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Post by sf on Aug 28, 2017 14:37:15 GMT
Was there a Queerfest run somewhere along the lines of the numerous Gay Prides - that term "Queerfest" seems to ring a bell but in a positive LGBT type event. There's one at Oxford University every year - run by the most liberal college in the university, and no-one as far as I'm aware has ever batted an eyelid at the title, it always welcomes anyone no matter how they identify. Certainly when I went it was just a day for everyone to gather together and have fun in a mini-festival atmosphere. That's not surprising. Queer theory/queer studies are established academic fields; the term "queer theory" was only coined somewhere around 1990, but a fair amount of important scholarship has since been written under that banner. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 14:45:10 GMT
It's a word I'd associate with independence and open mindedness. And I think I'd say over my lifetime, I've heard "gay" used an insult far more often than "queer". |
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Post by Jan on Aug 28, 2017 14:52:19 GMT
Odd that it is often those who self-identify as social liberals who want things banned (certain newspapers for example) and opinions contrary to their own censored. Firstly, complaining about what is said is not censorship. In fact it's evidence of the lack of it. . Firstly I am well aware what censorship is. What I had in mind, for example, are the student unions who have banned having copies of the Mail and Sun on campus - that's censorship of a form. One institution who did this via a campus-wide referendum (the tyranny of the majority) is City University who rather oddly in the circumstances also run a journalism course. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 28, 2017 14:59:14 GMT
There's one at Oxford University every year - run by the most liberal college in the university, and no-one as far as I'm aware has ever batted an eyelid at the title, it always welcomes anyone no matter how they identify. Certainly when I went it was just a day for everyone to gather together and have fun in a mini-festival atmosphere. That's not surprising. Queer theory/queer studies are established academic fields; the term "queer theory" was only coined somewhere around 1990, but a fair amount of important scholarship has since been written under that banner. The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course. I would also challenge the idea that Wadham is the most liberal college - a lot of the attitudes of many of the student body are incredibly illiberal. It likes to present a radical liberal face but there is a strict authoritarian streak that they like to pretend doesn't exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 15:00:04 GMT
I am more offended when someone calls me a homosexual than calling me gay, queer or fairy... I just think homosexual is an ugly word, that makes gay people sound like a different make of human.
I love the title fairy... why would I have a problem with being likened to a magical being with glitter and sparkle fabulousness 😅
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 15:37:58 GMT
Firstly, complaining about what is said is not censorship. In fact it's evidence of the lack of it. . Firstly I am well aware what censorship is. What I had in mind, for example, are the student unions who have banned having copies of the Mail and Sun on campus - that's censorship of a form. One institution who did this via a campus-wide referendum (the tyranny of the majority) is City University who rather oddly in the circumstances also run a journalism course. Aha, De Tocqueville! He hit on a fatal flaw in democracy and, at that micro level, yes it is just posturing but we are faced with a much more universal issue across the Atlantic. Ironically, the failsafe of the electoral college failed in its duty and we are left with generals and rogue senators to try and mitigate the excesses of that tyranny of the majority (which was actually a minority!). Hamilton will be spinning furiously in his grave. Then of course, and in a similar vein, there is the 52/48 of Brexit..... |
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Post by kathryn on Aug 28, 2017 15:39:13 GMT
People "can't keep up" because they don't want to keep up. Considering the very accessible literature and information that is available at our reach, the only excuse for not keeping up is indifference. You know that most people are not fully engaged with internet activism 24/7, right? Most people have lives - jobs, families, personal crises, hobbies and interests. The activists who spend all their time in a community - whose lives are all about campaigning - may well consider the people who don't to be indifferent. Most people *are* pretty indifferent to other people's woes, as they have enough woes of their own to be going on with. This is why it is counterproductive to go on the attack, when the relatively indifferent who want to be supportive - who recognise that other people have different woes than them and would like to not add to them, but haven't the time to be a fully-engaged activist - use the wrong words. Because you turn them away from being indifferent but supportive in principle to being upset, feeling attacked, and make them wonder why they should engage with people who have added to their own woes when they were genuinely trying not to add to theirs. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 15:45:45 GMT
Freedom of speech =/= freedom from consequence. Hate-filled rags like the Daily Mail are within their rights to publish whatever they like (I would say except hate speech, libel, and lies, but I'm pretty sure they publish all of that regularly), and we as consumers are well within our rights - legal, moral, and ethical - to say "we don't want that here", be it in our own homes, student unions, shops, wherever.
