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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:59:10 GMT
I think you make a mistake there, the things she mentions (that I mention in above post) clearly tell that she does not interact with the material, as the remarks are actually not about the material. It's prejudice and things that are not a matter of opinion but utterly untrue statements.
If you defend her remarks: "Kim shoots herself over race. This show is about "whiteness kills you". Kim chooses Chris over Thuy because of race. The casting is yellowface." as an opinion, then you have a blind spot somewhere and then there is no need to discuss this any further with you. Because this lady is NOT interacting with the material. She is preventing interaction because of prejudice and that is not fair.
Edit: I think people like this who can't look past race, who can't see human, are a danger to society and themselves. The message of Miss Saigon is human spirit above race. I wish this lady good luck in life.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:40:20 GMT
This is not about interaction with this material. The things she claims are utterly untrue, racist and fables.
Kim does not shoot herself over race. This show is not about "whiteness kills you". Kim does not choose Chris over Thuy because of race. There is no yellowface casting anymore.
Over and out.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 23:19:24 GMT
Thanks, I know that article. What she writes is entirely not about this show. It's about things from the past she doesn't accept, other stories she is more interested in and lies about the characters and writing. Good for her that her own story doesn't contain women like that or white men at all. Other stories do.
She complains about a line of the character Chris, who has an american point of view and mistakes a character arc with the message of the show.
Remarks like these: "We hate ourselves because we are not white (the Engineer), and we will even shoot ourselves in the name of America (Kim). Why would you want to be with a Vietnamese man when you can be with a white man? Why would you want to be Vietnamese when you can be American instead?" show she is prejudiced and doesn't look at the show from a neutral point of view at all. The show's power is that it's about the human spirit and above these racist limitations. If she views Kim's suicide as a race thing or the fact that she chooses Chris over Thuy as a race thing, she should really work on herself before she visits any show at all.
"Asian women are resilient, resourceful, strong, not victims. Instead, in Miss Saigon, Kim, a woman with no last name, sings about her longing for a man to save her" This remark actually makes me positive that she has not seen the show, she just pretends she does so people might read her article.
"Don’t depend on whiteness; it will kill you." Wow, this lady has issues. I think she needs help. This show is all about being above that.
"idolize whiteness to the point of suicide?" Sure, that's Kim's motivation. Really, why is this article still online? Such racists are rare.
Aside from the complete disrespect for people in history and the Vietnam war that does not fit her preference, she also rants that she just hates this show because of "yellowface" casting and that they "rather cast white actors to play us", which hasn't happened for 20 years and has nothing to do with the production she claims to have seen.
What a bizarre article.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 16:51:43 GMT
You call the show problematic, so I was wondering what you think the problems are.
All Asian people I know think it's wonderful, understand it and see it in perspective and think it's an important and beautiful story to tell.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 14:51:51 GMT
Can you please stop this passive aggressive behaviour and explain what your problem with the show is? Because then we can get to the point. Because with accusations like this you need good arguments, which I haven't heard yet.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 13:35:55 GMT
I think that's actually only a small group of Asian people who are prejudiced and who don't understand it.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 12:33:46 GMT
It's not problematic at all. When a story portrays a certain element of history, without good or bad people, but instead shows the victims of war and an Asian girl as a strong female heroine then that's a beautiful thing. Lyrics portrayed by American characters that you don't necessarily agree with is a beautiful lesson in life and history and it's an hommage to the survivors and people who died in the horrors of the Vietnam war and how strong the human spirit is.
Every complaint I have heard was ungrounded. Kim is the heroine but some people refuse to see her as more than a prostitute. That is their fault. There were thousands of real women like this during the war, it's an hommage to them. Was everyone in real life so strong and noble as Kim? Probably not. Was everyone a prostitute? No. But that is not the point. The story is about these people and these people existed mixed with an element of a fantasy love story to be able to show that many people in the war had different stories. You can never portray all stories in 1 movie and I am personally very interested in these bar girl refugee stories. I also love that the show is critical towards Americans, as it it clear that they experienced things by their own narrative which is how it really was and that kind of storytelling really makes people learn.
Also, it's great to have a movie with an extremely mixed cast like this.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 6, 2020 10:25:19 GMT
I also think that a scene like Thuy's death/this is the hour needs to stay away from a realistic setting as far as possible and instead embrace the fantasy element. Especially after she shot him, they should put Kim in a big black space, representing the nightmare in her head, the confusion and the guilt. Smoke, a choir of ghosts, not just a trash can and a clothes line and a street with a few passers-by bleating some live recorded lines. Same goes for the dreamland scenes, last night of the world, so many sung thoughts do not represent the reality of the moment but are journeys in their minds.
