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Post by alece10 on May 23, 2021 11:32:09 GMT
I don’t think it’s a case of other countries not liking us. I can’t remember a U.K. entry in the last 25 years that was any good. So if I wouldn’t vote for us, why would I expect anyone else to? 1997 Catrina and the Waves? That was a good song and we won.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 23, 2021 11:51:53 GMT
I was thinking Gina G was the last one I really liked.
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Post by dontdreamit on May 23, 2021 12:54:01 GMT
They need to send an act like Steps in next year 🙂
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 23, 2021 14:21:27 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. We tried sending musical legend with followings in Europe.
The voting system is now so broken, the politics so entrenched that nothing will change without a complete reform of the whole thing.
Was the UK really the worst song of the night? Not by a long mile. Was it the worst vocal performance/staging? Not even close. Did so many countries deserve nil points from the voting public? No way. The EBU could not fail to hear the crowd in the arena call out 'Greece' when the Cypriot guy was asked who their 12 points were going to.
Radical change is needed to return this to being about the quality of the songwriting first and then the quality of the singing.
Yes, it is an entertainment show that has come to rely on spectacle. It needs to retain viewers. But it has to remember the core values of the competition.
If you read the Italian lyrics, there is nothing of interest or value there. It was not a well crafted song that lingers in the mind. It was not a good example of rock/metal or any part of those musical genres. Was it well staged? No. Will it feature on future Eurovision compilation CDs? No. How did it win? I just don't know. There was no hook, no shape, no development.
I knew it was going to be a poor year when the songs had all emerged and there wasn't one that I really wanted to win. There were hardly any songs that I wouldn't have minded winning.
It felt like a collection of B sides.
In the end, France was my winner but even that had a majorly flawed final section that just went a bit manic.
If next year doesn’t have songs that capture my imagination and interest, it might mark the end of my engagement with the whole thing.
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Post by anthony40 on May 23, 2021 15:08:55 GMT
Anyone else feel sorry for James Newman?
From all of the interviews I have seen with him he come across a really nice and genuine guy.
He sang his heart out and did extremely well.
What the hell went wrong?
And he took his defeat with dignity.
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Post by stuartmcd on May 23, 2021 15:15:45 GMT
See in my opinion I think the UK was one of the worst of the night. Not necessarily the worst song but it was one of the worst performances and pretty forgettable. There was a lack of energy. He sounded out of breath. It just wasn’t enjoyable to watch. I don’t think it deserved 0 points however as we have definitely sent worse. Ultimately each country can only award points to 10 countries and the UK performance was not a top 10 performance. It’s not rigged. It’s not a bad voting system. I do think we may get a bit of a harder time than other countries but we have shown that when we put the effort in then we do see better results. The UK needs to stop playing safe. To win Eurovision you need to stand out from the crowd. You have 3 minutes to put on a show and be remembered. They need to take a risk and try something new and frankly it can’t get much worse.
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Post by steve10086 on May 23, 2021 15:20:45 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. We tried sending musical legend with followings in Europe. The voting system is now so broken, the politics so entrenched that nothing will change without a complete reform of the whole thing. Was the UK really the worst song of the night? Not by a long mile. Was it the worst vocal performance/staging? Not even close. Did so many countries deserve nil points from the voting public? No way. The EBU could not fail to hear the crowd in the arena call out 'Greece' when the Cypriot guy was asked who their 12 points were going to. Sent Jade Ewen with ALW and came 5th. It can be done. And what about all the years the UK and Ireland would give each other high scores?
