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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2020 10:05:56 GMT
I can see Broadway streaming shows in the UK to replace the need for Brits to go the USA. I doubt anyone in the uk will go to new york just to be a tourist for a very long while. Places like Majorica will only be for tourists who can go by boat or private jet - many don't think cheap flights will resume on economic or environmental grounds, Sorry to be harsh but the world has changed permanently a lot more than many on here are ready to accept. Agreed. I don't see it as doom mongering as some have said. I see it as being realistic and not getting my hopes up too high too soon. I want theatre to get back to normal as much as anyone but I think we're going to have to accept a new normal for quite a while.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 10:42:29 GMT
I doubt anyone in the uk will go to new york just to be a tourist for a very long while. I will. It's one of my favourite places in the world and when it is safe to do so I will be supporting the tourism industry there It is ludicrous to think that most places won't open up again in some capacity as soon as they reasonably can - too much of the economy and too many livelihoods depend on tourism for there to be any other outcome. Of course some people will be more cautious than others or otherwise incapable of going anywhere anytime soon, but for every one of those there is someone else who is fortunate enough to remain in employment, is saving a lot of money and will be first on a plane when travel does resume. I'll certainly be scheduling a NY trip and others as soon as I can. The question isn't whether there will be people travelling, it is when will that travelling be possible.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 12, 2020 10:43:42 GMT
We are in a situation not seen since the time of Shakespeare and the plague closures and as then Theatre continued and people got on with their lives and the new normal even though there was a Civil War and Theatre closures not long after, but that is another story and one for historians to muse upon.
To plan you need a few firm assumptions the most important being when is it safe to open and once open the confidence to invest. Using the War terminology used too often in my opinion, a war ends on a specific date a contagion does not.
At the moment we are being prepared for a protracted loosening and tightening of restrictions as cases increase or decrease and this will continue until enough of the population have immunity through affliction or vaccination.
(An aside the Government is still likely supporting herd immunity, a lot of the businesses still open and especially construction and the gig economy employ primarily young healthy low risk workers who if become infected will recover and the risk of these people infecting the at risk population reduced by identifying those at high risk and ordering them to self-isolate through fear with targeted individual letters unlike the generic one most of us received and also the focus on an antibody test to confirm immunity over vaccination)
A vaccine even if developed in 6 months will take a long time to manufacture, distribute and administering and the nationalistic protection as per PPE will be much worse so vaccination is in reality a distant hope.
Therefore the biggest hurdle is the uncertainty of how long before the next closure and therefore the willingness to risk capital.
As above I expect for the first 18 months or so we will see simple low cost bankable productions which can recoup their costs quickly.
Expect lean, cheap and adaptable productions of the ‘favourites’ which favour the smaller Theatres to predominate initially.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 12, 2020 10:49:35 GMT
I have a trip to New York booked for late September (and then on to Canada) and if the situation is improved enough to allow travel and the theatres are open I’ll definitely be going.
And I’ll be back in the theatre in London too. Streaming/NT Live is just not the same.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 11:00:47 GMT
Trials took a few years. I suppose they could rush one for this virus if they look vaguely promising but we could end up with something unsafe as a result. On regional theatre, I'm not talking about places like the Royal Exchange, Bristol Old Vic etc., of course they will be fine and their clear identities will pull them through. Places like Manchester Opera House will struggle for quite a while with the economic hit taken but I'm really talking about the places that get the tribute concerts, the occasional half week of a tour. A number of those are quite likely to shutter. I can only go on my own first hand experiences regarding Ebola, which focused on Sierra Leone. Unless my mind plays tricks on me, the vaccine was effectively deployed in communities along with some combination therapies. Of course, if your experience was different, you will have a different perspective. Medical trials happen in stages, and part of the trial phasing is to do patient/populace trials (as I'm sure you know). Compare Ebola to the time it took to create a Malaria vaccine (20+ years) and you also know that the timeline varies from disease to disease. The positive about Covid 19 is that science has already worked out the basics, hence why so many vaccine candidates are in the pipeline already. Every vaccine is effectively a coded solution to a medically encrypted disease - scientists have to reverse engineer a vaccine based on how the disease