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Post by anita on Mar 13, 2017 11:00:48 GMT
As a grandma to quite a few little girls & boys who has had to watch the "Frozen" DVD a number of times may I just say ........I HATE FROZEN!
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Post by daniel on Apr 17, 2017 18:25:02 GMT
Patti Myron as Anna, Cassie Levy as Elsa. Jelani Alladin as Kristoff, Greg Hildreth as Olaf, John Riddle as Hans, and Robert Creighton as the Duke of Weselton. ali973 wins a point for this one! (My bold) I think Annaleigh could actually do so much better. Give it to the brainless belters. Caisey Levy is a fantastic performer and this seems to be right up her alley.
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Post by catqc on Apr 18, 2017 8:48:29 GMT
Oh dear lord is this actually happening...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:23:40 GMT
Full Cast Announced... Patti Murin - Anna Caissie Levy - Elsa Aisha Jackson - Standby Anna (yes for the multi-racial realness!!) Alyssa Fox - Standby Elsa Jelani Alladin - Kristoff Greg Hildreth - Olaf John Ridle - Hans Robert Creighton - Duke of Weselton Kevin Del Aguila - Oaken Timothy Hughes - Pabbie Andrew Pirozzi - Sven Audrey Bennett and Mattea Conforti - Young Anna Brooklyn Nelson and Ayla Schwartz - Young Elsa. Alicia Albright, Tracee Beazer, Wendi Bergamini, Ashley Blanchet, James Brown III, Claire Camp, Lauren Nicole Chapman, Spencer Clark, Jeremy Davis, Kali Grinder, Ashley Elizabeth Hale, Zach Hess, Donald Jones, Jr., Nina Lafarga, Ross Lekites, Austin Lesch, Synthia Link, Travis Patton, Adam Perry, Jeff Pew, Olivia Phillip, Noah J. Ricketts, Ann Sanders, Jacob Smith, and Nicholas Ward - Ensemble www.playbill.com/article/full-cast-announced-for-broadways-frozen
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Post by Steffi on Jun 16, 2017 19:10:24 GMT
This is one I would usually skip. Not a fan of the film at all. But I will watch Caissie Levy in literally anything and I have a friend in the ensemble. So the show will be on my "to see" list in 2018.
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Post by WireHangers on Jun 25, 2017 11:20:59 GMT
Full Cast Announced... Patti Murin - Anna Caissie Levy - Elsa Aisha Jackson - Standby Anna (yes for the multi-racial realness!!) Alyssa Fox - Standby Elsa Jelani Alladin - Kristoff Greg Hildreth - Olaf John Ridle - Hans Robert Creighton - Duke of Weselton Kevin Del Aguila - Oaken Timothy Hughes - Pabbie Andrew Pirozzi - Sven Audrey Bennett and Mattea Conforti - Young Anna Brooklyn Nelson and Ayla Schwartz - Young Elsa. Alicia Albright, Tracee Beazer, Wendi Bergamini, Ashley Blanchet, James Brown III, Claire Camp, Lauren Nicole Chapman, Spencer Clark, Jeremy Davis, Kali Grinder, Ashley Elizabeth Hale, Zach Hess, Donald Jones, Jr., Nina Lafarga, Ross Lekites, Austin Lesch, Synthia Link, Travis Patton, Adam Perry, Jeff Pew, Olivia Phillip, Noah J. Ricketts, Ann Sanders, Jacob Smith, and Nicholas Ward - Ensemble www.playbill.com/article/full-cast-announced-for-broadways-frozenAlyssa Fox is half Japanese as well so when her and Aisha are on together there'll be a Japanese and an African-American playing Disney Princesses! I absolutely adore this casting.
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Post by westendwendy on Jun 28, 2017 16:12:53 GMT
So much for a hunky blond Scandinavian playing Kristoff. I'm disappointed and it's simple PC casting. It was a white only film - historically and culturally accurate. He is meant to be a Nordic ice harvester who lives in the mountains near Arendelle! Sorry I don't buy it, I mean congratulations to Disney for embracing diversity on Broadway...now if only they'd do it more in their actual animated films...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 17:12:07 GMT
So much for a hunky blond Scandinavian playing Kristoff. I'm disappointed and it's simple PC casting. It was a white only film - historically and culturally accurate. He is meant to be a Nordic ice harvester who lives in the mountains near Arendelle! Sorry I don't buy it, I mean congratulations to Disney for embracing diversity on Broadway...now if only they'd do it more in their actual animated films... I know right. Thank heavens they're keeping the talking snowman. Shame on you Disney.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 17:52:02 GMT
^ Massive lols.
