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Post by crowblack on Jun 16, 2020 11:42:08 GMT
I think after weeks of NT at Home, I think it’s only fair to have paid encores in the cinemas of things that would sell really well like Present Laughter, Fleabag, All My Sons to but a few. Would be a good revenue stopgap for many of the companies who were involved. The NT lives we've been to at cinemas around my home town have had generally much older than average audiences. With coronavirus still circulating and a second spike looming, I can't see most of them flocking back for something like this, especially not when it seems theatres are now more open to the possibilities of home streaming back catalogues and new work. Even if they're fit-and-healthy older people, many have friends who are in high risk groups or have actually died so are more aware of the very real threat posed than younger people, who think they're immortal. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 16, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
Btw in the last couple of days I've seen a few cast announcements for movies/TV filming (they hope) later this year.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2020 17:58:31 GMT
Everyone speaks about how necessary social distancing is and 20% capacity etc etc. Why is that not required on air-planes which can still go at 100% capacity with everyone wearing a mask> It is a bit confusing - I don't think social distancing is actually law though (someone correct me if wrong). And as we know government have only advised up to 4th July. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:18:35 GMT
www.whatsonstage.com/london-theatre/news/les-miserables-mary-poppins-hamilton-closed-2021_51791.htmlVery sad news. Is this in a way Cam Mac throwing down the gauntlet to the government to finally do something to talk him out of doing this? Or is he committed to doing this now? (Off topic, but he has always seemed to control more day to day operations of Phantom than RUG/ALW. It is an LW theatre though so you’d have thought ALW would want a say in this. ALW has been massively more positive and taken a “wait and see” approach throughout, compared to CM’s predictions long into the future).
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Post by sleepflower on Jun 17, 2020 12:27:18 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 12:30:08 GMT
Also - this should totally be in the mainstream news on TV.
If I hear one more thing about football lol!
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 12:53:35 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth... He had a net worth of 1.1 billion. People really don’t understand what ‘net worth’ means. It’s the value of all of his businesses and assets, after running costs and minus the debt secured on it. It doesn’t mean he has a billion in the bank as cash. So no, while his businesses cannot operate - are literally making a net loss - he’s not a billionaire. The value of the theatre business at the moment is a negative against his personal wealth and assets. Typically the only way anyone realises their net worth in cash is if they sell up completely and retire. Or die, and have all their assets sold. No-one is going to buy a theatre business at the moment. |
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Post by Mark on Jun 17, 2020 13:40:54 GMT
He's also not a charity. Difficult decisions now to protect the long term viability of his business.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 14:03:47 GMT
Yeah. People have this knee-jerk reaction that owners of a business should personally bail it out, but it’s financially illiterate. In most cases they can’t - hardly anyone has enough personal wealth to keep a loss-making business afloat for any length of time. And even if they could, why would they? They will end up with no money and a valueless business that will fail anyway. May as well pull the plug now and save your money to invest in a business that is viable.
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Post by hannechalk on Jun 17, 2020 14:07:32 GMT
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Post by duncan on Jun 17, 2020 14:08:43 GMT
Isn't CM a billionaire? Leaves a sour taste in the mouth... He had a net worth of 1.1 billion. People really don’t understand what ‘net worth’ means. It’s the value of all of his businesses and assets, after running costs and minus the debt secured on it. It doesn’t mean he has a billion in the bank as cash. So no, while his businesses cannot operate - are literally making a net loss - he’s not a billionaire. The value of the theatre business at the moment is a negative against his personal wealth and assets. Typically the only way anyone realises their net worth in cash is if they sell up completely and retire. Or die, and have all their assets sold. No-one is going to buy a theatre business at the moment. At last someone else who gets it. When people say the likes of CM, Branson, Musk, Bezos are minted beyond belief you have to remember its not cash in hand its the sum of their assets such as buildings or shareholdings. And those sums are to me always inflated because as noted they'd have to liquidate everything to get that money. Look at Wrestling guru Vince McMahon, he's estimated to have lost $500 million dollars worth of wealth against his shareholding in WWE since the turn of the year and this caused him to liquidate the American Football league he had, once the share price dropped his "wealth" also drops and he didn't have the liquidity to continue to fund the league or be able to borrow the money at reasonable terms to continue funding his vanity project. CM may have been a billionaire in January but right now he owns a whole load of buildings which were positive assets but which are now essentially worthless and whilst they remain on his books he'll have to be shelling out for upkeep etc. The only way CM makes money at the moment is to sell all his theatres for housing and none of us want that. Yes its terrible news for everyone involved but CM needs to ensure he's actually in a position to be able to restart these productions as soon as possible rather than go into debt, administration or liquidation. If CM were to go into debt you'd be looking at him doing a Kenwright on everything. |
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Post by viserys on Jun 17, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 14:35:09 GMT
It’s why you’re always ‘worth’ more dead than alive.