impacts the human body, exposing the patient to just enough of a hit to build immunity without endangering their health or life. Advances in genomics have accelerated vaccine development as the body is now effectively mapped. Stuff that used to take years can now be done in days. Regarding theatres shuttering, again I disagree... The reason being that houses and spaces can (and will) flex to meet the requirements of the new world - whether that is capacity caps, or seating distances. So today's 1000 seater may become a 600 seater, 2000 seater may become a 1000 seater, mid-size venue in a small town that gets tribute concerts or half a week of a tour repositions itself as a venue for up and coming artists/comedians/cabaret. My point is that theatre has reinvented itself for eternity, and it will take a lot more than a pandemic virus to wipe out the purpose and function of a theatre within society (whether West-End, Broadway, local town or end of the pier). On vaccines, yes there is a lag between trials and approval of that vaccine, the five years is the time of that happening, when a limited number of people (those who volunteer or, in extremis, those at the most serious risk) will be given it. I think we are at cross purposes on the other point, you are right in that theatre will exist and just adapt itself to the new reality. My point is that existing organisations and, in a number of cases, existing buildings will cease to be a part of that. It’s simple economics, that many of these will now fail. Then there will be a gap in the market and others, and indeed the same people as well, will rush to fill that gap. It provides a great opportunity as well, in that what existed can now be adapted to the new reality. The ones who fail will do what they did before, the ones that succeed will adapt. At the small theatre company end this happens all the time anyway. Short lives, moving on, It’s not difficult to see that spreading to larger concerns. Places like the NT, RSC, they’re going to be fine. The economic situation expected to occur now points to many businesses failing and theatre will be no exception to that. Theatre will survive, but theatres and companies will not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 11:01:34 GMT
kathryn It's really not - really grateful they are doing it and it gives me something to look forward to each week, but it's just enough to produce an itch and not enough to scratch it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 11:14:51 GMT
We are in a situation not seen since the time of Shakespeare and the plague closures and as then Theatre continued and people got on with their lives and the new normal even though there was a Civil War and Theatre closures not long after, but that is another story and one for historians to muse upon. To plan you need a few firm assumptions the most important being when is it safe to open and once open the confidence to invest. Using the War terminology used too often in my opinion, a war ends on a specific date a contagion does not. At the moment we are being prepared for a protracted loosening and tightening of restrictions as cases increase or decrease and this will continue until enough of the population have immunity through affliction or vaccination. (An aside the Government is still likely supporting herd immunity, a lot of the businesses still open and especially construction and the gig economy employ primarily young healthy low risk workers who if become infected will recover and the risk of these people infecting the at risk population reduced by identifying those at high risk and ordering them to self-isolate through fear with targeted individual letters unlike the generic one most of us received and also the focus on an antibody test to confirm immunity over vaccination) A vaccine even if developed in 6 months will take a long time to manufacture, distribute and administering and the nationalistic protection as per PPE will be much worse so vaccination is a distant hope. Therefore the biggest hurdle is the uncertainty of how long before the next closure and therefore the willingness to risk capital. As above I expect for the first 18 months or so we will see simple low cost bankable productions which can recoup their costs quickly. Expect lean, cheap and adaptable productions of the ‘favourites’ which favour the smaller Theatres to predominate initially. Yes, big shows with long lead times are too much of a risk when there is a high possibility of the same restrictions needing to happen again for the next wave (maybe in Autumn but this virus doesn’t appear to be very seasonal). On your aside, very much so. I would suggest that many others, apart from those who are being shielded, are at significantly increased risk and need to be told that. Those with diabetes and/or hypertension, for example, need to avoid contact as much as possible. Being male and being over fifty is also a bigger risk than being twenty and female. Put most of those together and that’s me(!), so wild horses aren’t going to drag me into any dangerous situation, like a theatre, until we have a vaccine that works. So young people carry on, we’ll be back with you at some point.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 12, 2020 11:23:26 GMT
