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Post by lynette on Nov 12, 2020 13:25:50 GMT
I’m old enough to know that vaccination is a life saver and I have benefited from all available as have my kids. Those were 20th century vaccines, the miracle of science. Without them I would have succumbed to any one of a list of diseases we don't even bother to worry about now - smallpox, polio, measles etc etc...and now I am recipient of flu, influenza and shingles vaccines. All to help me live a healthier, more active life for longer.
As time goes on we shall have more vaccines and the COVID one is just the first of another batch as it were as we move into the dangerous territory of global movements of people and fast paced communications. Or we are already in it and COVID has caught us by surprise.
The worries about whether the vaccine will harm you is understandable as we haven’t had the debate publicly for a while. We haven’t had to worry. The anti vaxxers have brought it up again but are mainly discredited. The vaccine might harm somebody...as all medicine is not for all people. We know that.
Roll up your sleeves, people.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 12, 2020 14:04:17 GMT
I wouldn't trust Americans on any aspect of healthcare. BioNTech who are the developers are a German company. Who is in control of the data collation and analysis set?
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Post by christya on Nov 12, 2020 14:31:37 GMT
I'll happily get it as soon as it's either offered to me or I can pay to get it privately.
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Post by kathryn on Nov 12, 2020 15:22:58 GMT
I literally had a conversation with my grandad about it (less than an hour ago) and he’s in his 80s and he doesn’t know whether to have it or not. According to him, ‘they’re making it all up as they go along’. I had to point out that of course they are - it’s a new vaccine built from scratch in record time. This is not quite true - it's a novel virus, so a new vaccine, but the techniques being used to create the vaccine are not new. They are settled science. They didn't have to invent a new process to create a vaccine, they just had to apply existing processes to new raw material. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 12, 2020 15:49:13 GMT
I’m old enough to know that vaccination is a life saver and I have benefited from all available as have my kids. Those were 20th century vaccines, the miracle of science. Without them I would have succumbed to any one of a list of diseases we don't even bother to worry about now - smallpox, polio, measles etc etc...and now I am recipient of flu, influenza and shingles vaccines. All to help me live a healthier, more active life for longer. As time goes on we shall have more vaccines and the COVID one is just the first of another batch as it were as we move into the dangerous territory of global movements of people and fast paced communications. Or we are already in it and COVID has caught us by surprise. The worries about whether the vaccine will harm you is understandable as we haven’t had the debate publicly for a while. We haven’t had to worry. The anti vaxxers have brought it up again but are mainly discredited. The vaccine might harm somebody...as all medicine is not for all people. We know that. Roll up your sleeves, people. Interesting what you mention, my cousin had the polio vaccine about 50 years ago, the side effects for her, was that she was brain damaged and left in vegetable state, she is still alive in a nursing home but bed ridden, with no quality of life. So vaccine should’ve me running for the hills, but I have it in me to accept this is a very very rare occurrence and the benefits of having the vaccine hugely out weight this. ART therapy for HIV and AIDS you used to have to take a combination of drugs that attacked the virus in different ways. Now I believe patients just have a single tablet a day, with that tablet doing the same job as several tablets years ago. So I imagine every year patients will just have a single vaccine that attacks both Flu and Covid in time. Be interesting to see if the Johnson and Johnson and the Oxford/AstraZeneca drug will raise the bar. But this should not minimise the great news of this vaccine. |
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Post by nick on Nov 12, 2020 15:52:33 GMT
I literally had a conversation with my grandad about it (less than an hour ago) and he’s in his 80s and he doesn’t know whether to have it or not. According to him, ‘they’re making it all up as they go along’. I had to point out that of course they are - it’s a new vaccine built from scratch in record time. This is not quite true - it's a novel virus, so a new vaccine, but the techniques being used to create the vaccine are not new. They are settled science. They didn't have to invent a new process to create a vaccine, they just had to apply existing processes to new raw material. And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released. |
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Post by Jan on Nov 12, 2020 16:32:14 GMT