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 28, 2017 19:48:53 GMT
I mean congratulations to Disney for embracing diversity on Broadway...now if only they'd do it more in their actual animated films... I take it you never saw The Princess and the Frog, Big Hero 6 or Moana, then?
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Post by d'James on Jun 28, 2017 19:52:59 GMT
(Obviously recorded before Tangled/Frozen etc.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 20:50:25 GMT
Yeaah Disney isn't perfect on representation issues but they were actually pretty ahead of their time during the 90s renaissance. You certainly saw more non-white leads in Disney animated movies than you did in pretty much any other genre back then.
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 29, 2017 4:31:32 GMT
They're also good with casting the voices. People would object to blackface in a live action film but somehow the idea of "blackvoice" gets overlooked. Not at Disney.
(I think Disney gets a lot of criticism on the basis that large organisation = evil = any criticism must be valid. Walt Disney himself was something of a **** but that doesn't mean it's a requirement to work for the company.)
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Post by showbizkid on Jun 30, 2017 13:18:49 GMT
I mean congratulations to Disney for embracing diversity on Broadway...now if only they'd do it more in their actual animated films... I take it you never saw The Princess and the Frog, Big Hero 6 or Moana, then? I think the whole point is why didn't they do it in the film in the first place. The same with Harry Potter. Changing it later looks just like a PC move. I personally don't care if parts are played by any colour, any colour of skin - but alas it doesn't work like that.
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 30, 2017 13:34:30 GMT
I take it you never saw The Princess and the Frog, Big Hero 6 or Moana, then? I think the whole point is why didn't they do it in the film in the first place. The same with Harry Potter. Changing it later looks just like a PC move. I personally don't care if parts are played by any colour, any colour of skin - but alas it doesn't work like that. OK..... An all black cast?? I think this is a disgrace and PC blind colour casting gone too far. What about an all white cast of The Lion King? Madness... I'm sorry but it has to be said.
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Post by ali973 on Jun 30, 2017 16:00:58 GMT
You're racistt. I'm sorry, but it has to be said.
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Post by showbizkid on Jul 4, 2017 7:30:10 GMT
You're racistt. I'm sorry, but it has to be said. One T. Actually no I'm not racist - I don't think an Asian is less than a white person or that a black person is lower than a ginger haired person. I just want everything to be clear from the starting post and complete blind colour casting works every way. My point is and you still don't understand, why wasn't Kristoff black in the film then? And why can't a white person play Simba in Lion King? Surely that is racist? Hm...
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Post by talkstageytome on Jul 4, 2017 19:16:50 GMT
Eugh, we've had this discussion so many times that I think I should just make a word document with the argument written in it that I could just copy and paste on to here. In short... Non traditional (aka 'color blind') casting operates in order to provide a level playing field for underrepresented people (the same point stands for race blind, gender blind etc. casting) because representation is important and people shouldn't be boxed into playing certain roles (and often stereotypes) because of their race (or gender etc.). Literally thousands of roles are implied to be for white people, and even roles where race is not important to the character (e.g. anyone from Les Mis/Phantom... yep, non white people lived in France in the 19th Century.... shocking revelation, I know ) seem to cause controversy when a they are cast 'nontraditionally'. It's beyond me why it even matters to people... at all. Diversity is so important, as well as casting the best person for the job based on skills, rather than appearance. Also, at the end of the day it's a family musical based on a family film. Are young children really going to be tugging at their parents' sleeves and asking about the realism of the races of people living in a fictional 19th century scandinavian country? I doubt it. I'm writing this is a hurry and I'm sure someone else could phase this all much better than me right now, but in short... I can't fathom why a diverse cast could / would anger someone so much. Does it really matter that much to you? Because I'm pretty sure the impact that a diverse cast will have on its young impressionable audience is much more important than replicating the film beat for beat. Or perpetrating the lame "historical accuracy" spiel.
