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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 15:34:03 GMT
I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering. Not Doom mongering but the truth. Yet multiple people here have told you they will go travelling as soon as it is relatively safe to do so, which wont be a long time in the grand scheme of things. I'm actually not sure if you're trolling at this point. I am aware some people enjoy revelling in pessimism but there's a difference between expecting the worst and trying to seriously state that cinema, theatre and travelling are all going to die out because we were put on lockdown for a few months, as if that's the worst thing humanity has ever dealt with.
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Post by stevejohnson678 on Apr 12, 2020 16:03:32 GMT
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 16:42:11 GMT
And everything we achieve will be because of the positivity of people in this country and the rest of the world!
now can we get back on topic, which is how theatres will function after lockdown please?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 17:56:07 GMT
Posts removed. Could we stay on topic please.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 12, 2020 18:12:26 GMT
One thing before the tangent that I went off on and sincerely apologise for we are seemed to agree that initially we would likely see ‘favourites’ which are simple to stage at a low cost with a small cast.
With our collective encyclopaedic knowledge what plays fit into this category and would entice you back.
I will open with Waiting for Godot
This could be a different thread and will let popular opinion determine.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 12, 2020 18:17:31 GMT
I would hope that the new works that are “dead certs” would go ahead. It would be a tragedy if Life of Pi never saw the light of day again and I do think that’s a dead cert.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2020 18:17:38 GMT
Beginning by David Eldridge. Adored that play, even more so now considering its themes of loneliness and deep human connection.
Alan Bennett's Talking Heads too.
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Post by showgirl on Apr 12, 2020 18:23:16 GMT
Maybe a resumption of the interrupted Educating Rita tour? That must have a similarly small cast and I could certainly feel more enthusiastic about that than other suggestions, popular as they may be with some and admitting that they certainly tick the "small cast" box. I'm on record as saying I can't warm to plays with only a few characters, so I may have to wait a while for my fix - unless something cheerful and uplifting is on offer, in which case I'd probably jump at the chance.
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Post by poster J on Apr 12, 2020 21:21:35 GMT
I agree, this idea that nobody will go travelling or go on holiday for a long time is just doom mongering. Not Doom mongering but the truth. Nothing about the future is "the truth" unless you own a crystal ball... Anyway, as for what theatre will entice me back, anything really. But I'll happily start with re-visiting long runners just to get everything kicked off again. Haven't seen Les Mis or Wicked in a long time, Mamma Mia even longer, and I'll be back at Come From Away as soon as it re-opens.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2020 21:28:55 GMT
Well my favourite West End show is Austentatious and as it's improvised I'm hoping they'll be one of the first back seeing as they need no rehearsal time or indeed set building!
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Post by olliebean on Apr 13, 2020 6:37:22 GMT
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 13, 2020 6:48:30 GMT
poster J not really thought about musicals which rarely if ever fit int the cheap and simple category especially the long runners as with both musicians and cast the number of people involved is relatively huge and therefore the risk of cast infection is higher. Southwark Playhouse has put on many musicals recently which I assume are relatively simple as not seen any could be the model initially?
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Post by Mark on Apr 13, 2020 7:02:30 GMT
😢 How do you reopen a show with no advance, no tourists, and a limited audience.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 13, 2020 8:16:14 GMT
What gets me down is that theatre is one of the most important things in my life. I hate sports, don't really spend my money on much else besides theatre and live comedy, that's where I direct all my passion. So without it, my life feels genuinely bereft. And the bad thing is that it feels like such a first world problem, oh you can;t go to the theatre? Big deal. But it really is!
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Post by viserys on Apr 13, 2020 8:34:15 GMT
I don't think it's a "first world problem" - live entertainment is as old as humanity. Sure, the overpriced glitzy shows in the West End and on Broadway are very much a first world thing, but people have congregated around fires to listen to stories being told/acted out/sung in every corner of the world for millennia. It's a communical experience like no other. Even today, when things are geared towards being consumed alone at home, people meet again on the internet to "live-tweet" along with TV shows and such to share the experience with others.
Which is also why I don't agree with some of the doom mongering here how "theatre is dead" and won't be around for many months to come. Humans are built around communities and communal experiences, whether it's shared excitement over a sports event, singing along together at a rock concert or the experience of 1000 people being deeply moved by a play/musical on stage. Maybe we won't see big West End houses filled to capacity for a while if they need to ask people to spread out to keep their distance, but theatre will be back.