The likes of a Michael Jackson was in crippling debt towards the end of his life, but as soon as he died and the value of his assets could be realised the debts were paid off, and his estate started generating income without the cost of supporting his lifestyle - it’s now incredibly valuable.
Net worth is only really useful for someone who is working out whether to lend you money and what interest rate to charge you. The more you are worth the more sure they are that they’ll get their money back if something disastrous happens. There’s a reason why Cam Mac doesn’t want to load his business down with debt - lots of businesses end up going under because their creditors get worried, and force a sale of assets to get their money back. If all the creditors do that at once and you can’t pay them all back then you’re bankrupt.
I hope this is part of a political push on the government.
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Post by Mark on Jun 17, 2020 14:45:47 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up. Hope it is! I don’t see any reason if the virus is under control by then it shouldn’t be possible. Again, it was about getting to a sustainable level, not eradicating it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:28:34 GMT
It's the mix of 'show' and 'business' again. Audiences focus on the former but even subsidised theatres (because they are answerable to government) have to prioritise the latter. Just because a part of the audience wants to go into a theatre now it doesn't mean that it can happen. On running costs alone it isn't viable (didn't Sonia Friedman suggest she needs 75% houses now?) and that's before you even start thinking about the safety aspect.
Theatre will return with something that is economically viable, for CM his shows won't be able to plan for that for a very long time. The more adaptable the space, the better. Maybe the Barbican could adapt some of the larger open areas or use the outdoors areas. Somewhere like the BAC could move things into the Great Hall which is massive compared to the shows they often have but it's their and they can spread the audience far and wide. Victoria Palace? It's only good for being what it currently is, and that's not enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:40:55 GMT
Sad times but completely expected. I think the obvious long runners will come back but I do wonder if anything will take advantage and just bow out, never to return - maybe something like The Mousetrap?
I sense a lot of fundraisers once the theatres reopen, with the big names wheeled out to sell tickets. Ian McKellen, for example, bringing his one man show back. I dare say it would be relatively easy (and quick) to put on a few Shakespeare plays too - most of the usual suspects already know the parts anyway and I assume an easy way of putting people back to work (and making some money).
I’m trying to think if there’s any recent big sellout plays that could be revived quickly too for quick cash injections, but I’m coming up a bit blank. Because the NT are probably best placed to do something like this.
A silver lining on all this could be that a lot of big names could find themselves free in 2021 and happy to lend a hand getting the industry back on its feet (and it’s names that will get bums on seats). A short 12 week run (with maybe 4 weeks rehearsal) isn’t a huge commitment and I dare say there’ll be more than a few household names with such windows of availability.... but of course you can’t plan anything until the government remembers the arts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:49:27 GMT
Yeah. People have this knee-jerk reaction that owners of a business should personally bail it out, but it’s financially illiterate. In moste cases they can’t - hardly anyone has enough personal wealth to keep a loss-making business afloat for any length of time. And even if they could, why would they? They will end up with no money and a valueless business that will fail anyway. May as well pull the plug now and save your money to invest in a business that is viable. Well said - the kneejerk reaction from people towards 'millionaires' and 'billionaires' shows literally no understanding at all of how businesses work and the difference between personal wealth and that related to business. These people aren't there to pointlessly throw good money after bad. And what they do with their personal money is no more our business than it is to judge how much money other board members spend on theatre. Cameron's recent negativity has annoyed me but he and ALW have brought more pleasure to millions over the years as well as employment to thousands, and the UK theatre scene would have been an overwhelmingly poorer place without them. He is a massive asset to UK theatre and is trying to protect it for the future. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 15:53:19 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up. Yeah - and that is what I wondered. Cam Mac can be slightly diva ish sometimes - does he REALLY think he'll be closed until 2021 or is it a last ditch attempt to get the government to sit up and notice (which would be great if it paid off!) 2021 is such a long way off. How on earth can we know now how things will be in the Autumn! |
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Post by Jon on Jun 17, 2020 15:59:57 GMT