I can see Broadway streaming shows in the UK to replace the need for Brits to go the USA. I doubt anyone in the uk will go to new york just to be a tourist for a very long while. Places like Majorica will only be for tourists who can go by boat or private jet - many don't think cheap flights will resume on economic or environmental grounds, Sorry to be harsh but the world has changed permanently a lot more than many on here are ready to accept. Tell me this in a year when flights have been reinstated, folk are jetting off for sunshine/skiing breaks and theatres have found solutions to any need for social distancing. The world will not stop turning for a minority of high risk people. Ultimately, vaccines will fix this. Economies will not be allowed to fail, as this would threaten capitalism itself. I. Sorry to say that if it means 90% of world populace surviving versus deaths in the 10s of millions, economics will dictate because lack of money will become the true threat. World wars etc demonstrate that the world is willing to accept a disproportionate amount of death when faced with an existential threat.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 12:32:28 GMT
I can see Broadway streaming shows in the UK to replace the need for Brits to go the USA. I doubt anyone in the uk will go to new york just to be a tourist for a very long while. Places like Majorica will only be for tourists who can go by boat or private jet - many don't think cheap flights will resume on economic or environmental grounds, Sorry to be harsh but the world has changed permanently a lot more than many on here are ready to accept. As soon as the deaths are heavily reduced whether it be due to a vaccine, herd immunity or treatment drugs (so in two years max), I will go to New York. I have no idea whether prices for flights and theatre tickets will go up or down (and frankly, none of us actually know yet) but either way I've had refunds from various things I'd already booked for and am sitting at home spending very little money for the forseeable future, so I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to afford it. I will happily spend more than I would have previously to do something I love and that - by that point - I'll have been deprived of for a significant amount of time. All I see on social media are people talking about how they miss going to the cinema, going out to eat, travelling etc. and that they can't wait to do it again. So I don't think I'm alone in this either. I understand that for most, if not all of us, this is the most life-changing wide-scale thing to happen in our lifetimes. But honestly, that just goes to show how sheltered we've been. Natural disasters, wars, invasion, genocide and yes, plagues have always been around. And theatre, having been around for over 2000 years, has seen it all already. The last time there was a pandemic of this scale, World War I was literally happening at the same time. And yet, life did eventually return to normal and it didn't take decades either. We're more equipped to deal with these things than we ever have been. Nothing has been changed permanently. There are recessions almost every decade. We deal with it, we recover, we return to normal and then we deal with the next one.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Apr 12, 2020 13:13:05 GMT
The theatre industry is doomed. There will be no theatres left. Nobody will put on shows. Worse still, there will be no need for this forum anymore Apparently.
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2020 13:56:29 GMT
I will. It's one of my favourite places in the world and when it is safe to do so I will be supporting the tourism industry there It is ludicrous to think that most places won't open up again in some capacity as soon as they reasonably can - too much of the economy and too many livelihoods depend on tourism for there to be any other outcome. Of course some people will be more cautious than others or otherwise incapable of going anywhere anytime soon, but for every one of those there is someone else who is fortunate enough to remain in employment, is saving a lot of money and will be first on a plane when travel does resume. I'll certainly be scheduling a NY trip and others as soon as I can. The question isn't whether there will be people travelling, it is when will that travelling be possible. I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 14:33:04 GMT
Theatre isn’t going to die but I think we will be incredibly fortunate to see the world revert back to business as usual any time soon. The government are clearly expecting lockdown to last at least until the end of May (they said they’d be paying wages initially for three months) and then restrictions have to be lifted gradually to prevent a mass outbreak.
As theatre was one of the first things to close it will therefore be one of the last things to re-open. If the government lift restrictions over the summer months gradually, it’ll be almost winter by the time attention gets back into the theatres and then there’s little point in re-opening them if a second wave is expected to hit.
So my guess is that theatre looks very likely to be closed until summer 2021, by which time we hopefully shall have a vaccination - assuming we can figure one out, the virus doesn’t continue to mutate and the world doesn’t go to war with China.
But even if theatres are open earlier, investment in it is going to be minimal - why would anyone invest a fortune in new productions until the world is safe and audiences have no reason to stay away? It was hard enough to recoup before all this happened.
My guess is everyone will look to the long runners and see how quickly audiences flock back to those before investments are made in something new. So sadly, the knock on effect could last years.
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Post by duncan on Apr 12, 2020 14:57:25 GMT
How will theatre function - differently!
