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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 22:47:54 GMT
by the time they get home it can be 8-8.30 and being tired and hungry, do they want to go out and vote. It takes maximum 10 minutes on the way home, so I really don't see the problem. I'll be out of the house at 6.45am and lucky if I'm home by 9pm, but that day I will make sure I am home in time to nip up the road and put an X on the ballot paper. If I can't be bothered to do that then frankly I would say I don't deserve to have the vote! |
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Post by Polly1 on Oct 30, 2019 23:02:12 GMT
This poem by Ian McMillan sums up the process of voting beautifully
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Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 30, 2019 23:33:57 GMT
What a great bit of poetry
on the day that people gather
to kiss a piece of paper
There is something special about entering a Polling Booth, never forgotten my first vote, up there with passing my driving test and my first legal pint, one of life’s milestones.
Never an openly political family but on the first election after my 18th my father explained the privilege of being able to vote, I don’t care who you vote for as long as you take up your democratic right.
Have never missed a vote in any election since and get quite nostalgic when voting as I remember walking in to the village hall together, never did find out who he voted for, or his politics as it was something we never discussed.
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Post by sophie92 on Oct 31, 2019 6:11:12 GMT
by the time they get home it can be 8-8.30 and being tired and hungry, do they want to go out and vote. It takes maximum 10 minutes on the way home, so I really don't see the problem. I'll be out of the house at 6.45am and lucky if I'm home by 9pm, but that day I will make sure I am home in time to nip up the road and put an X on the ballot paper. If I can't be bothered to do that then frankly I would say I don't deserve to have the vote! Polling stations aren’t always so conveniently located though. Mine used to be right next to the station but this year it was moved and so from the station is 20 minutes walk in the opposite direction from my home - I can already say I’m not looking forward to that walk in total darkness on the 12th December. Regardless of polling station location, there’s also the possibility that people have reasons for needing to get home straight away after a day at work. That’s where a postal vote should come in useful, but will people remember to apply in time? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 7:32:20 GMT
It pains me that I will not be able to have a say in this. Even if they did lower the voting age to 16, I don't turn 16 until the end of January.
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Post by londonpostie on Oct 31, 2019 8:57:17 GMT
Choppy waters and high winds ahead, but if Labour is really 8% behind the Conservatives (34% / 26% - Survation October 30) with 8 weeks remaining, either I'm seriously misreading the landscape or Corbyn is on course for Downing Street.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 31, 2019 9:24:53 GMT
On my way to Battersea for the Labour GE Launch.
Was in Harrow last night, the 500,000 seem pretty engaged and Corbyn was on top form, seemed in his element engaging happily with all who were there.
Already feels as if focus is primarily moving away from Brexit, Susannah Reed was brilliant this morning holding Matt Hancock to account on Police numbers this morning on GMB.
Final comment was priceless perfectly summing up the Conservatives Domestic Policy.
“Fixing what you (Tories) broke”
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 10:53:34 GMT
People may see the polling method of MRP being used and, already it is being misunderstood. This has been the most accurate polling with, for example, it being the only pollster to predict Labour taking Kensington and Canterbury in 2017. The latest predictions using this method are being used for the tactical voting site getvoting.org/ for Best for Britain, which is essentially anti-Conservative (so Conservatives don’t bother!). Please try it, as it is up to date and using recent polling from the last month. Sadly some Labour supporters don’t seem to understand the above because it doesn’t give them what they expect in a few constituencies. It does, however, show that Labour is the biggest challenger in 370 seats and Lib Dems in half that. The polling of 46000 people, with a very low margin of error is not to be ignored, though. Not taking this advice will lead to another Conservative government, if one in three anti-Conservatives switch their vote, there won’t be. They are going to be releasing constituency level data but this is what they are predicting for Kensington this time. These will be updated when it is known who is standing in each constituency as, for example, there may be no Brexit party candidate or Green candidate and there are rumours of some electoral pacts. |
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Post by peelee on Oct 31, 2019 12:50:30 GMT
I doubt that voting pattern for Kensington constituency. It bears hardly any resemblance to the last general election outcome, in 2017, nor others that preceded it IIRC. It was in the last local elections in the borough that the Liberals seemed to have undergone a split or breakaway of some sort sufficient for quite different candidates but once political bedfellows, to have stood. So Lib Dem storming of general election 2019 in Kensington looks very unlikely whether because of internal divisions and loyalties or because of other political parties being unlikely to fall for this new app/website's hype. I notice today in The guardian that these people are sceptical about it too: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/tactical-voting-could-deliver-remain-victory-in-election-study |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 12:58:19 GMT
