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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 9:12:34 GMT
Yes because joking about getting revenge on someone that is being a nuisance at a theatre is the same as laughing at democracy failing. Yes. Because it's all just humour! And if we start to police humour...well, we end up in Communist Russia. Yeah I'm not one of these people that believes anything and everything is open to being joked about. Especially because 1. it's not funny and 2. you're laughing at people not with them. Sorry! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 9:13:19 GMT
Hm, most of your "legitimate concerns around Corbyn and Labour" on here are misrepresentations and smears. And it was telling that Jeremy Corbyn ran his election campaign on the Labour manfesto, not on smearing the Tories. I remember last week you were slagging off Araina Grande's One Love Manchester concert for her revealing costumes, when she in fact wore heavy jeans and sweatshirt throughout it. Then you don't remember correctly. In fact, you're putting words into my mouth that arose from the misunderstandings of others who took part in that particular debate. I'm not revisiting it here, that comversation is past. Still not seeing you addressing these concerns - just parroting the Labour line that it's all a lie from the right wing press. Despite, you know, actual evidential proof existing. How convenient not to have to think. |
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Post by vdcni on Jun 11, 2017 9:18:21 GMT
Strange, I hadn't noticed much policing of humour going on round here. Has it started now? Better revisit that 'bad behaviour' thread and censor anyone who engaged in amusing revenge fantasies there! I laugh at Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle. It doesn't mean I agree with what they're saying. Heck, most of the time THEY don't agree with what they're saying. Humour works by different rules. I swear to you, I am not making this up. I know it sounds like I am, because it suits my argument, but believe me: I used to work in a charity overrun with young lefties and the day after the referendum, this is precisely the conversation that went on. I came very close to falling out with someone over it because I couldn't believe my ears. As ever when I talk to any left-wing folk about legitimate concerns around Corbyn and Labour, they avoid all discussion about it and return to attacking the Tories. That's quite telling, wouldn't you say? Why would anyone bother given you do exactly the same. The Tories call an election to increase their majority because Theresa May wants to hold on to power and clearly hates dissent. They then run the worst campaign ever seen with Teresa May shown up to be a massively flawed leader. She then near enough ignores how damaged she is and then desperately tries to make an alliance with the DUP despite their horrible policies, their corruption and the potential damage to the peace process. Your response is to sneer at young voters for not making the 'right' choice, blaming them for the Tories own actions and trotting out the Daily Mail attack book on Jeremy Corbyn. I'm no fan of his and will still vote against him in any leadership contest but Labour turned round a huge deficit in the polls, had a moderate well recieved manifesto, unlike the Tories, and energized young people to vote which is a hell of a lot more than the Tories have managed recently. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 11, 2017 9:24:49 GMT
As ever when I talk to any left-wing folk about legitimate concerns around Corbyn and Labour, they avoid all discussion about it Maybe you don't have many Left wing friends? I'm on the Labour Left (I want renationalisation and love the idea of a vegetarian minister of agriculture, etc.) but me and my friends often talk about our concerns about the more unsavoury friendships of Corbyn and his circle, and the bullying tactics used by some of his followers. And I've had rows in the street with members of the SWP. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 10:43:28 GMT
And yet this is so similar to what I hear from my left-wing young friends; honestly. "We elect MPs to make these decisions, we shouldn't be making them ourselves." No, I couldn't believe it either. I studied German and Russian to degree level, and lived in the former East Germany not long after the wall came down. I know how Communism and socialism is done, and how repressive it is. I see some of its tricks alive and well in Putin's Russia today. I see Labour appropriating some of them, and being allowed to get away with it by unquestioning youth. (Who oddly enough are happy to question Tory decisions and opinions. All hail the Dear Leader!) The SWP, now merrily present at Labour demos and speeches, aligned with the Communist party and others to form the Stop the War coalition. Former Chair of this Coalition? All hail the Dear Leader! One of Corbyn's key advisers during this election is someone who, until a year ago, was a member of the Communist party. He quit his 40 year membership there to join Labour...but only after Corbyn became leader. Tom Watson has pointed to the infiltration of Momentum by some extremely undesirable elements. Momentum; key in galvanising the youth vote. Those who are, as you point out, too young to remember anything of Communism and I daresay in some cases any of the groups who terrorised Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and the mainland. Who are therefore happy to accept Corbyn's rather revised version of what exactly his motives were when he met with Sinn Fein historically. All hail the Dear Leader! Some Labour supporters routinely address each other as 'comrade' for heaven's sake. You may not consider this lot Communist. Fair enough. Personally, I say the connections are murky, and draping them in an acceptable cloak to pull in impressionable, idealistic young people makes them exceedingly more dangerous. In any case: sigh. My original post was merely intended to point out the irony of people voting tactically for a progressive alliance to stick it to the Tories, and ending up with the Tories and something far worse. (For now - who knows what the coming days and months will