Lockdown being lifted, and that's most likely another 9 weeks away, is just the beginning of the end as we are likely to see rolling lockdowns for specific geographical locations and people who are at risk over the next 18 months or so as infections flare up from time to time until we either have a vaccine or herd immunity.
Now theatre may be able to reopen but producers etc are going to have to be careful about the productions they put on, expect to see a lot of one hander or two performer plays and stripped back musicals, no overseas talent (just in case they get stuck in the UK), plenty of new writing about life in isolation and in all likelihood no actor over the age of 70 or any actor with an underlying health condition (and remember that includes asthma and diabetes) in any cast as the insurance will be astronomical.
We're probably a good 5 years from theatre being back to what it was in January this year.
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Post by basdfg on Apr 12, 2020 15:24:17 GMT
Economic war will happen with China, without doubt. It will be made to pay for the economic vacuum it created by allowing its ramshackle wet markets to continue. Expect to see Huawei lose UK deal, and sanctions in future. Hollyowood will go bust - none of the blockbusters are sustainable without China.
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Post by basdfg on Apr 12, 2020 15:27:10 GMT
I will. It's one of my favourite places in the world and when it is safe to do so I will be supporting the tourism industry there It is ludicrous to think that most places won't open up again in some capacity as soon as they reasonably can - too much of the economy and too many livelihoods depend on tourism for there to be any other outcome. Of course some people will be more cautious than others or otherwise incapable of going anywhere anytime soon, but for every one of those there is someone else who is fortunate enough to remain in employment, is saving a lot of money and will be first on a plane when travel does resume. I'll certainly be scheduling a NY trip and others as soon as I can. The question isn't whether there will be people travelling, it is when will that travelling be possible. I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering. Not Doom mongering but the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 15:34:03 GMT
I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering. Not Doom mongering but the truth. Yet multiple people here have told you they will go travelling as soon as it is relatively safe to do so, which wont be a long time in the grand scheme of things. I'm actually not sure if you're trolling at this point. I am aware some people enjoy revelling in pessimism but there's a difference between expecting the worst and trying to seriously state that cinema, theatre and travelling are all going to die out because we were put on lockdown for a few months, as if that's the worst thing humanity has ever dealt with.
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Post by stevej678 on Apr 12, 2020 16:03:32 GMT
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 16:42:11 GMT
And everything we achieve will be because of the positivity of people in this country and the rest of the world!
now can we get back on topic, which is how theatres will function after lockdown please?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 17:56:07 GMT
Posts removed. Could we stay on topic please.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 12, 2020 18:12:26 GMT
One thing before the tangent that I went off on and sincerely apologise for we are seemed to agree that initially we would likely see ‘favourites’ which are simple to stage at a low cost with a small cast.
With our collective encyclopaedic knowledge what plays fit into this category and would entice you back.
I will open with Waiting for Godot
This could be a different thread and will let popular opinion determine.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 18:17:31 GMT
I would hope that the new works that are “dead certs” would go ahead. It would be a tragedy if Life of Pi never saw the light of day again and I do think that’s a dead cert.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2020 18:17:38 GMT
Beginning by David Eldridge. Adored that play, even more so now considering its themes of loneliness and deep human connection.
Alan Bennett's Talking Heads too.
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Post by showgirl on Apr 12, 2020 18:23:16 GMT
Maybe a resumption of the interrupted Educating Rita tour? That must have a similarly small cast and I could certainly feel more enthusiastic about that than other suggestions, popular as they may be with some and admitting that they certainly tick the "small cast" box. I'm on record as saying I can't warm to plays with only a few characters, so I may have to wait a while for my fix - unless something cheerful and uplifting is on offer, in which case I'd probably jump at the chance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 21:21:35 GMT
I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering. Not Doom mongering but the truth. Nothing about the future is "the truth" unless you own a crystal ball... Anyway, as for what theatre will entice me back, anything really. But I'll happily start with re-visiting long runners just to get everything kicked off again. Haven't seen Les Mis or Wicked in a long time, Mamma Mia even longer, and I'll be back at Come From Away as soon as it re-opens.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2020 21:28:55 GMT
Well my favourite West End show is Austentatious and as it's improvised I'm hoping they'll be one of the first back seeing as they need no rehearsal time or indeed set building!
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