I think in the film King Kong 2 has some scenes in Bangkok and the camera work is outstanding. You see the camera flying around, zooming in, fantastic editing, at one point you see the sun going under and 2 helicopters in slo-mo while their blades turn completely in sync, with certain parts sped up, which looked stunning and it reminded me about how great a MS movie could be. Almost like a haunting videoclip with the most beautiful music and cinematography you have ever seen, like a piece of art.
The other day I found this clip, and it really sounds like the end titles/end credits orchestral suite of a Miss Saigon movie to me. So many great opportunities!
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2020 22:06:54 GMT
Dom, I could say the same about your post!
It could be so great in the right hands but indeed, maybe it's better to leave it a fantasy because they will slaughter it.
I also loved the Evita film, it's one of the only musicalfilms that works. The director really understood the fantasy element of this artform on screen and understood the essence of the "better than life" and "non-literal" approach, there are so many good examples of that in this film. The editing and the way they used the music as a voiceover at times and how they have woven it into the story is great.
I also loved the dvd of the stage version of MS, but every time I watch it I long for the 1989 cast as they were so much more natural and filmic. I really wish they had filmed that one with Lea, or at least with someone like Ma-Anne Dionisio as Kim.
So what is your favorite musical? Phantom?
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2020 8:55:04 GMT
It's surprising that a film adaptation hasn't happened yet. It's one of the few musicals that would translate really well onto screen. This has been on my mind for years now. If only they find the right director who embraces the fantasy element of this artform (sung thoughts) and doesn't make it too literal. Most of the lyrics in this show are sung thoughts so for example Last Night Of the world needs to be a dream sequence, not literal in an empty concrete room with a dirty blanket and a tube of lube, but more like video clip, sweltering, romantic, hot, a fan, flowing fabric, because that how it is in their minds. Same goed for this is the hour, including the chorus parts, this film would need a very theatrical, non literal approach. They should definitely use pre-recorded tracks to support the better than life artform. Also, I think Angelica Hale would make a great Kim.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 2, 2020 8:34:08 GMT
Hamilton is a very mediocre show, a mishmash of styles and moments and musical cliche's. Headflips on last chords, characters coming out of nowhere singing 1 song, incoherent songs and scenes. Very uninspiring songs (some songs are all on 1 note). It's like a parody. A show like RENT is 100 times better in that regard.
Ramin Karimloo can't sing. He moos, lows and wails in straight hysterical tones above the actual note. He butchers songs to the point where not 1 note is on key and he creates completely new melodies. Totally unacceptable.
John Owen Jones is underrated. His is a master of the craft with a golden voice and ability to act through sung notes. Everything he does is mesmerizing and touches me. The essence of this art.
The show Dear Evan Hansen should not be allowed. It gives off the message that using the victim role to get what you want is acceptable which is a terrible message for young people.
I think that casting deliberately on race is racist and so is deliberately putting poc in every project of at least 2. We should start thinking in human. This is not the right way to do that.
Musicalfilms could be the best thing in the world in the right hands. Usually, they become disasters.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 1, 2020 21:52:19 GMT
I think all 3 versions have something special, but I think I prefer the 2nd version "Little God of My heart". It's very ominous as if something terrible is about to happen without it being too obvious, and she goes through a few stages, determined, hopeful, almost heavenly, then slightly fearful and back to determined. Out of the 3 it gives the most real and intense feeling.
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Post by Dave25 on May 31, 2020 23:31:47 GMT
Thanks guys! I found an old book of the making of Miss Saigon and there were some very interesting pages about the casting process and also about these girls. I have uploaded 5 of the pages as I thought it might be interesting for you to read. It's so cool that you got to see the original production with the first casts. imgur.com/a/Li6HXufPs. The upper photo with the tams is supposed to be at the bottom. The 2nd one is actually where the read starts.
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Post by Dave25 on May 30, 2020 15:52:47 GMT
I was wondering who was the original understudy for Kim in this production (which ensemble member). I know Lea Salonga was Kim and Monique Wilson was her alternate.
She probably became alternate too when Monique Wilson became the main Kim in 1990.
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Post by Dave25 on Apr 26, 2020 22:55:36 GMT
King George from Hamilton.
A narcissistic, deranged figure, completely separated from reality and mentally no older than 8.
