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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 10:42:32 GMT
I'm not seeing them as likeable, maybe that's an issue. I think they are - they're well-rounded, believable, recognisable, flawed but not actively nasty, not the sort of knuckledragging skinheads or secretive Russian bots that FBPE hashtaggers seem to think solely lie behind the rise of the likes of Farage or Trump. I suppose I have a different definition of likeability - I mean characters who are engaging. I think, for example, the first three episodes of Year of the Rabbit fall flat for me because the writing and pace don't give the leads the space to make us like or care for them, or feel they have an interior life. Engaging as characters, yes, also believable, flawed, recognisable and not actively nasty. The lack of time for each reduces them to an outline, though, so I wouldn't go as far as saying that they are well rounded.
As people, however, surely we are supposed to be frustrated by them and their poor choices? Such poor choices that patience would be growing very thin with them very quickly. I'm interested to see how he pulls things together in the last episode (I'm presuming it's a one off, is that known or not?), will it just be a global dumpster fire or will he do a Whovian time trick so we are back before it all went pear shaped?
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Post by crowblack on Jun 13, 2019 11:33:09 GMT
surely we are supposed to be frustrated by them and their poor choices? The characters within the drama are too, though - pretty well every choice made by a family member is disapproved of by others - supporting Rook, becoming a flat earther, risking everything for a boyfriend or your global political activism or your identity crisis, losing money/job/having affair and supporting an increasingly fascist regime etc.
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Post by lynette on Jun 13, 2019 15:50:34 GMT
Hidden amongst all the character development in the early episodes were things that have become vital to the plot. You have to see it as a whole, not just individual episodes. The future does look bloody depressing. Not sure I'd have opted to have my sight improved when things look that bad! But how inevitable is the chargeable queue jump? I mean technically it exists already in the form of private v NHS, but for the NHS to offer it. God I hope that would never happen. If this was in because the writer wants some to say something about the NHS, it was pretty crass. So I’m thinking it must have repercussions. The money? Will she need it to get Bethany out of trouble? I’m just wondering if it will all connect up or not. They did make a big point of it.
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 14, 2019 2:36:46 GMT
An interesting thing I noticed about the scene in the first episode which includes very up to date radio news reports. I was watching with subtitles on and they were different... The stories were more generic so the edit to real news must have been very last minute.
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Post by olliebean on Jun 14, 2019 7:06:09 GMT
As I understand it, a genuine news report from that very day was edited in. I remember reading that the newsreader was surprised to hear herself in it!
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Post by karloscar on Jun 14, 2019 9:57:54 GMT
Quite amusing that tomasz schafernacker hasn't aged at all in 2028. Must have a good plastic surgeon.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 14, 2019 12:27:42 GMT
digital avatars by then, based on old presenters. Like Swifty Frisco in Halo Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2019 22:17:11 GMT
I watched episodes 1-4 again tonight and now I feel utterly drained (but too hyped to sleep). I couldn't face 5 as well or I'd have been up all night. But god, I really want to burn everything down now. I really hope Bethany and Edith and maybe Celeste rip everything apart tomorrow.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Jun 18, 2019 21:04:56 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 21:11:30 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!) Loved the ending of it, I wasn’t sold totally up to this episode but I think Davies hit the landing very well. At last someone called them out for being selfish (great speech from Gran), something that was frustrating me, and it all started to work for me. Very moving I thought in the last section.
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Post by david on Jun 18, 2019 21:19:57 GMT
What did everyone think then? I think this will be a somewhat controversial ending but I for one enjoyed it a lot even if it was more uneven than the previous couple episodes. Thought gran's speech was very true and I thought Edith's one about being love was beautiful (maybe it was cliché but it made me cry so sod it, I loved it!) Really enjoyed this final episode and the 2 speeches you’ve mentioned were definite highlights for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 10:59:58 GMT
For me, the point of the Gran speech wasn't about politics but about personal responsibility. Throughout, the characters had been in their own little hermetically sealed lives not realising that they were the problem. For this family those particular examples used were aimed at their concerns. Another family would have needed a different set of examples to hit home as hard.
The biggest problem with the nation, for me, is that people refuse to see themselves as part of the problem or as part of the solution. Everything is somebody else's fault or somebody else's job. When that happens you get leaders who feel as though they can get away with anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 13:14:56 GMT
The only solution is actual bloody revolution, and nobody wants that. It's how they happen, though.
Some people think that putting a cross on a piece of paper makes them engaged. It really doesn't, the only way you are properly engaged is by acting on the things that concern you (in a legal manner, of course). If it's climate change, tax policy or whatever, you can't complain if you don't actively get involved.
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 19, 2019 15:59:41 GMT
Well, yes, obviously. Also true. Trouble is, there is nothing much legal that you can do to protest if you are not wealthy or able to form a pressure group with people wealthy enough to take a matter all the way. Little things....this year I have bought the Big Issue. I have bought all my new clothes from charity shops that I support. I have tried to eat more Vegan and vegetarian foods each week. I walk more places instead of getting out the car. I have requested my groceries are delivered without bags and choose green delivery slots. I am using a reusable cup on theatre visits and have bought my own water bottle and use it. I have stuck “Bollocks to Brexit” stickers on Dyson hand driers (this may not strictly be legal but I am prepared to take the chance). I have challenged old friends to think about perhaps supporting a party that likes buses when they complained about their only bus service being cut and another to actually read the Labour 2017 manifesto (they are seriously rich and think Labour are the devil....no problem with that if they have reasons but mostly based on “Corbyn is a Russian spy and wants to steal ALL your money”) I have challenged work colleagues who carelessly say the young are snowflakes or that Veganism is a fad and they don't know why it’s catching on. They may all be small acts but every time we challenge a view or do something it counts!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 18:21:17 GMT
Well, yes, obviously. Also true. Trouble is, there is nothing much legal that you can do to protest if you are not wealthy or able to form a pressure group with people wealthy enough to take a matter all the way. It isn’t so much wealth, but time. People see themselves as being very ‘time poor’. Anyone with time can make a big difference if they know what they are doing.