Sad times but completely expected. I think the obvious long runners will come back but I do wonder if anything will take advantage and just bow out, never to return - maybe something like The Mousetrap? I sense a lot of fundraisers once the theatres reopen, with the big names wheeled out to sell tickets. Ian McKellen, for example, bringing his one man show back. I dare say it would be relatively easy (and quick) to put on a few Shakespeare plays too - most of the usual suspects already know the parts anyway and I assume an easy way of putting people back to work (and making some money). I’m trying to think if there’s any recent big sellout plays that could be revived quickly too for quick cash injections, but I’m coming up a bit blank. Because the NT are probably best placed to do something like this. A silver lining on all this could be that a lot of big names could find themselves free in 2021 and happy to lend a hand getting the industry back on its feet (and it’s names that will get bums on seats). A short 12 week run (with maybe 4 weeks rehearsal) isn’t a huge commitment and I dare say there’ll be more than a few household names with such windows of availability.... but of course you can’t plan anything until the government remembers the arts. I think To Kill A Mockingbird will be a huge hit and I believe it was selling really well before the pandemic hit. Sonia Friedman is planning to bring back Jerusalem which if Mark Rylance decides to reprise the role of Rooster could also be a success. |
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Post by kathryn on Jun 17, 2020 16:02:43 GMT
Well said - the kneejerk reaction from people towards 'millionaires' and 'billionaires' shows literally no undertaking at all of how businesses work and the difference between personal wealth and that related to business. These people aren't there to pointlessly throw good money after bad. It's pure envy. It makes about as much sense as complaining that someone who has been furloughed is treating it as a 'free holiday', because you've continued to work. What else are they meant to do?! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 16:04:22 GMT
It's very tragic from where I sit - on the continent, where theatres plan to re-open from late August/early September without any social distancing. I know the UK is still lagging behind a few weeks, but surely it's an incredibly drastic step to decide NOW to not open until 2021. Sounds to me like it's more of a desperate plea to shake politics up. Yeah - and that is what I wondered. Cam Mac can be slightly diva ish sometimes - does he REALLY think he'll be closed until 2021 or is it a last ditch attempt to get the government to sit up and notice (which would be great if it paid off!) 2021 is such a long way off. How on earth can we know now how things will be in the Autumn! Come the end of summer the fear is that there’ll be a second wave as we go through autumn and winter. With people not working, or fearful of where money might come from over the next 12 months, I just can’t imagine people going to the theatre. Throw in the fact the tourist trade will be all but gone and it becomes so much more than just being ‘allowed’ to start back up again - so CM could be weighing up all these factors and just basically wanting to play it safe and see where things are in 6 to 9 months down the line. I could be completely wrong, but I think smaller fringe theatres with a loyal local audience (and less seats) might weather the storm a little better than bigger commercial ventures. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 16:08:30 GMT
Sad times but completely expected. I think the obvious long runners will come back but I do wonder if anything will take advantage and just bow out, never to return - maybe something like The Mousetrap? I sense a lot of fundraisers once the theatres reopen, with the big names wheeled out to sell tickets. Ian McKellen, for example, bringing his one man show back. I dare say it would be relatively easy (and quick) to put on a few Shakespeare plays too - most of the usual suspects already know the parts anyway and I assume an easy way of putting people back to work (and making some money). I’m trying to think if there’s any recent big sellout plays that could be revived quickly too for quick cash injections, but I’m coming up a bit blank. Because the NT are probably best placed to do something like this. A silver lining on all this could be that a lot of big names could find themselves free in 2021 and happy to lend a hand getting the industry back on its feet (and it’s names that will get bums on seats). A short 12 week run (with maybe 4 weeks rehearsal) isn’t a huge commitment and I dare say there’ll be more than a few household names with such windows of availability.... but of course you can’t plan anything until the government remembers the arts. I think To Kill A Mockingbird will be a huge hit and I believe it was selling really well before the pandemic hit. Sonia Friedman is planning to bring back Jerusalem which if Mark Rylance decides to reprise the role of Rooster could also be a success. I agree on both fronts. I was also thinking Ian McKellen’s King Lear was a huge sell out too - could he be tempted back? Maybe even Godot with Patrick Stewart? All you need is an empty stage and an audience for that one lol. |
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 17, 2020 16:42:20 GMT
I feel very downcast today. I genuinely never believed that we'd see the year out without shows being back, but unfortunately i'm starting to now think that I've been too optimistic. Unfortunately, whilst i can see theatre being back in some way, these big musicals at the end of the year i was genuinely thinking i would still be seeing up to the last few days...i now cannot see going ahead.
