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Post by sfsusan on Apr 12, 2022 13:37:20 GMT
I honestly, genuinely despair. I hate him. I loathe him with every single fibre of my being and I don't know how much worse he has to be for him to go. Heck, we Americans couldn't get rid of Trump even after bringing him up on charges... twice! And he's STILL stunningly popular.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2022 13:41:15 GMT
Also, fining a billionaire is frankly insulting. If the only penalty for lawbreaking is a fine, then law is optional for the rich.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 12, 2022 16:03:42 GMT
Like everyone on here, I hope that Covid (god I didn’t want to use that word again) is in the rear view mirror and we can move on with our lives.
However if a new deadly variant of Covid mutated and Boris tells the country we must go into another lockdown, how is anyone going to take him seriously?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 12, 2022 17:00:05 GMT
Did he resign immediately?
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 12, 2022 18:50:45 GMT
It says an awful lot about what sort of person he is that it takes police action to get an apology out of him, although I'm not sure it really qualifies as an apology if it isn't offered unprompted. If you have to be forced into an apology you don't regret what you did. You regret that you didn't get away with it.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 12, 2022 21:34:58 GMT
God I loathe him; but I loathed him already. This only makes a difference if it moves the needle amongst Tory voters.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 12, 2022 21:39:38 GMT
God I loathe him; but I loathed him already. This only makes a difference if it moves the needle amongst Tory voters. This. Imagine having voted for him?
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 13, 2022 8:07:05 GMT
His excuse that it didn't occur to him that he broke the rules is so absurd. If that's the case then he is in no fit state to be in charge of anything if his grasp of things is so limited.
When are we taking to the streets then?
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Post by maggiem on Apr 13, 2022 14:30:01 GMT
We take to the streets on May 5th, then vote for councillors other than Tories.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 13, 2022 16:13:48 GMT
We take to the streets on May 5th, then vote for councillors other than Tories. Strange feeling in my stomach since reading this post. Like Mark Thomas' elderly crusty rambler, I've been to the cupboard to make sure my protest boots are still there. 'Never thought I would have to wear you in anger again'. Feels like Grosvenor Square again. Inner city riots of the 1980's. Feels like the miners strike and Wapping all over. Poll tax demonstrations and Blairs anti-war demonstrations.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 14, 2022 9:11:11 GMT
Dan Stevens doing magnificent work on The One Show:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 0:54:46 GMT
A lot depends on the quality of the opposition leader as the Tories still retained power in 1992 election.
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Post by talkingheads on May 13, 2022 10:03:40 GMT
Vile beyond words.
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Post by The Matthew on May 13, 2022 10:53:34 GMT
Gassy, wet, expensive, upper class and pointless. Sounds about right.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 11:22:27 GMT
Still a lot to play out over Partygate and Currygate but with the economic problems, Ukraine, the Northern Ireland issue then the potential of both leaders going would just cause more issues.
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Post by Jon on May 13, 2022 11:25:58 GMT
Let's hoping the bottle was just signed by Boris and not drunk by Boris....
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Post by Jan on May 13, 2022 15:23:11 GMT
Not really, just a feeble joke by a local Conservative fundraiser. If you think it’s vile beyond words what do you have left say about some of the Russian actions in Ukraine ?
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Post by Jan on May 13, 2022 15:28:16 GMT
We take to the streets on May 5th, then vote for councillors other than Tories. Strange feeling in my stomach since reading this post. Like Mark Thomas' elderly crusty rambler, I've been to the cupboard to make sure my protest boots are still there. 'Never thought I would have to wear you in anger again'. Feels like Grosvenor Square again. Inner city riots of the 1980's. Feels like the miners strike and Wapping all over. Poll tax demonstrations and Blairs anti-war demonstrations. Not a notably successful list of protests - did any of them achieve their aim ?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 15:34:48 GMT
Oliver Dowden is the Tory Party Chairman and former Culture Secretary - the chap who looks like Matthew Cottle. I get what you say about the use of vile Jan, it is all in a context. Like some people cannot pay bills, Ukraine is having the hell bombed out of it but some people choose to protest at Oil Depots etc. It is totally how we view things.
