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Post by dontdreamit on Sept 6, 2020 13:10:30 GMT
I reckon no social distancing but mask wearing still being mandatory is a good compromise I would be happy with this. I’ve only been out of shielding for a month, but getting back to the Open Air Theatre showed me how much I need theatre for my own well-being. If everyone is wearing masks it mitigates some of the risks and then it becomes a choice we can all make individually. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 13:54:23 GMT
It was too early to be able to do this before now, it's a simple as that. I'm sorry that many panto and musical productions had to be cancelled already but they were clearly not in a position to be able to move forward with these plans before now. It's unfortunate but that's just how it happened. Many theatres and producers should be in a position to still put something on over the festive period if this plan proves accurate and so it is better than nothing. It might not be the full scale pantomimes and musicals they were planning but we could see perhaps old ready to go productions revived or Christmas concerts and the like, which would be very beneficial to everyone involved. I know my local theatre had things ready to go at short notice even in the summer if they theatres could suddenly re-open so i'm pretty sure that theatres and producers are equally prepared for the festive period. It was already announced that social distancing in theatres was going to be reviewed in November so any producer or theatre worth their salt should already have a plan up their sleeve for November and December at least. I agree. Revisiting previous productions should be very do-able. Look at how quickly they got JCS at the Open Air up and running. I also see no reason why West End shows that still have a cast/crew/band (so not Cam Mac ones lol) can't get back up within a month or so if it is allowed. |
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Post by zahidf on Sept 6, 2020 14:06:57 GMT
From the sounds of it, everybodys talking about Jamie is ready to go
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Post by Jon on Sept 6, 2020 14:13:02 GMT
I agree. Revisiting previous productions should be very do-able. Look at how quickly they got JCS at the Open Air up and running. I also see no reason why West End shows that still have a cast/crew/band (so not Cam Mac ones lol) can't get back up within a month or so if it is allowed. Not just the Open Air, the Bridge was able to reopen within three weeks of getting the greenlight as well. I would guess The Woman in Black will be able to reopen quickly as well and maybe the SFP season at the Ambassadors. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 6, 2020 14:16:22 GMT
I reckon no social distancing but mask wearing still being mandatory is a good compromise The only issue I can see is that this relies on 100% compliance with mask wearing and that is unlikely, just going from the local cinema, where people take them off as soon as they sit down. |
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Post by zahidf on Sept 6, 2020 14:19:55 GMT
I reckon no social distancing but mask wearing still being mandatory is a good compromise The only issue I can see is that this relies on 100% compliance with mask wearing and that is unlikely, just going from the local cinema, where people take them off as soon as they sit down. Nah doesn't need 100% compliance. 80/85% is enough. At the bridge yesterday, seems like it 100% mask compliance |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 6, 2020 14:24:56 GMT
If there's no social distancing though, will masks actually make a difference? What with brushing past people, people having drinks etc?
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Post by zahidf on Sept 6, 2020 14:29:47 GMT
If there's no social distancing though, will masks actually make a difference? What with brushing past people, people having drinks etc? Yeah, if its properly left on the nose and mouth, it would prevent a lot of infections. You'd have people drinking e.t.c, but around London at least, id say most people are doing it properly. |
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Post by zahidf on Sept 7, 2020 9:13:04 GMT
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Post by zahidf on Sept 7, 2020 9:28:32 GMT
This will be live in case anyone wanted to watch!