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Post by kathryn on Aug 28, 2017 15:49:07 GMT
It's a word I'd associate with independence and open mindedness. And I think I'd say over my lifetime, I've heard "gay" used an insult far more often than "queer". Certainly 'queer theory' is interested in the way that norms and boundaries can be transgressed and distorted in ways that are not just about sexuality - although sexuality is one obvious lens to use. A 'queer' reading of the female relationships in Jane Austen's books is not really suggesting that the characters or the author were lesbians, for example. |
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Post by kathryn on Aug 28, 2017 15:52:09 GMT
That's not surprising. Queer theory/queer studies are established academic fields; the term "queer theory" was only coined somewhere around 1990, but a fair amount of important scholarship has since been written under that banner. The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course.] I think posterj meant that those communities are simply familiar with the term as being conventional and not insulting, because they're likely to have encountered it in academic contexts. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 16:09:02 GMT
Ouch. Not THAT old thank you!  In that last article its suggested that we must use the word Queer because it unites us. I don't see any evidence of that in this discussion. Ooops slip of the keyboard! I didn't mean to imply you were the same age, just that HE was having a similar experience. |
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Post by sf on Aug 28, 2017 16:13:01 GMT
That's not surprising. Queer theory/queer studies are established academic fields; the term "queer theory" was only coined somewhere around 1990, but a fair amount of important scholarship has since been written under that banner. The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course. I never said it did. The point is simply that it's hardly surprising to see that particular word in an academic setting. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 16:28:05 GMT
The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course. I never said it did. The point is simply that it's hardly surprising to see that particular word in an academic setting. Exactly. And it's no more an attention-seeking title than any other event in any context. There's unsurprisingly a lot of discussion throughout the college and university (as I presume is also the case at any other university) about which terms, pronouns and identifiers can and should be used/considered acceptable. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 17:24:56 GMT
Gay as a term I don't think anyone would take offence to as the Prides are often referred to as Gay Prides and areas are known as the Gay Clubbing/Nightspots etc in a positive sense.
I'm a straight male, I know people who are gay and lesbian, I wouldn't say they are close friends. Their sexuality is nothing I've ever felt the need to discuss with them and if I was talking to them about what they had done over the weekend, any mention of the partner would be the same as a partner of a hetrosexual person etc.
Back to the term Gay, I think of it as a positive thing. I know that some people may have a rose tinted view of the "Gay Best Friend" who may be there for a woman and will always be ready with a bitchy put down to support her and also the Fabulous slightly over the top gay persona we may associate with certain gay people.
This has been an interesting and open discussion with lots of meaningful contributions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 17:32:38 GMT
Burly Bear when you say things like "Ouch. Not that old thankyou." aren't you being a little insensitive to those of us who are? Age racism is up there with a lot of other things gays have to tolerate. Not that offended because I am quite comfortable with my age but give a thought to those who are offended.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 20:38:43 GMT
On another personal note, I included Queer as a sexual identity category in my Angels in America survey after taking advice from people who both work regularly on such data collection, and are LGBTQ themselves, and the advice was that it's become an expected category to include. (I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong or that there is a right or wrong just general observations) But I think it comes down to if I describe myself as 'a bit Queer' or a friend describes their friends as 'my Queer friends' that's different to someone shouting 'Queer' in the street. BUT it's up to the indivduals if they want to use that description in their everyday life. Yes, exactly, some people self-identify as Queer. Is this a problem? No! |
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Post by joem on Aug 28, 2017 20:50:47 GMT
People can call themselves whatever they want, but the constant redefinition of what is acceptable to one group or another and the condemnation of someone who may not be up to the latest fad is Fascism a la 1984.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 21:11:40 GMT
the condemnation of someone who may not be up to the latest fad The term "up to" should be avoided as it stigmatises PWED * * PWED: People With Erectile Dysfunction |
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 28, 2017 21:14:01 GMT
Really do you need to use any term?