I doubt that voting pattern for Kensington constituency. It bears hardly any resemblance to the last general election outcome, in 2017, nor others that preceded it IIRC. It was in the local elections in the borough this year that the Liberals seemed to have undergone a split or breakaway of some sort sufficient for quite different candidates but once political bedfellows, to have stood. So Lib Dem storming of general election 2019 in Kensington looks very unlikely whether because of internal divisions and loyalties or because of other political parties being unlikely to fall for this new app/website's hype. I notice today in The guardian that these people are sceptical about it too: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/30/tactical-voting-could-deliver-remain-victory-in-election-studyPolling in 2019 is completely different to 2017. This is based on recent polling and will be updated as the current picture changes. People didn't believe Kensington last time either and look what happened. There is, frustratingly, a tactical voting site via Gina Miller which is based on 2017 results, people really do need to ignore this. It has seats like Woking, where Lib Dems have had a resurgence locally as to vote Labour instead. It's this sort of mistake being propagated which will just lead to more Conservative MPs. The Guardian's partisan article is what led me to post this, so people don't get misled. Kensington leans conservative, it has had a conservative MP for ages, Labour squeaked it because of the Lib Dem collapse. Now that the Lib Dem vote has more than doubled and that they have the former Conservative (though very much a centrist) Gyimah as the candidate, things have changed. Bottom line, don't look at 2017 results and imagine that they are reflected now. I am voting Labour, despite being a Lib Dem voter, precisely because this website makes the case for doing so. |
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Post by londonpostie on Oct 31, 2019 12:59:22 GMT
People may see the polling method of MRP being used and, already it is being misunderstood. This has been the most accurate polling with, for example, it being the only pollster to predict Labour taking Kensington and Canterbury in 2017. You're fast becoming a one-dimensional propagandist.
Pretty well everyone understands - inc. Emma Dent Coad - that K & C was an anomaly.
As much as your educational commitment to the humble people is valued, here's a link so people can start to form thier own opinion:
Tactical voting website criticised for 'bogus' advice
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 13:14:26 GMT
People may see the polling method of MRP being used and, already it is being misunderstood. This has been the most accurate polling with, for example, it being the only pollster to predict Labour taking Kensington and Canterbury in 2017. You're fast becoming a one-dimensional propagandist.
Pretty well everyone understands - inc. Emma Dent Coad - that K & C was an anomaly.
As much as your educational commitment to the humble people is valued, here's a link so people can start to form thier own opinion:
Tactical voting website criticised for 'bogus' advice
FFS, I've just said I'm voting Labour. All I ask for is people in seats where Lib Dems stand a better chance of winning Labour voters make that switch. This is the same method which told people to vote Labour in Kensington last time. This is backed by polling experts and is cross party, not by partisans desperate to get their party in power. I get it, you want Brexit. You don't like this organisation because you want the opposite. You also sound as though you would be happier to have a Tory MP rather than a Lib Dem one to achieve that end. You had the chance to win the election by ditching Corbyn yet he's still there, so if the Tories win it's on you. Twitter thread explaining the methodology (followed by a concerted Labour smear campaign in response) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 13:42:44 GMT
Also, for those, who don't follow local polls and such (sad, anoraky thing to do, I know!). This actual constituency voting intention poll released yesterday backs up what I was saying above. 20% Swing from Labour to Lib Dem. I appreciate that some won't like that but you cannot ignore it. Things may change during the campaign, and such recommendations will change accordingly, this is just where we are now.
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Post by Phantom of London on Oct 31, 2019 18:52:53 GMT
by the time they get home it can be 8-8.30 and being tired and hungry, do they want to go out and vote. It takes maximum 10 minutes on the way home, so I really don't see the problem. I'll be out of the house at 6.45am and lucky if I'm home by 9pm, but that day I will make sure I am home in time to nip up the road and put an X on the ballot paper. If I can't be bothered to do that then frankly I would say I don't deserve to have the vote! It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. |
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Post by lynette on Oct 31, 2019 19:48:37 GMT
Also, for those, who don't follow local polls and such (sad, anoraky thing to do, I know!). This actual constituency voting intention poll released yesterday backs up what I was saying above. 20% Swing from Labour to Lib Dem. I appreciate that some won't like that but you cannot ignore it. Things may change during the campaign, and such recommendations will change accordingly, this is just where we are now. This suggests that that voters want a clear Brexit or Remain choice and aren’t taking much notice of the other issues. Who’d a thought it? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 20:04:06 GMT
This suggests that that voters want a clear Brexit or Remain choice and aren’t taking much notice of the other issues. Who’d a thought it? It would have been better settled by a referendum but Johnson looked as though he might well get his bill through with enough opposition support, so an election it is. On polling stations, mine is a room in a Methodist Church; anyone got anything more exotic, like the pubs and caravans that get mentioned? |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 31, 2019 20:27:03 GMT
This suggests that that voters want a clear Brexit or Remain choice and aren’t taking much notice of the other issues. Who’d a thought it? It would have been better settled by a referendum but Johnson looked as though he might well get his bill through with enough opposition support, so an election it is. On polling stations, mine is a room in a Methodist Church; anyone got anything more exotic, like the pubs and caravans that get mentioned? Mine is a cannoe club on the Regents canal in E2 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 20:35:58 GMT