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 19, 2019 20:15:42 GMT
It's a philosophy, fair enough. To me, all that stuff is just everyday living. I just wouldn't have seen it as change in any particular way. Interesting. You are one of the best theatremonkey.....you help make the country a better place by moderating on here and you’ve sort of made activism (getting a good seat for a fair price) into a job with your website! Never underestimate common decency and the power of queuing....
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 19, 2019 22:13:20 GMT
Has anyone seen/read 'Cloud Atlas'? Very similar ending.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 19, 2019 23:51:22 GMT
@theatremonkey sums up my disappointment.
We spend 5 weeks with a normal, if diverse family living through a turbulent decade doing the best to survive who morph into a family of super heroes.
We all have a duty to make the world a better place, each little thing we do can/does make a difference, the difference this family makes almost obliterates this message, they have a particular skill set, contacts and opportunities (I know it is a drama and there is dramatic licence) which can be seen as the continuation of the white knight syndrome.
The one truth to take away from this episode is ‘follow the money’ nobody seems to be investigating how a second rate populist has managed to mobilise and finance all these candidates making them the most popular party in the UK, the US have the Koch brothers who is/are the British equivalent.
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Post by partytentdown on Jun 19, 2019 23:54:26 GMT
Did that Torchwood link turn up in the end?
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Post by lynette on Jun 20, 2019 12:32:09 GMT
'Little things' is interesting as an idea but doesn’t always pan out in the way desired. Remember when we objected to the air miles of those roses from Kenya? So we stopped buying them and put loads of people out of work in Kenya. The beggars up my way all have same blanket and arrive same time, dropped off by the 'owner'. So who gets the money? Vegan food! Well some manufacturers are cashing in here. And again, if we suddenly don’t eat meat? Everything has a consequence and often an unforeseen one. Funny how Ubers were condemned by the black taxi brigade when they operate in areas black cabbies don’t or won’t and when the uber is a lifesaver for old people and teenagers. The shops can easily go over to paper bags and sustain a few forests. Why don’t they? And so on.....I’m not trying to preach or put the clock back but I do think it just isn’t 'simples'.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2019 16:05:26 GMT
'Little things' is interesting as an idea but doesn’t always pan out in the way desired. Remember when we objected to the air miles of those roses from Kenya? So we stopped buying them and put loads of people out of work in Kenya. The beggars up my way all have same blanket and arrive same time, dropped off by the 'owner'. So who gets the money? Vegan food! Well some manufacturers are cashing in here. And again, if we suddenly don’t eat meat? Everything has a consequence and often an unforeseen one. Funny how Ubers were condemned by the black taxi brigade when they operate in areas black cabbies don’t or won’t and when the uber is a lifesaver for old people and teenagers. The shops can easily go over to paper bags and sustain a few forests. Why don’t they? And so on.....I’m not trying to preach or put the clock back but I do think it just isn’t 'simples'. I fear that these are the sort of things that people think is enough, token gestures. As an example of something worthwhile near me, people have taken it on themselves to clear plastics and other detritus from a river through the town. It's time consuming, it needs organising but it is having a real positive effect on the geese/ducks/fish etc. that live there.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jun 21, 2019 22:13:21 GMT
I enjoyed the series overall and the positive ending, although part of me was daring it to end grimly. Performances were good and I thought Kinnear played a blinder.
But as with Doctor Who why does RTD let Murray Gold vomit all over everything with his big thundering drummy drums and melodramatic wailing choirs?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 8:05:55 GMT
Has anyone seen/read 'Cloud Atlas'? Very similar ending. I watched it in the cinema and it confused the hell out of me, to the point I've put off reading the book a few times. I have enjoyed other David Mitchell books though, so might try it at some point.
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Post by missthelma on Jun 22, 2019 9:56:08 GMT
I thought this was very compelling television, by no means perfect, but what is? There's always things you wish had been done differently or would have written in another way but Russell T Davies is a produced writer with an excellent proven track record and I'm not so draw your own conclusions! I do still think some of the female characters were under served by the script especially Rosie, this was brought home to me last night when I couldn't remember the name of her character but could recall the other siblings and extended family. Maybe solely my fault, maybe not. And whilst it's great to see such a diverse array of characters it did feel a little like 'Quick, we haven't got a (insert minority of your choice)'. And exactly how old was Anne Reid's character by the end? Didn't she have her 90th birthday in the first episode??
The only other thing, in spoiler, in case anyone hasn't seen yet
{Spoiler - click to view} Did the ending mean the whole thing had been Edith's memories? If so, that pushes the series to a different place in regard to 'the unreliable narrator' etc as opposed to a story presented as is.
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Post by lynette on Jun 22, 2019 14:31:49 GMT
Don’t think it was the spoiler as above. I think it was alternative endings indicating a lack of faith in either one. I feel it should have ended with the riots, the ‘revolution’ and then we can make up the rest ourselves, trust the audience. The ending was to me somewhat sentimental and this undermined the whole premise of the series. Maybe like a documentary they could have written up on the screen rolling, the consequences rather matter of fact like but somebody fell in love with that pseudo science. The political and social reality were terrifying, no need for the parallel sci fi stuff.
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