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Sept 7, 2020 11:34:12 GMT
Well I wouldn't be comfortable with a full capacity audience, even with 100% masks, but that's just me. And definitely not the way we go here in Germany. Will probably try a local theatre at some point, but with social distancing.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Sept 7, 2020 19:12:42 GMT
Unfortunately the talk about allowing full audiences again coincides with signs that cases are increasing significantly again, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this knocked on the head for a little while longer.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 8, 2020 8:48:41 GMT
committees.parliament.uk/event/1878/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/The main push from Lloyd-Webber seems to be for a provisional normal re-opening date, so that events can plan to be ready to go on that date. That seems like a good idea, but as a provisional date it can still all go tits-up so I'm not really sure what great benefit there is with that provisional date.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 9:05:15 GMT
That seems like a good idea, but as a provisional date it can still all go tits-up so I'm not really sure what great benefit there is with that provisional date. Anything can change at any time, so to say "why bother" because of that is basically an argument that no-one should ever plan anything in advance, which is nonsense. Having a date allows the relevant people and companies to allocate resources and justify spending so that they can get their venues and shows prepared. If they are then allowed to open, great, if not, then at least they can in some aspects be ready at shorter notice later on. |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Sept 8, 2020 12:25:02 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54070322Listen to the word of the preacherman, talking of the apocalypse and the end of civilisation again!  I'm really getting annoyed about him talking about it as if theatre owners are the most important part of the sector, while others stress the importance of the furlough scheme and the trouble of the individual artists. Also threats like "He also suggested he could move his production of Cinderella from the UK to a different location "where people are being a little more helpful"." Just love that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 13:14:14 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54070322Listen to the word of the preacherman, talking of the apocalypse and the end of civilisation again! I'm really getting annoyed about him talking about it as if theatre owners are the most important part of the sector, while others stress the importance of the furlough scheme and the trouble of the individual artists. Also threats like "He also suggested he could move his production of Cinderella from the UK to a different location "where people are being a little more helpful"." Just love that. Well theatre owners are economically the most important part as without them there would be no theatres to employ the artists. There will always be a surplus of drama school grads and other performers, but not everyone is wealthy enough to run a theatre. The inevitable consequence of what he is saying is the trouble for individual artists - it's so obvious it doesn't even need to be said. There is no point whatsoever in emphasising the importance of a furlough scheme that won't be extended. And the threat of going elsewhere is simply commercial negotiation 101, so to criticise that is basically to criticise him for trying to get the government to do something, which seems a bit counter-productive to me! |
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Post by djp on Sept 8, 2020 16:19:35 GMT
If there's no social distancing though, will masks actually make a difference? What with brushing past people, people having drinks etc? The mask isn't there to protect you with any high degree of success.The evidence is marginal we were told - its just something that may help on that margin. its there to stop some globules of sneeze and cough containing high volumes of virus flying out of you and onto he person 1- 2 metres away. The problem you have left is the smaller aerosol particles hanging in the air and moving much further. And as you say there's still the virus on the handrail, doors, toilet seat, pan, tap and soft surfaces. If you can smell perfume or smoke wearing a mask its not on tight enough to stop small airborne particles getting to you around it, , or the small particles are walzing through it. You could sit there in an ffp3 mask which does stop 99% of aerosols - , but then you would melt before act two. Distancing makes you less vulnerable to aerosol particles because they have dispersed over distance , but the more belt you put behind them in No good Deed the further they go .
Thats before you have to risk the train to get to London, find its crowded, meet the barrier resident virus, or the tube handrail one, and the 100 people who decide to get on your tube carriage, and without being sat next to someone with a cough when you arrive...
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Post by djp on Sept 8, 2020 16:50:17 GMT
committees.parliament.uk/event/1878/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/The main push from Lloyd-Webber seems to be for a provisional normal re-opening date, so that events can plan to be ready to go on that date. That seems like a good idea, but as a provisional date it can still all go tits-up so I'm not really sure what great benefit there is with that provisional date. Government has no idea what will be happening in November - its up to the virus, how well umpteen other countries control their virus, and the behaviour of the people here spreading it.
Its a particularly silly demand for ALW to be making this week of all weeks when its becoming clear that things could go either way, and do it quickly - as with the current number of infections going up by a factor of two in days. And its more silly of him , when it may soon may become clear that relaxing on schools, universities and offices, at the same time, may be crassly irresponsible. We may already be relaxing too much. The demand only makes sense as an insurance ploy to trigger the insurance if the government changes the date , But what insurer is going to risk his money on the high probability of a second wave being avoided?
Nothing is going to make theatre safe enough - unless you go outdoors , or properly socially distance ,and mask and ventilate , or the vaccine turns up. And until the vaccine arrives , the audience may just not risk it, and the tourists will be absent.
