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Post by nick on Nov 12, 2020 15:52:33 GMT
I literally had a conversation with my grandad about it (less than an hour ago) and he’s in his 80s and he doesn’t know whether to have it or not. According to him, ‘they’re making it all up as they go along’. I had to point out that of course they are - it’s a new vaccine built from scratch in record time. This is not quite true - it's a novel virus, so a new vaccine, but the techniques being used to create the vaccine are not new. They are settled science. They didn't have to invent a new process to create a vaccine, they just had to apply existing processes to new raw material. And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released.
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Post by Jan on Nov 12, 2020 16:32:14 GMT
This is not quite true - it's a novel virus, so a new vaccine, but the techniques being used to create the vaccine are not new. They are settled science. They didn't have to invent a new process to create a vaccine, they just had to apply existing processes to new raw material. And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released. Well it's not true at all for the Pfizer vaccine - it uses messenger RNA which is a very new technique (only a few years old) and there hasn't been a single vaccine that's been approved anywhere in the world using it. The Oxford vaccine is more conventional.
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 12, 2020 16:58:47 GMT
Well are they even going to be offering it to the under 50s? Read several things today suggesting the reckon by covering the 50+ they'll cover 99% of likely covid deaths and they might stop there. I'd be very hacked off if they didn't. Given there have been numerous mentions of how vaccines are not always as effective in older people, due to weakening immune systems, surely they need to vaccinate all ages of the population to get the overall occurrence minimised in case the vaccine isn't as effective for older people. Otherwise you could vaccinate only older people, relax all the social distancing measures, the virus rate skyrockets, then, oops, they discover the vaccine isn't entirely effective for older people & the death rate rockets. And that's before the issue of younger people getting long covid. I know that at my age I'm highly unlikely to die of covid but I'm terrified of getting long covid & being ill for months or even years.
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Post by vickyg on Nov 12, 2020 17:00:50 GMT
I will definitely be in the queue but I don't see my turn coming for quite some time. I'm 36 and unless I somehow count in the NHS group (I do work for the NHS in a hospital but I'm non clinical) I can't imagine this will be until 2022 at the earliest from looking at the priorities list. I'm very much looking forward to my mum and her partner getting it though so that I can go to visit them and even *gasp* sit on the same couch as them!
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Post by lynette on Nov 12, 2020 17:08:28 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then.
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Post by talkingheads on Nov 12, 2020 17:25:11 GMT
It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. There's a colossal difference between something that would only benefit you and something that could save the lives of many others, not just you...so no, they aren't comparable. Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery.
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Post by vickyg on Nov 12, 2020 17:33:58 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. Hopefully there will be a step change in testing and they really can use the 'vaccine or negative test' method to allow people to go back to the theatre and other fun. I'm trying to pretend none of this is happening as we all know timelines drag on and on and fun now seems almost close enough to be real! Strangely I'm finding that much harder than being in indefinite lockdown!
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Post by kathryn on Nov 12, 2020 17:53:42 GMT
And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released. Well it's not true at all for the Pfizer vaccine - it uses messenger RNA which is a very new technique (only a few years old) and there hasn't been a single vaccine that's been approved anywhere in the world using it. The Oxford vaccine is more conventional. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906799/As of January 2018, technology(ies) to produce them had been developed and a number of different vaccines had been trialled successfully. There had been some human trials, with some adverse reactions in a proportion of recipients. Appropriate approval protocols hadn't been fully developed yet. That was before we were in a pandemic, though. The benefit of this method of production over the traditional method is speed of development and scale of manufacture. One of the main use cases over the traditional method is viral epidemics, because of that speed and scale. There's nothing quite like necessity to get things done. I suspect they've worked out those approval protocols now. There's no doubt we will need to have both types of vaccine available, and the traditional type will be indicated for some groups who may have adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccine. But honestly, they're not making it up as they go along. They know how to make them, and they know how to test them for safety and effectiveness.
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Post by Jan on Nov 12, 2020 18:15:27 GMT
There's a colossal difference between something that would only benefit you and something that could save the lives of many others, not just you...so no, they aren't comparable. Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ?
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Post by poster J on Nov 12, 2020 18:50:18 GMT
Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ? No, it would affect everyone as you would be choosing not to reduce your risk of catching and spreading it...