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Post by stuartmcd on May 23, 2021 15:25:53 GMT
And also countries voting for their neighbours isn’t necessarily politics. The UK voted for Ireland when it was Jedward. They weren’t the best on the night but they were recognisable faces to the UK audience and they got our 12 points. The entry for Cyprus this year was from Greece and this happens a lot with Greece and Cyprus. There’s a lot of crossover there. So they always give each other points. And you will find this across a lot of the other countries where the acts are recognisable and popular already. I saw somewhere that the entry for Serbia this year was already pretty popular in the Baltics.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 23, 2021 15:59:38 GMT
Is that all we pay, around 300k? I always assumed it was far more. The latest figures published are from 2012 so it will have gone up a bit since then, but it's not a huge amount by TV standards. The bulk of the cost of the show is paid for by the host broadcaster, the host city and commercial revenues - for guidance, I had tickets for Rotterdam, which was a 'fan package' ticket giving access to six shows, the jury semi-finals and final, plus the televised semi-finals and final. This was a cheaper ticket because it was the fan package. It cost €800. Obviously the BBC spends more overall on the coverage by sending the delegation to the event, paying accommodation, travel, Graham's fee etc. It will be interesting if they decide they can do more of it from the UK next year as they did this year, for example with the semi-final commentary and Radio 2 commentary being done from London. But for the viewership and the publicity, it's a good deal for them. I was told the £300k covered Olympics and World Cup/European football championships. Great value I would say
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Post by justsaying113 on May 23, 2021 16:09:01 GMT
We could easily win if we ever again enter anything vaguely decent. The Duncan Laurence win from 2019 has been a hit all over the world and has recently flown-up the US charts. It can be done.
James Newman and his song weren't appalling but it is like the track on an album you always skip.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 23, 2021 16:37:05 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. We tried sending musical legend with followings in Europe. The voting system is now so broken, the politics so entrenched that nothing will change without a complete reform of the whole thing. Was the UK really the worst song of the night? Not by a long mile. Was it the worst vocal performance/staging? Not even close. Did so many countries deserve nil points from the voting public? No way. The EBU could not fail to hear the crowd in the arena call out 'Greece' when the Cypriot guy was asked who their 12 points were going to. Sent Jade Ewen with ALW and came 5th. It can be done. And what about all the years the UK and Ireland would give each other high scores? The Ewen/ALW song was a long time ago. And it was a pretty awful bit of writing. The lyrics in particular were infantile. The main difference that year was we fully engaged with the merry-go-round of media appearances round the EBU nations. If we had been able to do that this year, we might have done better. James was clearly a popular member of the Eurovision gang judging by the reaction in the room. The initial reaction online to his song was that it was worthy of the left hand side of the board. I never really thought he would do better than about 20th. But the double zero was an unfair reflection on him and the song.
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Post by karloscar on May 23, 2021 16:40:43 GMT
You have to be in somebody's top ten songs to gain a point. Out of the 26 songs would you have put the UK entry in your top ten? I certainly wouldn't. And neither did anyone else. There's no conspiracy against us. We need to take it away from the godawful BBC producers and get ITV or Channel 4 to rethink the way we approach the whole thing.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 23, 2021 16:41:43 GMT
All of this “well other songs were worse than ours” is irrelevant. It’s not a competition to be bottom. If we’re not making it to the top 5, even the top 10 then wherever we come after that doesn’t matter. I’d also say it’s not about quality songwriting. Boom Bang A Bang? Puppet On A String? The aforementioned Gina G’s Ooh Ah Just A Little Bit? It’s hardly Cole Porter is it? It’s about mass appeal and cultural crossover. And we’re apparently crap at that.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 23, 2021 16:57:35 GMT
You have to be in somebody's top ten songs to gain a point. Out of the 26 songs would you have put the UK entry in your top ten? I certainly wouldn't. And neither did anyone else. There's no conspiracy against us. We need to take it away from the godawful BBC producers and get ITV or Channel 4 to rethink the way we approach the whole thing. There were 39 juries and 39 voting publics - I would have expected that at least one would have liked it enough to put it in their top 10. I would have expected a far more positive reaction to the Netherlands - I didn't rate the song - but I could imagine why others might. San Marino doing so badly with the public was another big shock. I know these things are unpredictable. But it was a very odd set of scores on many levels.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on May 23, 2021 17:05:46 GMT
