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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 26, 2020 18:29:56 GMT
Will they though? Even before this, reports of various luminaries prior to DC breaking lockdown did not send me running for the outside. Iâm concerned enough about my health, and that of my family to think âyou tosser, Iâm staying homeâ. I think it does a huge disservice to the population to suggest that this one man breaking rules means everyone will/can break rules. Unless weâre of the opinion that people in this country are a bit stupid. Are they? And as I said earlier, the rule breakers in the population will break rules regardless of DC. Not to create too much of a fuss but the population must be pretty stupid based on the pictures of packed beaches over the weekend. There have been many reports of lockdown breaches WAY before the DC revelations. Itâs been all over the media. If the population are âpretty stupidâ itâs not down to one person theyâve seen in the news. Do you think the population of this country is pretty stupid? |
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Post by zahidf on May 26, 2020 18:38:51 GMT
It's not just DC though.
For example, if someone has symptoms now and has a child, theyll sort out childcare before self isolating. This will spread the virus more.
Also, no one really believes Cummings ridiculous eye test story. He wanted to go to a castle for his wifes birthday. Good luck getting people to not go to beaches now.
Before, the govt line was is you had symptoms YOU MUST QUARANTINE IMMEDIATELY TO HELP SOCIETY AND STOP THE VIRUS SPREAD. Now, they've said you can decide when you can isolate or not. Good luck getting people who have been in contact with someone with the virus to immediately stay at home for 14 days.
They've blown up their public healthcare message to save one mans career. Its pathetic.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 26, 2020 18:58:52 GMT
Not to create too much of a fuss but the population must be pretty stupid based on the pictures of packed beaches over the weekend. There have been many reports of lockdown breaches WAY before the DC revelations. Itâs been all over the media. If the population are âpretty stupidâ itâs not down to one person theyâve seen in the news. Do you think the population of this country is pretty stupid? Yes. |
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1,970 posts
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Post by sf on May 26, 2020 19:04:18 GMT
Do you think the population of this country is pretty stupid? SOME of them, yes. And we're in a situation where a small number of people behaving stupidly could significantly endanger the rest of us. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 20:26:49 GMT
Even in a population that needed to be told that washing hands and coughing into tissues helps stop the spread of disease, I still find it difficult to believe that the message people are going to take away from all the ridicule and anger aimed at Cummings is "We should do what he did".
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Post by talkingheads on May 26, 2020 20:39:20 GMT
Even in a population that needed to be told that washing hands and coughing into tissues helps stop the spread of disease, I still find it difficult to believe that the message people are going to take away from all the ridicule and anger aimed at Cummings is "We should do what he did". I think most people won't. The most worrying thing is that those who do can use that as an excuse and there is no rebuttal that could reasonably be given by a police officer. |
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1,970 posts
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Post by sf on May 26, 2020 20:55:01 GMT
Even in a population that needed to be told that washing hands and coughing into tissues helps stop the spread of disease, I still find it difficult to believe that the message people are going to take away from all the ridicule and anger aimed at Cummings is "We should do what he did". I went to the supermarket yesterday. The couple in front of me in the queue conducted a strenuous argument with the security guard on the door, who wanted one of them to wait outside while the other one shopped. It's been this particular chain's policy to ask people to do this if possible since about 48 hours after the lockdown began. At this point, two months in, there is no way these people were unaware of this policy. They were not old/infirm/in any way disabled, and it's not as if either of them needed assistance to shop (and I'm probably more aware of those concerns than a lot of people because from about mid-2015 until she became completely housebound at the beginning of last year my mother could basically only manage a supermarket shop if somebody went with her, and that somebody was almost always me). They just didn't think this rule should apply to them, and they were quite vocal about it. We have evolved into a country in which there are a lot of very, very self-absorbed people. In a pandemic in which the protective measures we're all being asked to adopt exist as much to protect other people from us (given that the nature of this particular disease is that people can be contagious for several days before they begin to show symptoms) as to protect us from other people, that's potentially very dangerous. |
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Post by adolphus on May 26, 2020 21:17:51 GMT
Yes, if you want to break lockdown, quote Cummings.