You don't say, Christopher over there, by the way he is straight? So why would you do the same for a Gay/Lesbian person.
Attitudes move on you look at Fawlty Towers the Germen episode and Major and Basil both used to use the 'N' word, so gather people back then found it hilarious, oddly the BBC don't repeat this anymore, I wonder why? You wouldn't use the same humour now and for very good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 21:22:25 GMT
In complete honesty, taking humour aside, I don't really believe in labels at all. Or sexuality for that manner. I believe we are all human and we can all be attracted to anyone at any time. No one is 100% gay, no one is 100% straight. That's just the truth. Ever had a mancrush/girlcrush? That's even 99% straight then haha.
I'm very easy going on the whole labels thing. Call me whatever you want, I don't care. As long as there is good intentions, I'm not gonna be a dick about it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 28, 2017 21:26:12 GMT
Really do you need to use any term? You don't say, Christopher over there, by the way he is straight? So why would you do the same for a Gay/Lesbian person. Attitudes move on you look at Fawlty Towers the Germen episode and Major and Basil both used to use the 'N' word, so gather people back then found it hilarious, oddly the BBC don't repeat this anymore, I wonder why? You wouldn't use the same humour now and for very good reason. Yes, we still do need terms as coming out is not a one off event. Assumptions are made, corrections need to be made - your choice of language is absolutely part of you and your journey. The default assumption is very much that 'Christopher over there' is straight. 'Christopher' has the right to be identified in the way that represents who he is. Taking away these terms risks taking away a key element in how people want to be seen by the world. No-one wants to be forced to wear a label - but everyone has the right to be treated and identified as the individual they are. |
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Post by tysilio2 on Aug 28, 2017 21:27:23 GMT
In complete honesty, taking humour aside, I don't really believe in labels at all. Or sexuality for that manner. I believe we are all human and we can all be attracted to anyone at any time. No one is 100% gay, no one is 100% straight. That's just the truth. Ever had a mancrush/girlcrush? That's even 99% straight then haha. I'm very easy going on the whole labels thing. Call me whatever you want, I don't care. As long as there is good intentions, I'm not gonna be a dick about it. Prefer 'knob' to 'dick' though....... |
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Post by wickedgrin on Aug 28, 2017 21:44:57 GMT
I grew up during a time when "queer" was a pejorative word. I used to be called a f****** queer. So personally I was horrified to see adverts for the BBC's Queer Season. The word has very negative personal connotations for me.
I have given up trying to keep up with words that are now considered fashionable and PC for sexual orientation, gender, disability, race etc. because if you inadvertently get it wrong people fly off into a rage! So I find it best to keep my mouth closed. Fashions change and the use of words change and what was acceptable 40 years ago is not acceptable now and words used today will become unacceptable in the future.
I for one am sorry to see the word "Gay" dropped from Gay Pride -they are now know as Pride weekends or some such. This is because it was not considered "inclusive" enough and LGBTQA and the rest of the alphabet was too ridiculous. What has happened of course is that Pride has lost it's GAY focus and has become just a huge commercial event for a city for the entire population. Let's just have a carnival!
A very interesting topic Burly Bear!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 28, 2017 22:02:06 GMT
As long as there is heteronormativity there will be a need for labels, sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:03:29 GMT
I have to say that my immediate association with the word now is not as a slur, but as a movement. Perhaps this is due to me having to write and read about 'queer literature' and so on in university for the last six years. It does seem like the word has taken a sharp turn in what it is generally accepted to mean as I definitely remember it being widely used as a slur when I was a child, but then again I would imagine the world in general is kinder to gay people now than it was even 15 years ago.
Having said that, it's not my place to use it to describe someone or to address someone, at least not without them saying that's how they wish to be described and addressed. The reclamation of a term doesn't take away the history, and it's the same as the n word in that regard.
I feel like it's similar to women affectionately calling each other bitches, but then again we haven't quite managed to stop men from calling us that yet either.
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