This is not quite true - it's a novel virus, so a new vaccine, but the techniques being used to create the vaccine are not new. They are settled science. They didn't have to invent a new process to create a vaccine, they just had to apply existing processes to new raw material. And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released. Well it's not true at all for the Pfizer vaccine - it uses messenger RNA which is a very new technique (only a few years old) and there hasn't been a single vaccine that's been approved anywhere in the world using it. The Oxford vaccine is more conventional. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 12, 2020 16:58:47 GMT
Well are they even going to be offering it to the under 50s? Read several things today suggesting the reckon by covering the 50+ they'll cover 99% of likely covid deaths and they might stop there. I'd be very hacked off if they didn't. Given there have been numerous mentions of how vaccines are not always as effective in older people, due to weakening immune systems, surely they need to vaccinate all ages of the population to get the overall occurrence minimised in case the vaccine isn't as effective for older people. Otherwise you could vaccinate only older people, relax all the social distancing measures, the virus rate skyrockets, then, oops, they discover the vaccine isn't entirely effective for older people & the death rate rockets. And that's before the issue of younger people getting long covid. I know that at my age I'm highly unlikely to die of covid but I'm terrified of getting long covid & being ill for months or even years. |
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Post by vickyg on Nov 12, 2020 17:00:50 GMT
I will definitely be in the queue but I don't see my turn coming for quite some time. I'm 36 and unless I somehow count in the NHS group (I do work for the NHS in a hospital but I'm non clinical) I can't imagine this will be until 2022 at the earliest from looking at the priorities list. I'm very much looking forward to my mum and her partner getting it though so that I can go to visit them and even *gasp* sit on the same couch as them!
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Post by lynette on Nov 12, 2020 17:08:28 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then.
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Post by talkingheads on Nov 12, 2020 17:25:11 GMT
It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. There's a colossal difference between something that would only benefit you and something that could save the lives of many others, not just you...so no, they aren't comparable. Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. |
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Post by vickyg on Nov 12, 2020 17:33:58 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. Hopefully there will be a step change in testing and they really can use the 'vaccine or negative test' method to allow people to go back to the theatre and other fun. I'm trying to pretend none of this is happening as we all know timelines drag on and on and fun now seems almost close enough to be real! Strangely I'm finding that much harder than being in indefinite lockdown! |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 12, 2020 17:53:42 GMT
And that’s partly not true either. Some of the vaccines are using new techniques. However I accept your general thrust that there will be vaccines developed using tried and tested methods. And I will definitely be in the queue for any that are released. Well it's not true at all for the Pfizer vaccine - it uses messenger RNA which is a very new technique (only a few years old) and there hasn't been a single vaccine that's been approved anywhere in the world using it. The Oxford vaccine is more conventional. As of January 2018, technology(ies) to produce them had been developed and a number of different vaccines had been trialled successfully. There had been some human trials, with some adverse reactions in a proportion of recipients. Appropriate approval protocols hadn't been fully developed yet. That was before we were in a pandemic, though. The benefit of this method of production over the traditional method is speed of development and scale of manufacture. One of the main use cases over the traditional method is viral epidemics, because of that speed and scale. There's nothing quite like necessity to get things done. I suspect they've worked out those approval protocols now. There's no doubt we will need to have both types of vaccine available, and the traditional type will be indicated for some groups who may have adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccine. But honestly, they're not making it up as they go along. They know how to make them, and they know how to test them for safety and effectiveness. |
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Post by Jan on Nov 12, 2020 18:15:27 GMT
There's a colossal difference between something that would only benefit you and something that could save the lives of many others, not just you...so no, they aren't comparable. Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 18:50:18 GMT
Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ? No, it would affect everyone as you would be choosing not to reduce your risk of catching and spreading it... |
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Post by nick on Nov 12, 2020 18:52:19 GMT