When all of this began only 6-8 weeks ago, nobody really knew a thing. I remember that for my last theatre trip, they had put tables in the foyer with bottles of hand disinfectant that were blithely ignored by most. I think now people would be very much aware of following rules such as hand-washing/disinfecting, wearing masks to protect others and stay at home when they feel ever so slightly ill. Perhaps theatres need to be more lenient for some time, making it easier to return/refund or exchange tickets to discourage the usual "oh, it's only a slight cold, of course I'll use my ticket as I don't want to lose my money" logic.
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Post by basdfg on Apr 13, 2020 9:47:23 GMT
I don't think it's a "first world problem" - live entertainment is as old as humanity. Sure, the overpriced glitzy shows in the West End and on Broadway are very much a first world thing, but people have congregated around fires to listen to stories being told/acted out/sung in every corner of the world for millennia. It's a communical experience like no other. Even today, when things are geared towards being consumed alone at home, people meet again on the internet to "live-tweet" along with TV shows and such to share the experience with others. Which is also why I don't agree with some of the doom mongering here how "theatre is dead" and won't be around for many months to come. Humans are built around communities and communal experiences, whether it's shared excitement over a sports event, singing along together at a rock concert or the experience of 1000 people being deeply moved by a play/musical on stage. Maybe we won't see big West End houses filled to capacity for a while if they need to ask people to spread out to keep their distance, but theatre will be back. When all of this began only 6-8 weeks ago, nobody really knew a thing. I remember that for my last theatre trip, they had put tables in the foyer with bottles of hand disinfectant that were blithely ignored by most. I think now people would be very much aware of following rules such as hand-washing/disinfecting, wearing masks to protect others and stay at home when they feel ever so slightly ill. Perhaps theatres need to be more lenient for some time, making it easier to return/refund or exchange tickets to discourage the usual "oh, it's only a slight cold, of course I'll use my ticket as I don't want to lose my money" logic. That might need government legislation to ensure it happens even through without you are encouraging the spread considering high ticket prices.
Can any thetre run on spaced out seating- that seems like it wont happen. Afterall if the seating has to be spaced out so will everyone on stage - so that rules out most musicals and plays.
Cinemas might be able to function like that but not sure theatres can.
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Post by theatreian on Apr 13, 2020 9:52:13 GMT
I think it's too early to tell what will happen either way as it is with so many other questions at the moment. How the reduction in lockdown will be handled for example and how long it will take for everything to reopen. Then there are peoples attitudes to risk, whether they want to put themselves at risk of getting the virus if they don't know if they have had it or not. I am sure live entertainment will reappear at some point but it really is too early to tell as it depends on so many factors that are frankly unable to be forecasted at this point. Lets hope it isn't too long anyway and that venues can come up with alternatives in the meantime.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 10:08:36 GMT
Which is also why I don't agree with some of the doom mongering here how "theatre is dead" and won't be around for many months to come. Humans are built around communities and communal experiences, whether it's shared excitement over a sports event, singing along together at a rock concert or the experience of 1000 people being deeply moved by a play/musical on stage. Maybe we won't see big West End houses filled to capacity for a while if they need to ask people to spread out to keep their distance, but theatre will be back. Theatre will be back, but what makes you think it’ll be back quickly? Genuine question as I’m on the other side of the fence but would love to be wrong. I don’t think social distancing inside a theatre is practical at all - the queue for the bathrooms are infamously long and horrendous without 2m gaps, the bar is always 5 or 6 people deep at intervals and other than the long runners, I don’t think a show can dramatically reduce capacity and survive. Most west end theatres already make you feel like you’re sat on top of each other, so you’d need a good 2 or 3 seats empty either side of you, and I dare say 2 rows in front of you and behind you too. Then how do you stop people getting in and out of the one or two exists safely, without crowds forming? It’s bad enough when someone coughs at the theatre anyway, but now if someone coughs it’s going to take you out of the moment and make you worry. So I don’t see theatres re-opening until it’s completely safe to do so... and even then, there’s the question of audiences feeling safe enough to sit with strangers, alongside the question of personal finances: I imagine a lot of people will not be spending money on luxuries and will actually start to save once this is over - for fear of a repeat bought of hardship. Then of course is the question of how you fund new productions, whether shows can afford to return or whether they will survive and endure once the government lifts the ban (which presumably will be before public confidence has been restored). Returning to full form is going to be a long game as - and unless I’m missing something, this current situation is much more than just an industry pause.