If you wanted a very cynical view of Partygate and Currygate is it the harder Right Wing of the Tory Party pushing their agenda through. Boris was useful be win an election but is now a liability and must go. Funny who the Angela Rayner/Basic Instinct story comes out and then Kier has this hanging over him. Are the Tory media trying to trash Angela and put people in mind that she could be in power as it is hard to get stuff on Starmer and then they get this on Starmer who dsaid he would resign if fined. Angela has said likewise too but it then creates a battle for control of the Labour Party again. The Tories might ousr Boris but a bit like the Monarchy they would do whatever is needed to remain in power and fall behind aa new leader. Whilst Labour may have a moral arguement about which way to go and some Labour activists would rather follow theor principles than be in power!
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Post by Jan on May 13, 2022 15:55:25 GMT
Oliver Dowden is the Tory Party Chairman and former Culture Secretary - the chap who looks like Matthew Cottle. I get what you say about the use of vile Jan, it is all in a context. Like some people cannot pay bills, Ukraine is having the hell bombed out of it but some people choose to protest at Oil Depots etc. It is totally how we view things. If you wanted a very cynical view of Partygate and Currygate is it the harder Right Wing of the Tory Party pushing their agenda through. Boris was useful be win an election but is now a liability and must go. Funny who the Angela Rayner/Basic Instinct story comes out and then Kier has this hanging over him. Are the Tory media trying to trash Angela and put people in mind that she could be in power as it is hard to get stuff on Starmer and then they get this on Starmer who dsaid he would resign if fined. Angela has said likewise too but it then creates a battle for control of the Labour Party again. The Tories might ousr Boris but a bit like the Monarchy they would do whatever is needed to remain in power and fall behind aa new leader. Whilst Labour may have a moral arguement about which way to go and some Labour activists would rather follow theor principles than be in power! I know who Oliver Dowden is but that is entirely irrelevant - he donated the bottle months ago and didn’t write the description on the card.
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Post by Jan on May 13, 2022 15:59:10 GMT
God I loathe him; but I loathed him already. This only makes a difference if it moves the needle amongst Tory voters. This. Imagine having voted for him? Imagine having voted for the alternative - a bunch of anti-Semitic Putin apologists advising a leader who has now had the Labour whip removed. Just to clarify, I tend to the view that Boris, the head of the Civil Service, and every single civil servant and SPAD who received a FPN should resign or be fired. Given Starmer’s posturing over the matter when he suggested a police investigation was enough to justify Boris resigning I think he should resign too.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2022 17:35:21 GMT
I'd also like to know why police so eager to break up Lockdown meet ups didn't act in such a manner when they were guarding Boris or Kier?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 14, 2022 16:43:27 GMT
This. Imagine having voted for him? Imagine having voted for the alternative - a bunch of anti-Semitic Putin apologists advising a leader who has now had the Labour whip removed. Just to clarify, I tend to the view that Boris, the head of the Civil Service, and every single civil servant and SPAD who received a FPN should resign or be fired. Given Starmer’s posturing over the matter when he suggested a police investigation was enough to justify Boris resigning I think he should resign too. Ouch, I felt I touched a nerve there. I feel your pain
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Post by olliebean on May 14, 2022 21:32:49 GMT
This. Imagine having voted for him? Imagine having voted for the alternative - a bunch of anti-Semitic Putin apologists advising a leader who has now had the Labour whip removed. Corbyn was by no means perfect, but Anti-Semitism in the party reduced under his leadership, and the Tories are way more compromised wrt Russia than Corbyn ever was. You appear to have fallen, like many others, for a very successful smear campaign.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2022 12:23:24 GMT
Jeremy Corbyn mobilised that 40% vote in 2017 and did seem to appeal to the younger voters but would he ever have been electable to that floating 20% of voters which possibly switch amongst the main 3 UK wide parties and decide most elections?