The problem isn't helped by the suggestion in the Sunday papers that government is looking at a date in November when testing will replace distancing. This seems nonsensical as the testing capacity is struggling with the admin burden and unpredictability of existing testing demand - even when the capacity has reached 170k a day - which is more than almost any other country. With NHS staff , care staff , care home residents , teachers and pupils all arguing they should have regular tests , there's just not going to be the capacity to add tens of thousands of theatre goers daily. With current testing you also miss the developing cases- so testing beforehand doesn't keep the virus out , and getting the results back to the theatres would mean testing at too early a date to catch the virus. You would need almost instant testing that picked up transmissible levels of infection and ask people to come in the day or hours before to be tested , and then socially distance the testing queue and isolate the people in the queue and the testing staff if you found a case. It can't be done now, and it may never work.
The question is why the government might propose it, when they are simultaneously ruling out testing as an alternative for airline passengers . it looks like right hand and left hand having no brain to co-ordinate them, or a defective one..
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Post by olliebean on Sept 8, 2020 22:14:44 GMT
If there's no social distancing though, will masks actually make a difference? What with brushing past people, people having drinks etc? The mask isn't there to protect you with any high degree of success.The evidence is marginal we were told - its just something that may help on that margin. its there to stop some globules of sneeze and cough containing high volumes of virus flying out of you and onto he person 1- 2 metres away. The problem you have left is the smaller aerosol particles hanging in the air and moving much further. And as you say there's still the virus on the handrail, doors, toilet seat, pan, tap and soft surfaces. If you can smell perfume or smoke wearing a mask its not on tight enough to stop small airborne particles getting to you around it, , or the small particles are walzing through it. You could sit there in an ffp3 mask which does stop 99% of aerosols - , but then you would melt before act two. Distancing makes you less vulnerable to aerosol particles because they have dispersed over distance , but the more belt you put behind them in No good Deed the further they go .
Thats before you have to risk the train to get to London, find its crowded, meet the barrier resident virus, or the tube handrail one, and the 100 people who decide to get on your tube carriage, and without being sat next to someone with a cough when you arrive...
Actually, in addition to reducing the likelihood of you infecting someone else, there is quite strong evidence that wearing a suitable face covering will protect you too - not from catching the virus entirely, but by reducing the amount of it that gets into your body, which means your immune system is far better able to cope and your likelihood of getting seriously ill from it is significantly reduced. |
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Post by talkingheads on Sept 8, 2020 22:23:54 GMT
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Post by djp on Sept 9, 2020 2:05:12 GMT
The mask isn't there to protect you with any high degree of success.The evidence is marginal we were told - its just something that may help on that margin. its there to stop some globules of sneeze and cough containing high volumes of virus flying out of you and onto he person 1- 2 metres away. The problem you have left is the smaller aerosol particles hanging in the air and moving much further. And as you say there's still the virus on the handrail, doors, toilet seat, pan, tap and soft surfaces. If you can smell perfume or smoke wearing a mask its not on tight enough to stop small airborne particles getting to you around it, , or the small particles are walzing through it. You could sit there in an ffp3 mask which does stop 99% of aerosols - , but then you would melt before act two. Distancing makes you less vulnerable to aerosol particles because they have dispersed over distance , but the more belt you put behind them in No good Deed the further they go .
Thats before you have to risk the train to get to London, find its crowded, meet the barrier resident virus, or the tube handrail one, and the 100 people who decide to get on your tube carriage, and without being sat next to someone with a cough when you arrive...