bring? Soon every conversation we have with each other may begin and end with 'comrade'!) The SWP (and their precursors) have always organised at the fringe of the labour party, same with the Blair years. It's just the way that fringe parties are attracted to larger ones. Similarly you see that confirmed with shadowy groups at the fringe of the conservatives, there is just zero mileage in looking at just one side. The overlap of UKIP, the BNP and beyond with conservative members and activists is also just as marked as labour's fringe so, again, a little balance please. You also don't seem to try and muddy the difference between communism and democratic socialism, it happened a century ago and I think that people really can spot the difference. Regarding Putin, you may not have noticed but he is aligned more with the populist right, Trump, Le Pen, Farage (who has worked for RT) etc. I agree that Putin is our enemy but look at that enemy's friends to see where the danger is. As for Ireland, past is past, I was also around during the troubles and the cold war and things are different now. my fear now, however, is that the government siding with the DUP takes us back to a destabilised Northern Ireland where meddling leads to renewed conflict. She is playing a very dangerous game. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 10:43:30 GMT
Still not seeing you addressing these concerns - just parroting the Labour line that it's all a lie from the right wing press. Despite, you know, actual evidential proof existing. How convenient not to have to think. Jeremy Corbyn slways states, when asked, that he doesn't support terrorism. I accept this as truthful. I view all the "evidence" of the Daily Mail and Michael Fallon et al as deliberate misrepresentations and smears. And they haven't had much traction with most voters, who recognise that the peace process was only possible because of dialogue, which is quite different from supporting terrorism. I know you will never agree because you have your own agenda. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 11:06:54 GMT
And yet this is so similar to what I hear from my left-wing young friends; honestly. "We elect MPs to make these decisions, we shouldn't be making them ourselves." No, I couldn't believe it either. It's not a one-or-the-other situation. To a certain extent they're right: MPs are the supposed experts in running the country. It's their job: they do it every day, and it's reasonable to believe that they're reasonably competent in doing it. It's easy to criticise the way someone does their job when you have no understanding of what their job involves, so there is an argument that as MPs are the experts in being MPs we should trust that they know something about what they're doing. After all, they have access to inside information that the public don't get to see. But at the same time they are supposed to be running the country on our behalf. They're supposed to be doing it for us, not for them. Instead we have a Prime Minister who hands out directives and expects Parliament to accept them without question. The entire reason this election was called is because Theresa May didn't like the fact that MPs were doing their jobs and debating the effects of her commandments. We elect MPs to be our representatives in Parliament, but for that to work they need a Prime Minister who actually permits them to be representatives rather than yes-men. |
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Post by lynette on Jun 11, 2017 16:17:38 GMT
Corbyn doesn't support terrorism, of course he doesn't. But he supports terrorists, some of them, sometimes. It is rather like the equivocation which is attacked in early James I's government. Reference Macbeth. Words, words, words, as Hamlet might have said.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 11, 2017 18:46:48 GMT
Corbyn doesn't support terrorism, of course he doesn't. But he supports terrorists, some of them, sometimes. It is rather like the equivocation which is attacked in early James I's government. Reference Macbeth. Words, words, words, as Hamlet might have said. Don't we all support terrorists. Can imagine, with the exception of Parsley, we all supported Nelson Mandela |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 12, 2017 16:02:36 GMT
Listening to Iain Dale on LBC a Tory MP (unnamed) was meant to appear on his show but had to cancel.
The same MP text today to Iain's show to say "sorry about missing your show on Friday, stay strong and stable."
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 12, 2017 17:40:20 GMT
Queens speech delayed??!! Was hoping for five months of coalition of chaos and tory in fighting before the inevitable election
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 14, 2017 17:40:27 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 15, 2017 19:00:58 GMT
Fallen on his sword, didn't think he was into all that. No but really, Farron wants to be at one with his prejudices.
Big Jezza seeing them off one by one
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 4, 2017 18:59:07 GMT
Even Armando Iannucci couldn't have written it.
The cough, the unfunny slagging of Corbyn, the p45, the letter falling off the wall behind her, Rudd having to encourage Johnson to his feet for a faux pas show of unity at the end was gag a minute stuff...
May being sabotaged from within her own party today?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 4, 2017 20:13:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 15:40:28 GMT
So our government has decided that as they don't have enough MPs to run the country they won't bother and will spend their time squabbling like toddlers. Over in Spain the government figures that the best way to show the Catalans that their opinions matter is to send in the heavies to prevent those opinions being expressed and then change the rules to allow businesses to move out of Catalonia more easily, which seems to be the governmental equivalent of taking your toys home with you. I've given up trying to make sense of what's going on in the United States.
It's a sorry state of affairs when Kim Jong-un wouldn't make the top three of a "most petulant leader" contest.
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