I don't know what that will mean for the local theatres that i have huge personal connection to if they cannot put on their big Christmas musicals and pantomimes, which i now accept is increasingly inevitable . I dread to think.
The thought of not seeing any major theatre until next year, the thought of not stepping foot in my local theatre until next year, the thought of what could be the disastrous result of all this, it's getting to me today. For the first time. The optimism has gone.
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Post by richey on Jun 17, 2020 16:58:06 GMT
I feel very downcast today. I genuinely never believed that we'd see the year out without shows being back, but unfortunately i'm starting to now think that I've been too optimistic. Unfortunately, whilst i can see theatre being back in some way, these big musicals at the end of the year i was genuinely thinking i would still be seeing up to the last few days...i now cannot see going ahead. I don't know what that will mean for the local theatres that i have huge personal connection to if they cannot put on their big Christmas musicals and pantomimes, which i now accept is increasingly inevitable . I dread to think. The thought of not seeing any major theatre until next year, the thought of not stepping foot in my local theatre until next year, the thought of what could be the disastrous result of all this, it's getting to me today. For the first time. The optimism has gone. You're not alone feeling like that. The news today from Cam Mac has been a real downer |
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Post by djp on Jun 17, 2020 17:03:27 GMT
Yeah - and that is what I wondered. Cam Mac can be slightly diva ish sometimes - does he REALLY think he'll be closed until 2021 or is it a last ditch attempt to get the government to sit up and notice (which would be great if it paid off!) 2021 is such a long way off. How on earth can we know now how things will be in the Autumn! Come the end of summer the fear is that there’ll be a second wave as we go through autumn and winter. With people not working, or fearful of where money might come from over the next 12 months, I just can’t imagine people going to the theatre. Throw in the fact the tourist trade will be all but gone and it becomes so much more than just being ‘allowed’ to start back up again - so CM could be weighing up all these factors and just basically wanting to play it safe and see where things are in 6 to 9 months down the line. I could be completely wrong, but I think smaller fringe theatres with a loyal local audience (and less seats) might weather the storm a little better than bigger commercial ventures. Indeed. The basic problem though is that theatres fall over on all the basic science. Enclosed spaces mean high viral loads.The recent cases from Germany show enclosed spaces as a source of new infection hotspots even with low levels of infection nationally. Voice production produces stronger flows of air for longer distances - why we had the cases of large choirs almost all gone down with covid 19. Poor airflow and negligible air conditioning in theatres make that problem worse. Social distancing is itself related to time spent at that distance, and even if I metre was tolerable for a minute, it wouldn't be for two or three hours. And if you are there for 2 to 3 hours the poor provision of toilets in cupboard sized attic and basement spaces anyway, becomes a potentially deadly one.
Cameron seems to fail to understand that there is no possibility of getting firm dates on what could happen - when its blindingly obvious that its all dependent on what the threat level is at the time.It looks like a cheap excuse . You patently won't open if there's a second wave, or a local hotspot even if things look like they were going the right way when you decide a plan.
Its not only the lack of tourists which will make current price levels untenable and empty the seats. The out of town audience will have to make a risk assessment . And they will then have to work out how they can travel reliably when trains have limited capacity eat ,when restaurants may have even more limited capacity, and when they have got use to working from home in the suburbs and home counties. And the winter cold and flu season not only complicates any second wave, it means you have a problem getting anyone to sit in a theatre of coughing people, and you need a system of refunds for when people don't want to turn up with what might be a cough or covid . That drives your economics even more into the red.
As the culture secretary said today, you need his study group of professionals from the industry to look at very innovative solutions . Tents, open air , large screens, online theatres all need exploring. And you still may have to wait for the vaccine
In the meantime , perhaps a bit of imagination should be applied and we could start using/renting empty theatre spaces and hotel conference rooms, to meet the demand for extra teaching spaces. And start employing actors- who come with degrees and/or useful skills applicable to English, English Literature, drama, music, physical education, and dance as teaching assistants to meet additional demand there too.
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