If Cummings had been contrite and apologised to suffering citizens alongside saying he believed he was doing the right, the only thing for his family at the time, this story could perhaps have faded. But the fact is that he is incapable of any sort of humility and was bent on unapologetic total self justification from the start, and that has kept the story going. The PM and the rest of the Cabinet have spent the last few days devoting all their energy defending his lofty, unapologetic stance and even lauding his integrity, and this has made them in turn look like fools and liars. Even Gove on LBC today ended up laughing at his own attempts to justify the eyesight trip.
Johnson should have ordered Cummings on Saturday morning to go and eat humble pie, but unfortunately that is not how this relationship works.
Cummings' ego and Boris enslavement to it is the real reason this story, this huge, dangerous distraction in the midst of a pandemic, lumbers on.
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Post by londonpostie on May 26, 2020 21:27:48 GMT
Not to create too much of a fuss but the population must be pretty stupid based on the pictures of packed beaches over the weekend.
It's usually a construct, created with particular types of wide angle lenses. Example:
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Post by theatremadness on May 26, 2020 21:34:09 GMT
Daily Mail conducted a poll of 1,038 adults online yesterday. Obviously it's just an online poll, but still interesting reading. Overall percentages in bold, percentages of Conservative voters in brackets. Also puts Johnson and Starmer almost neck and neck in leadership ratings.
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Post by xanady on May 26, 2020 21:40:02 GMT
Just seen most of the press front pages for tomorrow.Has the DC story moved on? Absolutely not!
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Post by talkingheads on May 26, 2020 21:48:36 GMT
Not a sentence I ever thought I'd write but well done Daily Star, outstanding front page.
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Post by xanady on May 26, 2020 22:06:59 GMT
We now officially have a laughing stock govt...Laura Kuennsberg reckons 4 cabinet ministers want DC out and over 40 Tory MPâs are set against him remaining.All other issues have been buried by this one story.
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Post by talkingheads on May 26, 2020 22:12:02 GMT
I honestly think Boris could go over this. It's obviously selling papers and as long as it is the papers will keep leading with it, keeping it fresh in people's minds. The pressure can only build so high.
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Post by kathryn on May 26, 2020 22:15:05 GMT
Cummings' ego and Boris enslavement to it is the real reason this story, this huge, dangerous distraction in the midst of a pandemic, lumbers on. Indeed, this story is as much about Johnsonâs woeful lack of decisive leadership as it is about his advisorâs behaviour. When the advisor becomes the story, when they detract from the ability of their boss to do the job of leading the country, the advisor had to go. Regardless of whether their actual behaviour was justified or not. That Johnson cannot follow this cast-iron rule of politics is a sign of his weakness. |
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Post by zahidf on May 26, 2020 22:15:06 GMT
8% of people believe the eyesight excuse for the castle drive:-)
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Post by vdcni on May 26, 2020 22:52:46 GMT
Wow that poll is brutal and clearly the story has cut through if even the Daily Star is leading on it.
So much for the no one cares outside of the Westminster bubble line.
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Post by paddy72 on May 26, 2020 23:27:54 GMT
Good Radio 4 documentary tonight tracing back the origins of coronavirus in the UK. It puts the blame right on the government for not shutting down all the major sporting fixtures much much sooner. At the time the govt and itâs advisors did not consider them a close contact risk. Mad. Have they never been to a match. In particular Mapping now shows the huge impact of Cheltenham Gold Cup which still took place after the WHO declared a global pandemic and the Athletica Liverpool match that still went ahead as Spain went into lockdown and Madrid was even offering travelling supporters refunds on travel costs to the match. Interestingly Boris was also as the Twickenham rugby match along with other MPs the weekend before. The government knew the risks of these events and still didnât shut them down.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 6:35:23 GMT
Lol if you want to find evidence at all the âstupidâ people breaking the rules before DC then you donât have to look very far from this thread....
I remember when we were allowed an hours exercise a day and the amount of well respected contributors to this forum discussing the hours and hours of cycling they were getting done in the empty streets of London or the several hours of country walks they were doing a day justifying it by saying they got up early so less people around.