Actually, in addition to reducing the likelihood of you infecting someone else, there is quite strong evidence that wearing a suitable face covering will protect you too - not from catching the virus entirely, but by reducing the amount of it that gets into your body, which means your immune system is far better able to cope and your likelihood of getting seriously ill from it is significantly reduced. yes diluting it does help. i can't find the source but i think the figure was about 40% might get stopped by an ordinary mask - but if you are over 60 you don't want to risk the other 60%. i am also minded by the bit in Magic goes wrong - where complete silence is called for and the next five minutes rely on the constant coughing from different members of the audience . Who is going to stay sitting next to those people when the mid winter sniffles and coughs come on? Do you get a refund from ALW if you cry off with a cough? |
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Post by djp on Sept 9, 2020 2:27:16 GMT
Well that was spectacularly bad timing by ALW calling for a date to end social distancing the same day as meetings of more than 6 are made illegal- because the virus is spreading too fast. If they have any sense universities will be announcing they are closing their doors and lecturing by net again soon too.
I don't get ALW's point. He may not have cash in his current bank accounts to pay his key staff and retain his actors, or lead actors, but he should be sitting on lots of money and investment in his retained profits accounts.It takes some doing to be worth hundreds of millions and have no money available to cover a year's expenses. And while it may take months to get Cinderella cast, up and operational, most long running London shows surely just need a check that everything is still working safely, and a short work up , if you keep your staff on, And you can do that if use the furlough scheme and pay something towards wages yourself from reserves. It would be mean, and poor business, not to.
The real battle seems to be to get key national assets , like Bletchley museum , or the Albert Hall and theatres backed with enough money to hold on and restart. We need to see them all actually receiving the money promised , and the Treasury tearing up the exclusions list. And thenthe big need is to get furlough extended in time and coverage And that's going to be easier to argue when it becomes impossible to run any form of show as social distancing is tightened up , not relaxed, Today's announcement made the case for furlough being extended for some sectors, like theatre, even more powerful. That campaign should be the main focus, not finding wizard ways to open and just infect fewer of the audience
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 3:51:38 GMT
Actually, in addition to reducing the likelihood of you infecting someone else, there is quite strong evidence that wearing a suitable face covering will protect you too - not from catching the virus entirely, but by reducing the amount of it that gets into your body, which means your immune system is far better able to cope and your likelihood of getting seriously ill from it is significantly reduced. yes diluting it does help. i can't find the source but i think the figure was about 40% might get stopped by an ordinary mask - but if you are over 60 you don't want to risk the other 60%. i am also minded by the bit in Magic goes wrong - where complete silence is called for and the next five minutes rely on the constant coughing from different members of the audience . Who is going to stay sitting next to those people when the mid winter sniffles and coughs come on? Do you get a refund from ALW if you cry off with a cough? This is the source I saw yesterday: aatishb.com/maskmath/There's a video as well, early in the article, that's probably easier for people who don't enjoy maths. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2020 6:49:41 GMT
Most long running London shows surely just need a check that everything is still working safely, and a short work up , if you keep your staff on, And you can do that if use the furlough scheme and pay something towards wages yourself from reserves. It would be mean, and poor business, not to. Yeah I agree - as I've said before, I don't really understand why this wouldn't be the case. The long runners are like well oiled machines. And though they are frozen in time at the moment, they should be able to spring back into action fairly easily. Even those that have let cast go, I would imagine in the current employment market the long runners could get back 100% people that have done the show before, reducing rehearsal time to 3-4 weeks. Running concurrently, FOH spruce, set maintenance and cleaning, rehearsals and marketing ticket sales - I don't see why one month is unrealistic. |
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Post by woobl on Sept 9, 2020 8:15:41 GMT
Most long running London shows surely just need a check that everything is still working safely, and a short work up , if you keep your staff on, And you can do that if use the furlough scheme and pay something towards wages yourself from reserves. It would be mean, and poor business, not to. Yeah I agree - as I've said before, I don't really understand why this wouldn't be the case. The long runners are like well oiled machines. And though they are frozen in time at the moment, they should be able to spring back into action fairly easily. Even those that have let cast go, I would imagine in the current employment market the long runners could get back 100% people that have done the show before, reducing rehearsal time to 3-4 weeks. Running concurrently, FOH spruce, set maintenance and cleaning, rehearsals and marketing ticket sales - I don't see why one month is unrealistic. Shows rely heavily on advances. I don’t think 4 weeks would be enough of a buffer to keep things moving in the event of a slow week. |
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