It would have been better settled by a referendum but Johnson looked as though he might well get his bill through with enough opposition support, so an election it is. On polling stations, mine is a room in a Methodist Church; anyone got anything more exotic, like the pubs and caravans that get mentioned? Mine is a cannoe club on the Regents canal in E2 Trying to attract floating voters? |
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Post by peelee on Oct 31, 2019 20:43:55 GMT
I refer to the 2017 general election result in Kensington because it is the last, though fairly recent, actual general election result as counted on election night at the local town hall, and not to be confused with a hypothetical vote-share in 2019 according to some lobby group's prediction. See result here along with a comparison of trends in Kensington parliamentary constituency from general elections 2005 to 2010 through to 2015 and lastly 2017: electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2017-06-08/results/Location/Constituency/KensingtonThis is why whatever people elsewhere might be led to think by such lobbyists, Kensington people have more knowledge of actual conditions locally along with historical awareness of parties' performances. That is also why The Guardian article I linked to first, see above, queried the claims being made about Kensington. And if the 2017 general election result doesn't suit you, Cardinal Pirelli, then see here the local election results for the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea in May 2018: www.rbkc.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/local-democracy-and-elections/local-council-elections-2018-resultsYes, 36 Conservative Party councillors, with 13 other councillors Labour Party, and Liberal Democrats with just one councillor. Click on the graphic to see the local picture in easier to-read format. If you think that was unusual, back in the 2014 local elections the respective councillor numbers were 37, 12 and just one Lib Dem. The Labour MP elected in 2017 is as pro-EU and pro-Remain as they come, although that was only referred to in a coded way "Emma is passionate about..." in her campaign literature in 2017. Mere days after she was elected, she joined a Chukka Umuna-led rebellion of Labour MPs on, I think it was, Article 50 or some such, anyway it was in defiance of the Labour whip. While she won on a margin of only 20 votes, it was to a weight of votes that far exceeded any for the Lib Dem. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 20:44:16 GMT
It takes maximum 10 minutes on the way home, so I really don't see the problem. I'll be out of the house at 6.45am and lucky if I'm home by 9pm, but that day I will make sure I am home in time to nip up the road and put an X on the ballot paper. If I can't be bothered to do that then frankly I would say I don't deserve to have the vote! It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. But what if but what if but what if ...? No matter how the election is arranged you'll always be able to find some combination of circumstances that mean a small number of people can't vote. It doesn't matter, and the reason it doesn't matter is because the proportion of people who are unable to vote despite their best efforts is vanishingly small compared to the number who can't be bothered and to the typical margin by which constituencies are won and lost. It doesn't have any statistically significant effect on the outcome. There are already several ways in which people are able to cast their votes, and if they decide they're just not going to try any of those and expect everyone else to run around to suit their convenience then they probably wouldn't bother to vote anyway. Very few surgeons perform fifteen-hour operations without a break. It's expensive to hold an election — the last one cost £140m — and you can't expect the country to stump up several times the cost so a vanishingly small fraction of the electorate can make less of an effort. It's really isn't the massive issue you're trying to make it out to be. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 21:20:16 GMT
I refer to the 2017 general election result in Kensington because it is the last, though fairly recent, actual general election result as counted on election night at the local town hall, and not to be confused with a hypothetical vote-share in 2019 according to some lobby group's prediction. See result here along with a comparison of trends in Kensington parliamentary constituency from general elections 2005 to 2010 through to 2015 and lastly 2017: electionresults.parliament.uk/election/2017-06-08/results/Location/Constituency/KensingtonThis is why whatever people elsewhere might be led to think by such lobbyists, Kensington people have more knowledge of actual conditions locally along with historical awareness of parties' performances. That is also why The Guardian article I linked to first, see above, queried the claims being made about Kensington. And if the 2017 general election result doesn't suit you, Cardinal Pirelli, then see here the local election results for the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea in May 2018: www.rbkc.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/local-democracy-and-elections/local-council-elections-2018-resultsYes, 36 Conservative Party councillors, with 13 other councillors Labour Party, and Liberal Democrats with just one councillor. Click on the graphic to see the local picture in easier to-read format. If you think that was unusual, back in the 2014 local elections the respective councillor numbers were 37, 12 and just one Lib Dem. The Labour MP elected in 2017 is as pro-EU and pro-Remain as they come, although that was only referred to in a coded way "Emma is passionate about..." in her campaign literature in 2017. Mere days after she was elected, she joined a Chukka Umuna-led rebellion of Labour MPs on, I think it was, Article 50 or some such, anyway it was in defiance of the Labour whip. While she won on a margin of only 20 votes, it was to a weight of votes that far exceeded any for the Lib Dem. Labour national vote down from 40% to 24-5ish%, Lib Dem vote up from 7.4% to 18ish%. Even on a Uniform National Swing that's a 13% swing from Lab to Lib Dem. Local factors are important much less for a General Election (usually to the detriment of Lib Dems who pile up votes in locals in places they don't in nationwide elections). Given that, then the Labour MP has no chance, yet whilst a Lib Dem may fall short they at least have a chance of taking some ex conservative votes as well, which Labour won't. I could also point out the result in London where Lib Dems came first for the Euros but that is just as misleading, and just as recent, as Locals are. I appreciate it's tough to face but you can't lose 16% nationally and expect to hold a knife edge marginal. 