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Post by nick on Nov 12, 2020 18:52:19 GMT
Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ? It’s a statistics game. We need (I think) around a 60% take up of the vaccine to make it worthwhile. So we need a majority to take the plunge. That’s also why I’d be surprised if we had to wait until 2022 for the final people to be offered it. My order would be: NHS Vulnerable and their carers/household Students (as the potential big spreaders who the gvt want back in action). People who work in front facing jobs especially involving travel (airline staff for example but also teachers, theatre staff and cafe workers). Parents of school age children. Children Everyone else
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 12, 2020 19:11:12 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, any doctor or healthcare worker who refuses to get it should be banned from working in a clinical setting. That is a ridiculous unnecessary risk as well as a terrible example. I too will negatively judge anyone who doesn't get it unless they have a proven medical reason for not doing so (and I don't mean a self-certified one like the mask exemptions). I can understand them not routinely vaccinating younger people (aside from the vulnerable) immediately given there won't be infinite doses of the vaccine immediately available, but the goal should still be to require everyone to get it. I'm not expecting my turn to be before 2022, but will get it the minute it is offered to me. It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. Your not related to Dominic Cummings?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 12, 2020 19:26:45 GMT
It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. Your not related to Dominic Cummings? poster J not every eye condition is suitable for lazer eye surgery. I had it done last year and its one of my better choices. Plus I now have 2020 vision #smug
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 20:14:00 GMT
Your not related to Dominic Cummings? poster J not every eye condition is suitable for lazer eye surgery. I had it done last year and its one of my better choices. Plus I now have 2020 vision #smug ... and not to mention the cost of having laser eye surgery. Honestly, the original comparison was just plain silly.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 12, 2020 20:22:21 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. You wouldn't have recognised audiences between lockdowns. No one at all coming in from the provinces, mostly 20 and 30-somethings (plus a few die-hards like me - I use the phrase advisedly!). Glad you are looking forward to better times ahead
In relation to the vaccines, I see mention of NHS people but the workers formerly known as 'key' seem to have been omitted this time. pfft!
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 12, 2020 20:22:53 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. I've already told my mother that if she can resume theatregoing before I can I will be LIVID!
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Post by Mark on Nov 12, 2020 22:08:42 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others? Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 12, 2020 22:11:12 GMT
eeeeeeeexactly!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 22:33:27 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others? Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most. It really isn’t hard to work out. Theatre is a business. It isn’t going to sit around and wait for the entire British population to be vaccinated in the interest of fairness - it’s going to get itself up and running as quickly as it can. As far as I’m aware no company has come out and said they will be offering the vaccine at a price to the general public. Considering governments around the world are queuing up to but the vaccine, I can’t see it being sold into the private sector until much further down the line.
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Post by Mark on Nov 12, 2020 22:38:06 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others? Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most. It really isn’t hard to work out. Theatre is a business. It isn’t going to sit around and wait for the entire British population to be vaccinated in the interest of fairness - it’s going to get itself up and running as quickly as it can. As far as I’m aware no company has come out and said they will be offering the vaccine at a price to the general public. Considering governments around the world are queuing up to but the vaccine, I can’t see it being sold into the private sector until much further down the line. Yeah, highly doubt it will fly for those of us who are fit and healthy and low risk of coronavirus not being allowed to do normal things before vaccinated people. I'll go to the theatre vaccine or not as soon as I'm able to (basically, next month again).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 8:51:00 GMT
It really isn’t hard to work out. Theatre is a business. It isn’t going to sit around and wait for the entire British population to be vaccinated in the interest of fairness - it’s going to get itself up and running as quickly as it can. As far as I’m aware no company has come out and said they will be offering the vaccine at a price to the general public. Considering governments around the world are queuing up to but the vaccine, I can’t see it being sold into the private sector until much further down the line. Yeah, highly doubt it will fly for those of us who are fit and healthy and low risk of coronavirus not being allowed to do normal things before vaccinated people. I'll go to the theatre vaccine or not as soon as I'm able to (basically, next month again). Being fit, healthy and at a lower risk of death does not mean you can’t catch the virus or continue to spread it. So enjoy your theatre going whilst it lasts, because frankly your post stinks of ego and self entitlement.
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Post by theatreian on Nov 13, 2020 9:51:09 GMT
The huge increase in cases yesterday is being blamed on the rush to the pubs at the last minute by frankly all the selfish individuals who could not care whether they catch it or not or who they spread it to. Just to get a last minute drink. It is no surprise that we do not have a handle on this yet.