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Post by Dave25 on Apr 5, 2020 9:29:26 GMT
Sorry Dave I completely forgot to add a post to explain why it was removed. The channel the video was on isn't an official one so we have to work on the basis that it’s been put there without permission of the copyright owner. No problem mate! Thanks for the explanation, I understand.
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Post by Dave25 on Apr 5, 2020 7:45:48 GMT
Oh ok, thank you! I didn't know the forum was so strict. It's not like a bootleg or anything, it was publicly released long ago and it has been on youtube for over 7 years. In any case, for anyone interested (Dom and tbfl), you know where to look
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Post by Dave25 on Apr 5, 2020 7:21:12 GMT
Oh my God, I would LOVE him to do Song and Dance (assume you mean the Sarah Brightman version). Yes, definitely the Sarah Brightman version. I have only ever seen clips of it before. Yesterday I posted a link to the full show on youtube (Sarah Brightman version, Palace theatre, it's on there), but my post was removed? Can someone explain to me why? Or was there a technical malfunction of the forum?
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 22, 2020 23:31:27 GMT
It's interesting, because "Who says I'm hurt" seems to have a lot more doubt in it too.
She sings: "Who says I'm hurt? It's as if I just woke up in the arms of a man that I don't know at all" And then in the 2nd verse: "when we met....in his eyes....he seemed lost...I took it slow.... face this love, it has to grow....he couldn't touch me for a long, long time.....kept thinking I was just a (can't make out the next part)...........but the fact is that I'm his wife"
Who says it hurts, he's the one that I want, now this girl in love comes to call, who says I'm hurt, just cause I just woke up in the arms of a man that I don't, maybe I won't ever know at all.
The part about how they've met reminds me of "Maybe" and I kind of miss that in Her or me. Also "What if he doesn't come back home tonight" was full of doubt. So it's like they took that route before, then went away from it and then came back.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 22, 2020 22:38:27 GMT
What is your favorite version of Ellen's song?
1st version
What if he doesn't come back home tonight:
2nd version
Who says I'm hurt:
3rd version
Her or me:
4th version
Now that I've seen her (version 1):
5th version
Now that I've seen her (version 2):
6th version
Maybe:
My favorite is definitely the 4th version, which is the first version of "Now that I've seen her". I really dislike the 5th version which is the second version of "Now that I've seen her". Especially because of the "I don't care" line.
I also love "Who says I'm hurt".
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2020 14:30:37 GMT
You know I've never heard anyone say woke in real life before or experienced prejudice against me for being white yet it seems to be a common problem in your life Dave. It's odd isn't it. It's not odd. Obviously people only start to use the word when they are confronted with the truth. As long as you don't do that it's not odd that you don't experience it. And this (white middle aged) woman in Starbucks did not have prejudice against me for being white, just for me calling her out on her race remarks. The people complaining about the girl's dress in Disneyland didn't have prejudice against me either, but I bet they would if I had called them out too.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2020 11:25:01 GMT
Betty and tbfl,
Thanks for your replies.
The subject of little girls dressing up as their favorite princess came to mind after the following; I was in Disneyland last year and a cute 4 year old black girl was wearing a little snow white dress (yellow skirt and blue sleeves and red ribbon) and yes, there were actually American people standing there and I heard them speak negatively about it and they used the term "whitewashing". Adults like that are poison to the mind of a child.
A few weeks ago I had a discussion with an American mom at Starbucks when I ordered a certain flavour of coffee, and she said "Oh my god, that's such a white girl sorority drink". I did not understand her and said I just like the flavour and that I'm a man and that she should keep her race remark to herself and that Starbucks is for everyone. She felt attacked by my response and called herself woke and then I asked her what she would think if I made a remark about a certain type of food saying "OMG that's such a black girl certain layer of society taste". And then she said: Well, you're just not woke yet, there is no equality so I am allowed to make these remarks and jokes and you are not. And then I said; Well, out of the 2 of us, I am the one treating people as equals and you are the one making separations based on race. Then I said, how would you feel about a black girl dressing up as snow white and a white girl dressing up as Tiana, and she actually called that last example blackface. Then I called her "asleep" and said I hope that in 100 years society will be truly woke, and that there will be real equality, without double standards in remarks, dressing up and jokes.
I can actually laugh about all kinds of jokes, also if they are about minorities or sensitive things that I am part of. But I would like to ask the both of you if you would laugh just as hard about a lyric like "I look worse than a black girl's mom", or "I am heavier than a black boy's mom" or "I ski worse than a black girl's dad". Or whatever you want to make of it. Is the race part really that funny in this context?