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 13, 2020 10:13:07 GMT
Can any thetre run on spaced out seating- that seems like it wont happen I can't see how spaced out seating could be practical. You'd need to leave two empty rows between each occupied row and you'd have to space people out within a row so you'd be lucky to be able to sell 25% of the seats, and then you need to deal with families that want to sit together and you'll always get some idiot who sees an empty seat and decides to move to it regardless of distancing measures. I can't see any sort of conventional auditorium being able to reopen until we have a vaccine or until infection rates are down in the tens per country, at which point they'll be able to operate as normal.
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Post by richey on Apr 13, 2020 10:16:45 GMT
What use would spaced out seating be when everyone would be crowded into the foyer/toilets/corridors etc anyway?
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Post by basdfg on Apr 13, 2020 10:17:26 GMT
Which is also why I don't agree with some of the doom mongering here how "theatre is dead" and won't be around for many months to come. Humans are built around communities and communal experiences, whether it's shared excitement over a sports event, singing along together at a rock concert or the experience of 1000 people being deeply moved by a play/musical on stage. Maybe we won't see big West End houses filled to capacity for a while if they need to ask people to spread out to keep their distance, but theatre will be back. Theatre will be back, but what makes you think it’ll be back quickly? Genuine question as I’m on the other side of the fence but would love to be wrong. I don’t think social distancing inside a theatre is practical at all - the queue for the bathrooms are infamously long and horrendous without 2m gaps, the bar is always 5 or 6 people deep at intervals and other than the long runners, I don’t think a show can dramatically reduce capacity and survive. Most west end theatres already make you feel like you’re sat on top of each other, so you’d need a good 2 or 3 seats empty either side of you, and I dare say 2 rows in front of you and behind you too. Then how do you stop people getting in and out of the one or two exists safely, without crowds forming? It’s bad enough when someone coughs at the theatre anyway, but now if someone coughs it’s going to take you out of the moment and make you worry. So I don’t see theatres re-opening until it’s completely safe to do so... and even then, there’s the question of audiences feeling safe enough to sit with strangers, alongside the question of personal finances: I imagine a lot of people will not be spending money on luxuries and will actually start to save once this is over - for fear of a repeat bought of hardship. Then of course is the question of how you fund new productions, whether shows can afford to return or whether they will survive and endure once the government lifts the ban (which presumably will be before public confidence has been restored). Returning to full form is going to be a long game as - and unless I’m missing something, this current situation is much more than just an industry pause. We will get more virtual streaming. With borders shut things should stream for international people - countries like New Zealand are no entry or exit until a vaccine comes.
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Post by TallPaul on Apr 13, 2020 10:27:54 GMT
Once public transport is allowed to return to 'normal', then surely there is no justification in keeping theatres closed. Given a choice between sitting in a theatre with 499 others, or crowding onto a commuter train, I'd pick the former every time.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 13, 2020 10:32:18 GMT
Once public transport is allowed to return to 'normal', then surely there is no justification in keeping theatres closed. Given a choice between sitting in a theatre with 499 others, or crowding onto a commuter train, I'd pick the former every time. True. If the Tube is open then theatres should be. Even before all this I think by travelling on the Tube you got immune to a lot of things! Plus I actually intend on walking in London a lot more in leiu of taking the Tube. Both to avoid the crowded space and to revel on being free to walk around, not to mention I'll need the exercise!