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Post by poster J on Nov 13, 2020 10:39:49 GMT
Yeah, highly doubt it will fly for those of us who are fit and healthy and low risk of coronavirus not being allowed to do normal things before vaccinated people. I'll go to the theatre vaccine or not as soon as I'm able to (basically, next month again). Being fit, healthy and at a lower risk of death does not mean you can’t catch the virus or continue to spread it. So enjoy your theatre going whilst it lasts, because frankly your post stinks of ego and self entitlement. Bit harsh. There is nothing wrong with what Mark is doing provided he is taking appropriate precautions like mask and hand sanitising, which he would have to be even to get into a theatre. Not all of us have to be hermits until we get a vaccine, I certainly won't be, I'll be taking precautions and getting on with life like anyone else who is at low risk should be able to.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 11:13:22 GMT
Being fit, healthy and at a lower risk of death does not mean you can’t catch the virus or continue to spread it. So enjoy your theatre going whilst it lasts, because frankly your post stinks of ego and self entitlement. Bit harsh. There is nothing wrong with what Mark is doing provided he is taking appropriate precautions like mask and hand sanitising, which he would have to be even to get into a theatre. Not all of us have to be hermits until we get a vaccine, I certainly won't be, I'll be taking precautions and getting on with life like anyone else who is at low risk should be able to. I don’t think it’s harsh at all. Mark is complaining about being excluded from theatre if they demand audiences have had the vaccine in order to attend (like Ticketmaster have already announced)... presumably because he is in one of the groups going to get the vaccine last. Theatre is going to increase capacity and remove social distancing as soon as they can, and will most likely use the ‘prove you’ve been vaccinated’ thing as a legitimate way of putting every seat back on sale. Someone saying ‘it won’t fly’ that ‘fit, healthy, low risk people’ will be excluded - which is a fancy way of saying younger people won’t stand for it - is nothing short of ego and entitlement. Just because you are less likely to die from it does not mean you can’t catch it nor spread it. The vaccine isn’t a miracle cure. They don’t know how long it works for or if we will need seasonal top ups. Plus vaccines are supposedly less effective the older you are. Therefore expecting to be able to mix with people who have been vaccinated simply because you’re at a lower risk of death or being petulant saying ‘it won’t fly’ is exactly what I said it was.
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 13, 2020 11:30:00 GMT
Let's put the Ticketmaster story to bed, shall we? I'm not going to describe it as fake news...but it was.
I sometimes can't believe what I'm reading. Surely nobody wants to live in a society where people are given some sort of mark and separated into groups. History has shown it never ends well.
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Post by Mark on Nov 13, 2020 12:43:52 GMT
Yeah, highly doubt it will fly for those of us who are fit and healthy and low risk of coronavirus not being allowed to do normal things before vaccinated people. I'll go to the theatre vaccine or not as soon as I'm able to (basically, next month again). Being fit, healthy and at a lower risk of death does not mean you can’t catch the virus or continue to spread it. So enjoy your theatre going whilst it lasts, because frankly your post stinks of ego and self entitlement. Im sorry that you have such a backward way of thinking. Theatres reopen in three weeks. They aren't going to stop people going who aren't vaccinated immediately - there won't be enough buyers because it will be a slow process. Time to let people get on with their lives. People like you would see everyone locked up until they were vaccinated. It's not going to happen. And now that the ticketmaster story has been deemed "fake news", I highly doubt vaccination will ever be a requirement to go into a venue.
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Post by nick on Nov 14, 2020 6:58:57 GMT
Re: private vaccinations
Surely the rich and influential are going to jump the queue SOMEHOW. There must be a private source for those people?
Roll on the revolution!!! Power to the people.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 14, 2020 12:30:53 GMT
This thread is specifically about whether individuals will have the vaccine. I appreciate that it’s difficult when topics cross like this but can we try to keep general discussion about the virus on the coronavirus thread please.
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Post by jojo on Nov 14, 2020 18:58:30 GMT
I'll be having the vaccine, but I'm going to have to wait a while as I'm not high risk.
I am a bit worried about the anti-vaxxers trying to scare people out of getting the jab, but it definitely shouldn't be mandatory, and it would be playing into the hands of the anti-vaxxers if the government were to so much as hint at it being so.
Recent polling suggested that about 60% of the population currently say they'd have the vaccine, but it's hard to tell if they are people who are thinking 'stick it in me now', or also include those who intend to read more once the trials are finished, and got regulatory approval. I expect there's another 20% or so who are a bit wary of having a brand new vaccine, but will have those fears melt away once it's been used safely for a few months.
Then there will be some who don't want to have it because they just don't like needles or don't want the hassle and are relying on enough other people getting it to keep them safe. They're the selfish ones, but I see some of them changing their minds quickly enough as soon as they realise they can't go abroad without a certificate, or realise that a day or so of mild flu-like symptoms is better than worrying about catching the virus.
There are some people can't take vaccines, or for whom they won't work. That's why I hope as many people as possible will take it once it's got proper approval. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an additional delay before it gets approval for pregnant women, as far as I can tell, these trials will not lead to approval for under-18s either. I presume extra checks and testing will be required for them, and possibly people with allergies and other conditions. But if even 80% of health care workers and those 70+ can be successfully immunised ASAP, then it relieve a great deal of pressure from the health service.
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Post by joem on Nov 19, 2020 11:22:26 GMT
I will not take the vaccine under any circumstances whatsoever. My body belongs to me and me alone. I am a very healthy person, I don't think I've ever had flu in my life, and I take sufficient precautions to ensure I don't catch this virus and I will not be subjected to an invasive and unnecessary pollution of my . I believe the hysteria over coronavirus is causing, has caused, and will cause, far more deaths than the virus itself will cause directly.
I am astonished that many people who describe themselves as liberal, progressive and so forth are prepared to support the state in an assault. It is a form of abuse, and has no place in a free society.
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