Also, when I was a kid I went to the carnaval dressed up and painted my face as an Indian. It was all happy and celebration. I was a blonde boy. I will also teach my nephews that that is a celebration of inclusion. That is the right path. They went to the carnaval this year as a lion and a cowboy.
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 11, 2020 9:15:22 GMT
Generally, forced "jokey" lines about race.
For example in "I can't sing" there is this line that Cynthia Erivo's character sings: "I can't sing, it's too bad, I move worse than a white boys dad......"
It's not like society or black people for that matter take the race subject lightly at the moment or are able to laugh about it in general. Maybe in 100 years, when there is no victim role anymore, and people are truly woke, so black girls in Disneyland can dress up as Snow White again if they like to, and white girls can dress and paint themselves as their favorite princess Tiana if they like to, without the current still asleep (but calling themselves woke) people screaming "blackface" at them, in other words, when there is true equality, and we start seeing human instead of race, then we can start making these jokes again.
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 12, 2020 10:43:56 GMT
In most other countries it is very common for siblings of the heir to the throne to do whatever they want and often people do not even really know what they look like as they are not often in the media and press. Some of them work in home rental industry, others work in car companies, hotels, PR, one even was a singer. So it's all relative.
I think it's the British press that makes the only difference. Also, in the eyes of the world Brexit is isolating the country in a way. Meghan is a hard working, passionate, self-made woman. Harry has always been a rebel. They want and need to be free. Not isolated. They are less limited in their world views than some people would like them to be. They want to do much more in life.
They don't want their kid to (only) grow up in the UK in its current state. I can't really blame them. Isolation and indoctrination is never the solution to anything. It's based on fear.
If I was the queen I would support them and understand that my identity is not based on my function and that personal growth and happiness is always above that.
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 9, 2020 13:32:49 GMT
Maybe we should rethink the Lidl day cream thread.... 😁 There's no harm in putting out fires while looking fresh.
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 9, 2020 13:29:52 GMT
So it might be a mix of 3 different recording days? One recording with the old Courfeyrac (aug/sept), one back up rehearsal recording of november 28 and one of the performance of december 2nd?
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Post by Dave25 on Jan 8, 2020 15:11:49 GMT
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Post by Dave25 on Dec 31, 2019 14:39:19 GMT
Are you sure they haven’t changed the name or packaging? The Q10 one in my pic says it has hyaluronic acid in it in the description. Either way for that price it might be worth trying! And if it’s any good report back ‘cos I’m looking v haggard at the mo 😀 No, it really is the blue/greenish pot with "Cien Hydro Expert Creme gel". The substance is a bit crystalline. The Q10 is a different one, more normal creme but might be worth trying indeed! haha same here, looked kind of rough, tried the creme gel and looked smooth and 15 years younger and it lasted for 3 days, powerful stuff. I think it holds 1000 times its own weight in water or something so that makes it work so well. I would have expected more people to notice this and asking for this product. They did present this aqua line in Lidl UK advertisements a few months ago, but nothing on when, for how long etc. Ps. The aqua gel does nothing, it's the creme gel that has this effect. Bought both, big difference. The hydro expert aqua gel is a normal creme and the hydro expert creme gel is crystalline and not creme. Confusing but true.
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Post by Dave25 on Dec 31, 2019 11:06:58 GMT
Thanks BurlyBeaR, Actually, you are right, I'm not , just use 1 pot of cream and that's it. It's just that this pot was really nice. I see some products of that brand on the site but not this one.
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Post by Dave25 on Dec 31, 2019 10:46:19 GMT
At the moment I am not in the UK and I have a question to the people in the UK. Last year, supermarket chain "Lidl" introduced a new line of skincare products in many European countries. www.getthegloss.com/news/lidl-launches-hyaluronic-skincare-beauty-dupeI have bought the "Cien Hydro Expert Creme Gel", which was amazing. It contains hyaluronic acid and it is the beste creme I have ever used. And it was very cheap. When it was almost empty I wanted to buy a new one but none of the Lidl locations had it anymore. It seemed like a temporary thing. There is no contact information available at all, not of the distribution centre and when you call the Lidl headquarters they have no idea and even the company "Cien" doesn't seem to exist or have any contact info or information online. Now I saw an online advert this year (from august I think) where they were presenting the same product line in Lidl supermarkets in the UK. My question is, do the Lidls in the UK have this products or are they nowhere to be found either?
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