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Post by basdfg on Apr 13, 2020 10:34:27 GMT
The TUBE is still running - first it be more people working then being allowed to go shopping. But sitting in a confined space like a theatre will literally be the last thing back bar massive outdoor events.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 10:37:06 GMT
Which is also why I don't agree with some of the doom mongering here how "theatre is dead" and won't be around for many months to come. Humans are built around communities and communal experiences, whether it's shared excitement over a sports event, singing along together at a rock concert or the experience of 1000 people being deeply moved by a play/musical on stage. Maybe we won't see big West End houses filled to capacity for a while if they need to ask people to spread out to keep their distance, but theatre will be back. It’s bad enough when someone coughs at the theatre anyway, but now if someone coughs it’s going to take you out of the moment and make you worry. So I don’t see theatres re-opening until it’s completely safe to do so... and even then, there’s the question of audiences feeling safe enough to sit with strangers, alongside the question of personal finances: I imagine a lot of people will not be spending money on luxuries and will actually start to save once this is over - for fear of a repeat bought of hardship. The thing is there are people out there now ignoring the social distancing rules and putting themselves and others at risk, even when deaths are at 900 a day. So I find it difficult to imagine that there wont be a significant amount of people that will be happy to sit with strangers when the powers that be have deemed it safe enough to do so, especially after being cooped up for so long not being allowed to do that. Less than there were before for a while, sure. But many will be more eager than they've ever been to do anything but stay at home. In regards to saving money, obviously everyone's employment and financial situation at the moment is different. But for those that continue to get any form of significant income, they currently aren't spending any of that on leisure, entertainment, travel, eating out etc. So they're already essentially saving money. And if we're honest, most of the people that can usually afford to regularly see West End or Broadway theatre at non-discounted prices probably aren't the ones struggling the most through these times. When this is over, people will move on to the next thing. Now we expect - and we hope - that whatever it will be wont be as life-changing as this has been. But regardless, it will dominate the news, the media wont shut up about it and coronavirus will soon enough be a distant memory for all but the most seriously affected. The less it gets talked about as the months go by, the less people think about it and the less they let it change how they live their lives. Look at the way brexit has gone from being the only think you'd ever hear about when you turned on the TV or radio to barely mentioned because they have something new to focus on.
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Post by jojo on Apr 13, 2020 11:01:53 GMT
What use would spaced out seating be when everyone would be crowded into the foyer/toilets/corridors etc anyway? Fewer ticket sales means shorter queues for the toilets, and social distancing (as opposed to self isolation) isn't supposed to be about eliminating all risk, it's about reducing it. So spending three minutes in a toilet queue is still better than spending five minutes in a toilet queue AND two hours with a group of entirely new people who might not be trusted to stay at home if they have a temperature sitting half a metre behind you. Sitting side to side isn't going to be such a big problem in itself if everyone is spending most of the time facing the front, but getting in and out of rows would be. I'd say it's a possible half-way house for those who are a bit more bold, which isn't risk free, but is significantly less risky than now. However, I'd say a big problem with it is that the very fact you are spread out acts as a constant reminder that it's still not entirely safe out there. The financial viability is another thing. But if the alternative is for them to be empty then it might be a way for some theatres to generate some income. No-one will be getting rich by operating that way, but it might keep a few people in employment and pay towards general upkeep. I'd like to think that some theatre owners or producers with deep pockets will use the time to refurbish some theatres. Perhaps spread the seats out a bit for the purposes of leg-room if nothing else. The public transport network will be fully functioning long before theatres can reopen. I fully support the value of the arts, but people need the tube to get about for essential work, and to visit family and friends. If anything, authorities will be keen to keep theatres shut, as well as encouraging people to keep on working from home where possible, to keep the tube network as empty as possible for those who do need to use it.
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Post by basdfg on Apr 13, 2020 11:06:51 GMT
What use would spaced out seating be when everyone would be crowded into the foyer/toilets/corridors etc anyway? Fewer ticket sales means shorter queues for the toilets, and social distancing (as opposed to self isolation) isn't supposed to be about eliminating all risk, it's about reducing it. So spending three minutes in a toilet queue is still better than spending five minutes in a toilet queue AND two hours with a group of entirely new people who might not be trusted to stay at home if they have a temperature sitting half a metre behind you. Sitting side to side isn't going to be such a big problem in itself if everyone is spending most of the time facing the front, but getting in and out of rows would be. I'd say it's a possible half-way house for those who are a bit more bold, which isn't risk free, but is significantly less risky than now. However, I'd say a big problem with it is that the very fact you are spread out acts as a constant reminder that it's still not entirely safe out there. The financial viability is another thing. But if the alternative is for them to be empty then it might be a way for some theatres to generate some income. No-one will be getting rich by operating that way, but it might keep a few people in employment and pay towards general upkeep. I'd like to think that some theatre owners or producers with deep pockets will use the time to refurbish some theatres. Perhaps spread the seats out a bit for the purposes of leg-room if nothing else. The public transport network will be fully functioning long before theatres can reopen. I fully support the value of the arts, but people need the tube to get about for essential work, and to visit family and friends. If anything, authorities will be keen to keep theatres shut, as well as encouraging people to keep on working from home where possible, to keep the tube network as empty as possible for those who do need to use it. Temperature checks on the door might work but theatres would have to be willing to exchange or refund for those refused entry or no one will buy tickets. It's tourism that won't come back - plenty of people very happy that lack of flights has helped pollution and will very hard to stop the levels before returning - lot's of talk of going on a flight is never essential and nobody ever needs to travel where a train cant get them too.