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Post by showbizkid on Jul 5, 2017 7:40:55 GMT
Eugh, we've had this discussion so many times that I think I should just make a word document with the argument written in it that I could just copy and paste on to here. In short... Non traditional (aka 'color blind') casting operates in order to provide a level playing field for underrepresented people (the same point stands for race blind, gender blind etc. casting) because representation is important and people shouldn't be boxed into playing certain roles (and often stereotypes) because of their race (or gender etc.). Literally thousands of roles are implied to be for white people, and even roles where race is not important to the character (e.g. anyone from Les Mis/Phantom... yep, non white people lived in France in the 19th Century.... shocking revelation, I know ) seem to cause controversy when a they are cast 'nontraditionally'. It's beyond me why it even matters to people... at all. Diversity is so important, as well as casting the best person for the job based on skills, rather than appearance. Also, at the end of the day it's a family musical based on a family film. Are young children really going to be tugging at their parents' sleeves and asking about the realism of the races of people living in a fictional 19th century scandinavian country? I doubt it. I'm writing this is a hurry and I'm sure someone else could phase this all much better than me right now, but in short... I can't fathom why a diverse cast could / would anger someone so much. Does it really matter that much to you? Because I'm pretty sure the impact that a diverse cast will have on its young impressionable audience is much more important than replicating the film beat for beat. Or perpetrating the lame "historical accuracy" spiel. Fine..... So I look forward to seeing a white Effie in Dreamgirls then!!!
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Post by ali973 on Jul 5, 2017 8:50:29 GMT
Clearly you don't get it. To approach race (and casting race) with no understanding or appreciation of how a power dynamic exists or how greatly disadvantaged minority performers are is either stemming from ignorance or purposely being obtuse. I'm really done trying to reason with this kind of foolery.
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Post by showbizkid on Jul 5, 2017 16:29:21 GMT
Clearly you don't get it. To approach race (and casting race) with no understanding or appreciation of how a power dynamic exists or how greatly disadvantaged minority performers are is either stemming from ignorance or purposely being obtuse. I'm really done trying to reason with this kind of foolery. Actually no, you clearly don't get it. I completely agree with everything you say. Why then couldn't a fat person play a thin role? Or why are Asian males rarely used in colour blind casting? Why can't we mash up every way possible? Because it's all token, PC box ticking and only works one way round (black people taking white peoples roles) that's why. That's fine and amazing but it's not fair it it's only one way. Jonathan Pryce would never be cast in Miss Siagon if it started today - THAT is my point. If Disney are all for power dynamics as you say then why not have Kristoff as black in the first place. I wouldn't have cared and THAT would have been a stronger message to society and Disney viewers all around the world.
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Post by talkstageytome on Jul 5, 2017 18:06:40 GMT
Fine..... So I look forward to seeing a white Effie in Dreamgirls then!!! .. well, no. Because race/racism in 1960s America is a significant element of the story. I sincerely hope this sort of thinking is weeded out of anyone who ever has anything to do with casting any show ever again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 19:41:17 GMT
You are right, technically there is no reason why you cant have a white simba in any future productions of The Lion King. However in the current production, the way it was conceived and the directors vision race plays a key part. They envisioned that for their version of the story the majority of the cast would be black. In fact id say the majority of people would say this aspect brings an authenticity to the show that would be lost otherwise. A future director may have a different vision.
I do agree though that there is hypocrisy when it comes to diverse casting (you only have to look at this forum when race isnt involved how often other sections of society are put down or mocked) and the majority of people dont actually want equality but positive discrimination
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Post by daniel on Jul 6, 2017 0:26:31 GMT
There was actually a white understudy Simba on the Lion King UK tour a couple of years back who I saw in Birmingham and he was very good.
I don't want to wade in on the colourblind casting argument too much, but in a nutshell my opinion is that (putting aside roles where race/origin is integral to the role i.e. Hairspray) it shouldn't matter someone's race. We should be employing the best actors and the most suitable for the role, regardless of how they look. Absolutely we should be encouraging people from underrepresented backgrounds to be able to have opportunities, but in my mind to give someone a role or job (and this goes for any industry) just because of their 'diversity' becomes a tick-box exercise and completely undermines the whole idea.
That said, if people are being denied jobs because of their diversity, then that is of course a major issue and needs addressing.
From a devils advocate point of view, could a white/Asian/Latino person play a role like Lola, or Rachel Marron that has been traditionally cast black? There's probably further examples that aren't coming to mind right now, but I wonder what roles are intended to be played by people of a particular ethnicity, versus those that are intended to not be played by a particular ethnicity...my examples being: Glinda, states Caucasian in the casting call; Javert, any ethnicity; Aaron Burr, any non-Caucasian ethnicity. Etc etc
EDIT - I feel like this is straying a bit off-topic from Frozen...is there a suitable thread in the General section that a mod could move the last few posts to?
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Post by ali973 on Jul 6, 2017 5:06:31 GMT
I just want to respond to the white Simba and white Effie nonsense first. Performers who are black, Latin, etc welcome playing roles that are traditionally white, I'm sure, such as this example in Frozen. But in reality, I am sure they are more at ease and interested in playing roles that don't require this kind of masquerade or blind casting. Roles written with POC in mind in musical theatre specifically are far and few in between, where the overwhelming majority of roles are written for (and are cast with) caucasians. So when once in a blue moon an Effie, Simba, or Rachel Marron comes along, let's not say that a white performer is also entitled for consideration.