Bloody hell calm down. I was only saying it's comparable in the sense that I wouldn't trust someone who wears glasses telling me to get laser eye surgery. Well, if I didn't choose to have the vaccine it would only potentially impact me and other people who didn't choose to have the vaccine wouldn't it ? So what's the problem there ? Young children won't be vaccinated - also not a problem is it ? It’s a statistics game. We need (I think) around a 60% take up of the vaccine to make it worthwhile. So we need a majority to take the plunge. That’s also why I’d be surprised if we had to wait until 2022 for the final people to be offered it. My order would be: NHS Vulnerable and their carers/household Students (as the potential big spreaders who the gvt want back in action). People who work in front facing jobs especially involving travel (airline staff for example but also teachers, theatre staff and cafe workers). Parents of school age children. Children Everyone else |
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 12, 2020 19:11:12 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, any doctor or healthcare worker who refuses to get it should be banned from working in a clinical setting. That is a ridiculous unnecessary risk as well as a terrible example. I too will negatively judge anyone who doesn't get it unless they have a proven medical reason for not doing so (and I don't mean a self-certified one like the mask exemptions). I can understand them not routinely vaccinating younger people (aside from the vulnerable) immediately given there won't be infinite doses of the vaccine immediately available, but the goal should still be to require everyone to get it. I'm not expecting my turn to be before 2022, but will get it the minute it is offered to me. It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. Your not related to Dominic Cummings? |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 12, 2020 19:26:45 GMT
It's the same reason I didn't get laser eye surgery because it was suggested to me by my optician - he wears glasses. Your not related to Dominic Cummings? @posterj not every eye condition is suitable for lazer eye surgery. I had it done last year and its one of my better choices. Plus I now have 2020 vision #smug |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 20:14:00 GMT
Your not related to Dominic Cummings? @posterj not every eye condition is suitable for lazer eye surgery. I had it done last year and its one of my better choices. Plus I now have 2020 vision #smug ... and not to mention the cost of having laser eye surgery. Honestly, the original comparison was just plain silly. |
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 12, 2020 20:22:21 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. You wouldn't have recognised audiences between lockdowns. No one at all coming in from the provinces, mostly 20 and 30-somethings (plus a few die-hards like me - I use the phrase advisedly!). Glad you are looking forward to better times ahead 
In relation to the vaccines, I see mention of NHS people but the workers formerly known as 'key' seem to have been omitted this time. pfft!
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 12, 2020 20:22:53 GMT
Just struck me that if they vaccinate the old ‘uns first the West End will be full of the usual wrinkles in the theatres! No change there, then. I've already told my mother that if she can resume theatregoing before I can I will be LIVID! |
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Post by Mark on Nov 12, 2020 22:08:42 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others?
Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 12, 2020 22:11:12 GMT
eeeeeeeexactly!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2020 22:33:27 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others? Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most. It really isn’t hard to work out. Theatre is a business. It isn’t going to sit around and wait for the entire British population to be vaccinated in the interest of fairness - it’s going to get itself up and running as quickly as it can. As far as I’m aware no company has come out and said they will be offering the vaccine at a price to the general public. Considering governments around the world are queuing up to but the vaccine, I can’t see it being sold into the private sector until much further down the line. |
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Post by Mark on Nov 12, 2020 22:38:06 GMT
Why would vaccinated folk be allowed at the theatre before others? Don't see it happening to be honest, otherwise it will just encourage people who can to pay for a vaccine and delay for other people who actually need it most. It really isn’t hard to work out. Theatre is a business. It isn’t going to sit around and wait for the entire British population to be vaccinated in the interest of fairness - it’s going to get itself up and running as quickly as it can. As far as I’m aware no company has come out and said they will be offering the vaccine at a price to the general public. Considering governments around the world are queuing up to but the vaccine, I can’t see it being sold into the private sector until much further down the line. Yeah, highly doubt it will fly for those of us who are fit and healthy and low risk of coronavirus not being allowed to do normal things before vaccinated people. I'll go to the theatre vaccine or not as soon as I'm able to (basically, next month again). |
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