Are they any figures of how much reliance on tourism is there in the West End.?
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Post by viserys on Apr 13, 2020 11:19:08 GMT
Theatre will be back, but what makes you think it’ll be back quickly? Genuine question as I’m on the other side of the fence but would love to be wrong. Well, "quickly" is a flexible term - I don't expect everything to be back to normal within one or two months, but I also don't expect the doom-mongering here that sees theatres closed to the end of the year or even through 2021. Why? Because so many areas of the economy are based on people being in close proximity to each other: Public transport from the local bus to long-haul flights, all sorts of events from theatre and cinema to sports events to conferences, factories and large warehouses, every shopping street and market, every aspect of tourism... and when you look at just how hard a one-month-lockdown has already hit the global economy, it just isn't feasible to sustain this over six month (or more). I expect a step-by-step opening up: Small shops first, restaurants, smaller cinemas and theatres, too. And yes, if necessary with gaps between people. I mean, the cinema I regularly visit is rarely ever "full" and people cluster together in the middle section of the last 4-5 rows, so they can easily spread out. We may not see a packed Palladium for several months, but at least for the long-runs and producers with deep pockets it may be more profitable to run shows in front of 200 people than generating no income at all. It will be longer until big venues of +5000 seats (such as football stadiums) will open up again and I don't expect to see any rock festivals happening at all this year with 50,000 crammed together in front of a stage. But I do think it's possible to let a few hundred healthy people who are very observant of current hygiene rules (wash hands, use a face mask) within close proximity of each other in a theatre. Of course I could be wrong. This is just my personal thinking and hoping. I know that as soon as things are opening up again I will be on my way to London to support the industry I love so much...
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Post by basdfg on Apr 13, 2020 11:23:24 GMT
Theatre will be back, but what makes you think it’ll be back quickly? Genuine question as I’m on the other side of the fence but would love to be wrong. Well, "quickly" is a flexible term - I don't expect everything to be back to normal within one or two months, but I also don't expect the doom-mongering here that sees theatres closed to the end of the year or even through 2021. Why? Because so many areas of the economy are based on people being in close proximity to each other: Public transport from the local bus to long-haul flights, all sorts of events from theatre and cinema to sports events to conferences, factories and large warehouses, every shopping street and market, every aspect of tourism... and when you look at just how hard a one-month-lockdown has already hit the global economy, it just isn't feasible to sustain this over six month (or more). I expect a step-by-step opening up: Small shops first, restaurants, smaller cinemas and theatres, too. And yes, if necessary with gaps between people. I mean, the cinema I regularly visit is rarely ever "full" and people cluster together in the middle section of the last 4-5 rows, so they can easily spread out. We may not see a packed Palladium for several months, but at least for the long-runs and producers with deep pockets it may be more profitable to run shows in front of 200 people than generating no income at all. It will be longer until big venues of +5000 seats (such as football stadiums) will open up again and I don't expect to see any rock festivals happening at all this year with 50,000 crammed together in front of a stage. But I do think it's possible to let a few hundred healthy people who are very observant of current hygiene rules (wash hands, use a face mask) within close proximity of each other in a theatre. Of course I could be wrong. This is just my personal thinking and hoping. I know that as soon as things are opening up again I will be on my way to London to support the industry I love so much... People won't buy tickets that are non refundable if a simple cough means they can't go.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 13, 2020 11:29:08 GMT
Regarding the comparison with commuting, that's more up to the individual, really - if you get sick you stay home. With theatre there's the whole ecosystem - FOH will be in the front line, and even if the actors don't themselves fall ill, they will surely have loved ones falling ill. I can't see theatre coming back quickly unless it's the small, Soho theatre, studio theatre type situation where casts are small, prices and costs low and the audience is young and not living with immediate/vulnerable dependants.
We may see a period of independent creatives making work for streaming instead - it could be interesting, more in the old school, punk DIY tradition.
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