Pretty sure you just have to look in thread from a couple of months ago to find all the people that were happy to share when the rules didnât apply to them.....
However, of course, they ainât (prob) a moral authority in this country so the hypocrisy doesnât taste as disgusting as when itâs coming out of âtheirâ mouths
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 6:43:16 GMT
I remember when we were allowed an hours exercise a day and the amount of well respected contributors to this forum discussing the hours and hours of cycling they were getting done in the empty streets of London or the several hours of country walks they were doing a day justifying it by saying they got up early so less people around. Where do you get the idea we were only allowed an hour of exercise? Some people may have claimed that was a reasonable time, but it's what the law says that matters: Section 6 of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020
(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the needâ
...
(b) to take exerciseâ
(i) alone,
(ii) with one or more members of their household, or
(iii) with one member of another household;
(ba) to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeingâ
(i) alone,
(ii) with one or more members of their household, or
(iii) with one member of another household; |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 27, 2020 6:49:41 GMT
Did you see Gove on LBC yesterday. Started a sentence with 'I have driven before to test eyes...' paused and the presenter said 'I would love to hear how you are going to get out of this one'.
He he
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Post by kathryn on May 27, 2020 9:10:47 GMT
betty you are confusing the general lockdown advice about exercise with the isolation rules. The former were a lot more flexible than the latter, for very good reason. Exercise within your local area was explicitly allowed - the hour limit was a suggestion to try and avoid parks etc becoming crowded. If you could socially distance effectively you could exercise for longer than that. The isolation rules for households where anyone was symptomatic were absolute, and the advice was for non-symptomatic members of the household to socially distance within the house. Sitting in a car together for hours was in itself ignoring the guidelines.
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Post by vdcni on May 27, 2020 9:29:09 GMT
Did you see Gove on LBC yesterday. Started a sentence with 'I have driven before to test eyes...' paused and the presenter said 'I would love to hear how you are going to get out of this one'. He he You see I get that it's funny in an absurdist way but to me that just sums up the real horror of this situation. People have died alone and people have been trapped alone dealing with grief, unable to get even a comforting hug from family and then a cabinet minister is happy to go on the radio and knowingly bullsh*t like this, actually suggest you would go driving to test your eye sight. Even if you accept Cumming's exceptional circumstances line that required him to drive to Durham potentially spreading the virus, and I don't, I don't see how you can accept how the government have chosen to handle this, to lie and rewrite history all to save one government adviser. They've made it so clear how little they think of us, how little our lives matter. And in the middle of the biggest global health crisis in a century where trust and civic duty matter more than ever. |
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Post by vickyg on May 27, 2020 9:41:56 GMT
Lol if you want to find evidence at all the âstupidâ people breaking the rules before DC then you donât have to look very far from this thread.... I remember when we were allowed an hours exercise a day and the amount of well respected contributors to this forum discussing the hours and hours of cycling they were getting done in the empty streets of London or the several hours of country walks they were doing a day justifying it by saying they got up early so less people around. Pretty sure you just have to look in thread from a couple of months ago to find all the people that were happy to share when the rules didnât apply to them..... However, of course, they ainât (prob) a moral authority in this country so the hypocrisy doesnât taste as disgusting as when itâs coming out of âtheirâ mouths Wow. As others have said the rules were around one period of outside exercise. The reference to an hour came from Michael Gove saying he 'would have thought' that about an hour would be appropriate depending on a person's fitness level. That was in no way part of the rules, it was clearly a suggestion and reference to it was as a result of repeating what Michael Gove said rather than reiterating it as a rule. |
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Post by adolphus on May 27, 2020 11:01:22 GMT
Tobias Ellwood and another MP who called for Cummings to go have been excluded from tonight's meeting of the Liaison Committee, no doubt on Cummings' orders.
More than even Brexit, this government will be defined by and judged on its (mis)handling of the pandemic, and although the Cummings story will fade from the headlines, it will forever be among the controversies surrounding their response
It's not going to go away, and a lot of Tory MPS who are hoping it will may well regret their silence come the next election campaign
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