On the politics of non-traditional casting, a lot of people talk about affirmative action or "being PC" as if it's a bad thing. This system is put in place because discriminatory actions still happen, and are in fact so ingrained in the system. So protocols need to be put in place for corrective actions and to protect individuals who continue to be disadvantaged because of their minority status. PC=not a bad thing. In fact, I ask for people to suppress whatever microagression and "light" racism they have, and yes, please be PC and tick off the damn box.
In casting world, minorities don't get a free handout or a job just because of their skin color. We're talking Disney here. They won't give these guys the job if they don't think they are capable. So I think it's interesting that we only read about "jobs should go to the most appropriate person regardless of race" only when race-blind casting is in practice. Except you don't hear this kind of language when traditional casting is in place. So yes, clearly non-traditional casting still bothers people, which is why this is said over and over again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 6:06:14 GMT
What's a 'thin role'? Unless you're in a show that directly refers to weight, there's no such thing.
The fact is, 99% of the time that colour blind casting is used, race isn't mentioned in the script. I hardly think they're going to stop in the middle of Frozen and sing a new song about how white everybody is. That's the difference between saying why can a black person be in Frozen but a white person can't be in Dreamgirls or The Color Purple. The latter two shows directly deal with race, because racism is a thing and no, white people historically have not been the victims of it. Therefore, there are no shows about how hard it is to be white. If there were, then yes it would be strange to have non-white people playing the parts.
Why does it mostly happen with black people? Well the majority of colour blind casting happens in the US where there are three times the amount of black people as there are Asian people. Not to mention different cultures have different levels of exposure and interest in musical theatre. Asian people have certainly been a part of it in the past though, notably in Hamilton and Les Miserables.
The whole point of colour blind casting is to give people of colour more opportunities. It would have made no difference if Kristoff had been black in the film because he still would have been voiced by the white Jonathan Groff, so in the films yes they may as well go for what is closer to historical accuracy. Especially as Disney have a large number of animated films concentrating on character of other ethnicities. It doesn't mean that they can't throw a black performer a bone when it goes to Broadway though. I don't know of Jelani's work but he looks the part to me, can easily see how he'd be the love interest. And if he's the best person for the part, why not?
One day maybe we'll see a new musical like Dear Evan Hansen that doesn't refer to race but has black actors playing the family members anyway. Until that time comes, I think it's fair enough that we give non-white actors an opportunity to play characters that don't have to remind them of how their race has been discriminated against every single time they go to work.
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 6, 2017 6:40:19 GMT
Performers who are black, Latin, etc welcome playing roles that are traditionally white, I'm sure, such as this example in Frozen. But in reality, I am sure they are more at ease and interested in playing roles that don't require this kind of masquerade or blind casting. Roles written with POC in mind in musical theatre specifically are far and few in between, where the overwhelming majority of roles are written for (and are cast with) caucasians The overwhelming majority of roles are not written for caucasians. The overwhelming majority of roles have no implied race or colour at all, and casting a non-white performer in such a role is not some kind of masquerade. It's true that roles written specifically as non-white are few and far between, but roles written specifically as white are few and far between as well. There are probably fewer explicitly white roles than explicitly non-white roles. Roles are often cast as if they're explicitly white, but that's a very different thing from the roles being explicitly white. And that difference is crucial. To me, what you've posted above is the problem. You refer to a non-white performer in a white role as a masquerade, but in doing so you're buying into the idea that the role is implicitly white. I believe that to make any real progress we have to step past the idea that we're being good by accepting a black person in a white role and pay attention to the fact that we shouldn't have been thinking of it as a white role in the first place. The racism is in that underlying assumption. Compensating for it by casting black people anyway is papering over the problem, not solving it.
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Post by Baemax on Jul 6, 2017 7:24:44 GMT
Re: political correctness, I always liked this from Neil Gaiman:
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Post by showbizkid on Jul 6, 2017 9:57:46 GMT
Thank you guys. Thank you. This is exactly what I am trying to say.
But on another note we should go back to Frozen! How much of the Hyperion 90 minute Disneyland current live show do you think they will use? In the Let It Go clips I think it's done tremendously well actually with the cape, staircase, projections, ice chandelier and snap costume change!!!
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Post by westendwendy on Jul 11, 2017 14:08:36 GMT
The Let It Go sequence is superb!!!
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