See in my opinion I think the UK was one of the worst of the night. Not necessarily the worst song but it was one of the worst performances and pretty forgettable. There was a lack of energy. He sounded out of breath. It just wasn’t enjoyable to watch. I don’t think it deserved 0 points however as we have definitely sent worse. Ultimately each country can only award points to 10 countries and the UK performance was not a top 10 performance. It’s not rigged. It’s not a bad voting system. I do think we may get a bit of a harder time than other countries but we have shown that when we put the effort in then we do see better results. The UK needs to stop playing safe. To win Eurovision you need to stand out from the crowd. You have 3 minutes to put on a show and be remembered. They need to take a risk and try something new and frankly it can’t get much worse. It wasn't the worst song. But he sounded so vocally tired - he did say in interviews, he has just been rehearsing in his hotel room. Maybe he knackered himself out? Not excusing him but he really did show a lot of valour when it came to the announcement that he had come last. You can tell he's a nice guy and popular personality wise. We do need to take a risk. Our entries are always the same. It's boring.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 23, 2021 17:12:24 GMT
We want it too much too. We need to chill out, not give a **** and stop TRYING so hard to find the magic formula. Some countries have never won or have rarely won. We don’t have a divine right to it just because we have a huge Eurovision fan base and have won a few in the past.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on May 23, 2021 17:13:58 GMT
We want it too much too. We need to chill out, not give a **** and stop TRYING so hard to find the magic formula. Some countries have never won or have rarely won. We don’t have a divine right to it just because we have a huge Eurovision fan base and have won a few in the past. 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES. WELL SAID.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 23, 2021 18:11:07 GMT
We want it too much too. We need to chill out, not give a **** and stop TRYING so hard to find the magic formula. Some countries have never won or have rarely won. We don’t have a divine right to it just because we have a huge Eurovision fan base and have won a few in the past. This
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Post by sph on May 23, 2021 18:58:10 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. Blue aren't really camp enough for Eurovision though. Steps would be more fitting. Was the voting political? I'm not a Eurovision fan but... maybe. Other countries don't like the UK, but at the same time everyone wants to live here. Bit of old-fashioned begrudgery maybe.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 23, 2021 19:25:42 GMT
Given the strength in the global market of UK acts - including all over Europe - it isn't that we aren't capable as a nation of producing music with broad international appeal.
I don't honestly believe that we have been seeking a magic formula any more than many other countries. We have sent a broad range of styles over the past decade and nothing has landed well.
There is no magic formula (no matter what Love Love Peace Peace might suggest)
What we do see is one song winning or doing really well and a whole raft of countries try to copy the same 'winning' formula the following. With almost no success.
If you look at Italy since they returned to the competition, they have tried all sorts: gimmicky with a gorilla suit, the popular but not popular enough Soldi, the operatic and then they win with faux metal/rock. There is no method in that.
I genuinely believe that we need a voting system that ranks from top to bottom not just a top 10. At present you can come 11th with every jury and every national vote and end up with absolutely no points at all. Then we get a real reflection of how the songs have been received and whilst it will not radically change results, it will be transparent and more fair.
There are those who say that songwriters/performers should be limited to citizens of each nation. There are some virtue in that sort of change. Another call has been for the languages sung to be limited to the official languages of each nation.
But the voting is what really needs to change. Once that is perceived to be more fair, more credible UK acts might be persuaded to enter. This year we sent a very experienced and talented songwriter with a number of international credits to his name. And he will now be more famous for having got nil points.
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Post by karloscar on May 23, 2021 19:59:01 GMT
Rating every song from top to bottom would be totally impractical and would take forever. And the outcome would probably be the same. The winners win for a reason.
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Post by n1david on May 23, 2021 22:02:30 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. We tried sending musical legend with followings in Europe. Blue won the public vote across Europe. They got very few votes from the juries. They've subsequently admitted that they didn't realise that the juries would be voting based on their Friday night performance and so they weren't trying too hard. In particular Lee didn't try for his big note because he didn't think it mattered. They could have done much better than they did. But someone didn't explain to them how Eurovision worked and that they needed to be at their peak on both Friday and Saturday nights. Someone got that wrong. And frankly, that sums up the problem with the BBC's approach to the competition. How could Blue get to the stage on the night before the competition and not understand what they were doing there?
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Post by ncbears on May 24, 2021 1:53:04 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 24, 2021 8:00:14 GMT
We tried sending an established band with Blue. Blue aren't really camp enough for Eurovision though. Steps would be more fitting. Was the voting political? I'm not a Eurovision fan but... maybe. Other countries don't like the UK, but at the same time everyone wants to live here. Bit of old-fashioned begrudgery maybe. Not sure we should mess around with Steps. Ed Sheeran, Adele, Coldplay or nothing
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Post by emsworthian on May 24, 2021 9:10:59 GMT
Right Said Fred are camp enough for Eurovision and are popular in eastern Europe (my brother went to one of their concerts in one of the Baltic states). Are they still performing?
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