2017 has gone, things have changed beyond all recognition electorally. To be fair, I'd also suggest that Lib Dems shouldn't waste time chasing places like Bristol, which might also look good if you only look at the Euro results. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 22:09:53 GMT
It takes maximum 10 minutes on the way home, so I really don't see the problem. I'll be out of the house at 6.45am and lucky if I'm home by 9pm, but that day I will make sure I am home in time to nip up the road and put an X on the ballot paper. If I can't be bothered to do that then frankly I would say I don't deserve to have the vote! It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. You have a choice of postal or proxy then, why are they not good enough options? Longer hours means more staffing, more security and later counts, and room hires galore. I really don't understand why 15 hours to vote plus two options if you can't make it in person is somehow insufficient. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 31, 2019 22:26:46 GMT
It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. You have a choice of postal or proxy then, why are they not good enough options? Longer hours means more staffing, more security and later counts, and room hires galore. I really don't understand why 15 hours to vote plus two options if you can't make it in person is somehow insufficient. This. Someone calculated that cancelled Christmas Fayre's in school assembly rooms and village halls will cost local charities £1.5m. They've suffered enough as it is under a Tory government |
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 1, 2019 0:06:01 GMT
It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. But what if but what if but what if ...? No matter how the election is arranged you'll always be able to find some combination of circumstances that mean a small number of people can't vote. It doesn't matter, and the reason it doesn't matter is because the proportion of people who are unable to vote despite their best efforts is vanishingly small compared to the number who can't be bothered and to the typical margin by which constituencies are won and lost. It doesn't have any statistically significant effect on the outcome. There are already several ways in which people are able to cast their votes, and if they decide they're just not going to try any of those and expect everyone else to run around to suit their convenience then they probably wouldn't bother to vote anyway. Very few surgeons perform fifteen-hour operations without a break. It's expensive to hold an election — the last one cost £140m — and you can't expect the country to stump up several times the cost so a vanishingly small fraction of the electorate can make less of an effort. It's really isn't the massive issue you're trying to make it out to be. The surgeon was just one example and if they are doing a life saving operation they still cannot pop out to vote, it could be a 3 hour operation that could stop someone voting, if a emergency comes in at 6pm. Everyone should have a fair chance to vote. It takes you 10 minutes, you might be lucky enough to live near a polling station or drive, but for a few this isn’t the case. Also if you work as a surgeon and you are operating, you cannot abandon the operation to go and vote. Likewise if you work on the railway and you are on an incident, it is unlawful to leave the railway in an unsafe state. There are a plethora of reasons why people can’t vote and I just named 2. People deserve a second chance to vote if they miss their first attempt. How much would it cost to keep polling stations open longer? This after Boris has squandered millions on adverts on leaving the EU on 31st October. I wouldn’t be opposed to having the polling station open Sunday to Thursday night. You have a choice of postal or proxy then, why are they not good enough options? Longer hours means more staffing, more security and later counts, and room hires galore. I really don't understand why 15 hours to vote plus two options if you can't make it in person is somehow insufficient. Obviously I have no sympathy for people who don’t vote, but hey that is democracy Who cares if costs more, if it enables more people to execute their democratic right. That cost of the last general election of £140m, would include the count which wouldn’t change, as that still only needs to be done once, or again if it is close. So that factor doesn’t change. Why would there be extended polling time? As I said Noris has just spent millions telling everyone through advertising we are leaving on the 31st October. Also those new 50p coins. They are talking of scrapping postal votes, proxy voting is when someone does this on your behalf, so this could be problematic in itself. Never known security staff at a polling booth. You don’t have to hire buildings, the government already has enough building; schools, community halls and libraries etc. Yeap more staff, wouldn’t that be nice for someone to earn a bit money in their back pocket before christmas. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 1, 2019 0:12:28 GMT
On a different tangent, it is dreadful how many MPs are standing down, especially women, given the factor they’re mainly and 70% Brexiters think it is acceptable to use violence against their Politicians - it’s they don’t execute the will of the people, especially when this is played out to what happened Jo Cox.
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