking pub was the Wetherspoon's that was our local at work, and that was many years ago. But they all get tarred with the same brush.
It seems the outbreak in Bolton that has led to a partial lockdown was largely caused by one person who returned from holiday and went on a pub crawl with his mates instead of quarantining. One person's selfishness put hundreds at risk and cost the economy millions.
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Post by theatreian on Sept 19, 2020 15:57:41 GMT
The British do have this drinking culture where all social distancing goes out the window. I have often thought this about the British as it is usually us who cause any trouble abroad in holiday resorts due to alcohol. Why are we so different to other Europeans? It is a question I have often asked myself but never really come to an answer.
Go to other European countries and the young ones are in civilised groups chatting, not out on a bender. I know I am generalising but there is a real problem here with alcohol and also the selfish attitude of do what you like whatever the impact on anyone else. This impacts on the virus as no matter what anyone says every individual has their part to play. If we all obeyed the 'rules' I feel sure we would not be in such a position as we are now. Having said that the virus is not going to go away until a vaccine, but at least if we all acted responsibly then maybe the figures would not be quite so bad.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 19, 2020 20:11:32 GMT
Less than eight weeks since Johnson's go for a patriotic pint message. The wrong man for the job
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 19, 2020 20:36:30 GMT
Surely Universal Basic Income is going to be a necessity now? Some people haven't had any income since March, the end of furlough will financially devastate a huge number of people as unemployment figures rise.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 19, 2020 21:27:25 GMT
I believe as unemployment grows and more people become dependent on the Welfare State it will be the outcome that could cause the Government the greatest pain.
People have paid in all their lives and will now find that despite the myths and persecution of those on benefits it has been eroded to a level that is impossible for most people to live on.
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 19, 2020 22:27:31 GMT
Less than eight weeks since Johnson's go for a patriotic pint message. The wrong man for the job Agreed. when pubs re-opened it was advertised as New Year without fireworks. Then the eat out to help out scheme introduced by the chancellor, was only going to go one way and we now see that in the sharp rises in cases. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 19, 2020 22:34:31 GMT
Walking past the pubs between the Bridge and Blackfriars on my way home there was little evidence of the rule of six being observed.
Alcohol that well known inhibition suppressor is an infectious disease’s best friend.
The train was also busier than expected, all I could see were wearing face masks and any groups seemed to be less than six in total but maybe not in familial bubbles.
The real test will be when university students return, students from all around the Country congregating in halls and shared housing with hormones and time aplenty.
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 19, 2020 22:38:28 GMT
With less than a hundred fines handed out for not wearing masks by the police so far.
The NHS done a terrific job managing this crisis and putting their own lives on the line, going into work, that is exactly why the British public went outside to give them a well deserved round of applause. However the police have been the exactly opposite to this and are doing an appalling job in non enforcement of masks. The police need start doing their jobs, not just when they are on a earner doing overtime.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2020 23:00:01 GMT
With less than a hundred fines handed out for not wearing masks by the police so far. The NHS done a terrific job managing this crisis and putting their own lives on the line, going into work, that is exactly why the British public went outside to give them a well deserved round of applause. However the police have been the exactly opposite to this and are doing an appalling job in non enforcement of masks. The police need start doing their jobs, not just when they are on a earner doing overtime. I’m afraid the police have far better things to do than chase up people not wearing masks, some of whom may legitimately be exempt. In my corner of the UK, they’ve recently been dealing with XR, BLM, the far right and anti-mask idiots in Trafalgar Square, often while their numbers are reduced due to colleagues suffering from... yep, coronavirus. Quite possibly passed on to them by the afore-mentioned thoughtless groups they’ve had to deal with at very close quarters. All while also managing the ongoing terrorist threat, gang violence, drug crime, sex crime, increased domestic violence, and supporting vulnerable people on the streets. Which of these things should they stop doing to spend time instead talking to people not wearing face coverings? In an ideal world, we’d have enough coppers to do all of this. But we’re not in an ideal world. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 19, 2020 23:42:15 GMT
With less than a hundred fines handed out for not wearing masks by the police so far. The NHS done a terrific job managing this crisis and putting their own lives on the line, going into work, that is exactly why the British public went outside to give them a well deserved round of applause. However the police have been the exactly opposite to this and are doing an appalling job in non enforcement of masks. The police need start doing their jobs, not just when they are on a earner doing overtime. I’m afraid the police have far better things to do than chase up people not wearing masks, some of whom may legitimately be exempt. In my corner of the UK, they’ve recently been dealing with XR, BLM, the far right and anti-mask idiots in Trafalgar Square, often while their numbers are reduced due to colleagues suffering from... yep, coronavirus. Quite possibly passed on to them by the afore-mentioned thoughtless groups they’ve had to deal with at very close quarters. All while also managing the ongoing terrorist threat, gang violence, drug crime, sex crime, increased domestic violence, and supporting vulnerable people on the streets. Which of these things should they stop doing to spend time instead talking to people not wearing face coverings? In an ideal world, we’d have enough coppers to do all of this. But we’re not in an ideal world. It is the polices’ job to enforce the law as set out by parliament. |
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