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Post by kathryn on May 15, 2022 16:31:27 GMT
Imagine having voted for the alternative - a bunch of anti-Semitic Putin apologists advising a leader who has now had the Labour whip removed. Corbyn was by no means perfect, but Anti-Semitism in the party reduced under his leadership, and the Tories are way more compromised wrt Russia than Corbyn ever was. You appear to have fallen, like many others, for a very successful smear campaign. That’s not what Jewish members of the party said, re: Corbyn. Like it or not, he just was not a good leader - he didn’t bring Labour together. Which is not terribly surprising - opposition is his natural stance; when Labour were in actually in power he opposed his own party’s government! Labour have got to let Corbyn’s failed leadership go and move on if they ever want to get the Tories out. And lord knows getting this bunch of corrupt incompetents out of government is really important!
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 16, 2022 17:32:04 GMT
Corbyn was by no means perfect, but Anti-Semitism in the party reduced under his leadership, and the Tories are way more compromised wrt Russia than Corbyn ever was. You appear to have fallen, like many others, for a very successful smear campaign. That’s not what Jewish members of the party said, re: Corbyn. Like it or not, he just was not a good leader - he didn’t bring Labour together. Which is not terribly surprising - opposition is his natural stance; when Labour were in actually in power he opposed his own party’s government! Labour have got to let Corbyn’s failed leadership go and move on if they ever want to get the Tories out. And lord knows getting this bunch of corrupt incompetents out of government is really important! But as Olliebean said, factually true. But Corbyn was voting against War in Iraq, trident, benefit cuts, ID cards, tuition fees, Terrorism Act etc He was right to vote against the Blair/Brown governments. Does your statement only work if the list of policies he voted against you didn't agree with are mentioned? I was told 75% of the time he voted against the Labour whip was during the Blair/Brown government. Quite telling that with Corbyn an MP under eight years of a Thatcher administration. Presumably figure slightly skewed by Thatchers huge majorities and maybe not as many whipped votes
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Post by vdcni on May 16, 2022 17:40:04 GMT
Yeah you can make the case that despite the Anti-Semitism the Tories are way more racist overall (which they don't get picked up on in the same way as it's just assumed they will be) and indeed more compromised by their association with Russia than Labour but you can't play down Corbyn's significant flaws. I note that while they are pressuring Wimbledon to ban Russian players they aren't handing back the big sums of money they received from Putin's associates or revealing what actually happened with Lebvedev.
Was Corbyn a better option than Johnson - absolutely, but still a concerning choice. But Corbyn's not relevant anymore no matter how many times the Tories try to use him as an attack line. Starmer and his cabinet may not be inspiring but compared to the Tories right now they look like giants.
I saw an interesting point on Twitter today, the ministers on the media rounds have been saying all these completely obvious and unhelpful things about the cost of living crisis - buy own brand food, work more hours, get a better paid job - because they don't have any actual policies to do anything about it. They've got nothing else to contribute.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 18:26:39 GMT
Corbyn is in the past but is the ideologistic battle for the Labour Party?
Actually Labour being out of power during the last couple of years is probably better for them. Like if they had won in 1992 and with Black Wednesday I could have seen Kinnock pannicking and the fallout not being good.
The Tories had a thumping majority form 1983 to 1992 so whichever way lobby door JC in his best polytechnic lecturers suit had walked didn't make any difference.
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Post by kathryn on May 16, 2022 20:35:41 GMT
The Tories had a thumping majority form 1983 to 1992 so whichever way lobby door JC in his best polytechnic lecturers suit had walked didn't make any difference. It didn’t, no, but that wasn’t really the point. Leadership as a quality requires the ability to persuade, to compromise with people when necessary to achieve your aims and cajole others into doing what you believe is the best for all. Blair and Brown may not have always had the best policies but they did have the ability to do that. Corbyn didn’t. He just doesn’t understand how to do it. Now many find that an admirable quality, but it made him a very poor leader of the opposition. I don’t know why his acolytes cannot acknowledge that he failed as a leader even of his own party. He certainly did not persuade otherwise-Conservative voters to switch to Labour - which is what he needed to do to win. Move on, guys. Look to the future - it’s the only way.
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