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Post by The Matthew on Oct 29, 2020 11:43:07 GMT
I think Wales got their knickers in a twist with the 'essential items only from Tesco' rule In my opinion this "essential items only" idea is completely the wrong approach. As I said during the first lockdown, far too many people in positions of authority were treating it as a type of house arrest where we'd all been confined for some imagined wrongdoing and needed to shut up and take our punishment like good little prisoners. I remember one police force inspecting people's shopping; an intolerable abuse of power. And then there was Derbyshire, publishing photographs of people alone in the countryside with a narrative of "Look at these idiots, putting everyone at risk by going ... nowhere ... near ... anyone ... else". They should be encouraging anything safe that helps people keep their spirits up.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 29, 2020 12:04:05 GMT
The ‘essentials items’ protocol was put in place to support the smaller retailers who were forced to close. The major supermarkets with no caveats would be able to sell items such as T-Shirts, Toasters.... that could have or would have been bought in the shops forced to close and these sales would have been lost forever and maybe would be bought in these smaller shops when allowed to open again. With internet shopping it’s value is almost non-existent but at least there was an attempt to protect the smaller retailers. inews.co.uk/news/uk/wales-supermarket-restrictions-explained-essential-items-list-firebreak-covid-lockdown-736105
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Post by CG on the loose on Oct 29, 2020 12:20:29 GMT
The ‘essentials items’ protocol was put in place to support the smaller retailers who were forced to close. The major supermarkets with no caveats would be able to sell items such as T-Shirts, Toasters.... that could have or would have been bought in the shops forced to close and these sales would have been lost forever and maybe would be bought in these smaller shops when allowed to open again. With internet shopping it’s value is almost non-existent but at least there was an attempt to protect the smaller retailers. I hadn't seen that explanation and as you say, with online shopping, it's of almost no value. The reason I'd seen was that it was intended to limit time in store, which does at least seem vaguely sensible, if poorly executed.
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Post by lynette on Oct 29, 2020 16:35:27 GMT
The ‘essentials items’ protocol was put in place to support the smaller retailers who were forced to close. The major supermarkets with no caveats would be able to sell items such as T-Shirts, Toasters.... that could have or would have been bought in the shops forced to close and these sales would have been lost forever and maybe would be bought in these smaller shops when allowed to open again. With internet shopping it’s value is almost non-existent but at least there was an attempt to protect the smaller retailers. I hadn't seen that explanation and as you say, with online shopping, it's of almost no value. The reason I'd seen was that it was intended to limit time in store, which does at least seem vaguely sensible, if poorly executed. I did read both explanations and neither really make sense ‘on the ground’. If you need a kettle during a pandemic you probably get it on the one shop you have to do, that is the food shop and hey, did you know supermarkets sell such things? If you are the sort of person who reads the ingredient list on every item of food, then are you going to stop doing this now? No. So in the real world it is a good thing that Tesco sells kettles. And daft to stop them.
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Post by poster J on Oct 29, 2020 20:38:19 GMT
I've just been sat outside freezing to enjoy a glass of wine with a colleague to put the world to rights about our stressful work situation and it was intensely annoying watching the number of groups sat indoors (in London) who quite evidently were not from the same household (or bubble given how many were at each table).
No wonder so many people are getting fed up and wondering why they should bother when so many others are carrying on as usual and enjoying life far more.
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Post by theatreian on Oct 29, 2020 22:46:57 GMT
No wonder so many people are getting fed up and wondering why they should bother when so many others are carrying on as usual and enjoying life far more. It is annoying when you see that. It is also the venues themselves who should take some responsibility as they should be acting more responsibly.The more this sort of thing happens the longer this is going to go on .
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Post by The Matthew on Oct 30, 2020 5:41:08 GMT
No wonder so many people are getting fed up and wondering why they should bother when so many others are carrying on as usual and enjoying life far more. It is annoying when you see that. It is also the venues themselves who should take some responsibility as they should be acting more responsibly.The more this sort of thing happens the longer this is going to go on . I think the fines need to be increased. Back in March there was justification for being lenient with people coming to terms with having to do everything in a new way but after 7½ months there are no excuses.
I've heard of stories of venues that have put a six-person limit on groups so a customer thinks they'll outwit the system by booking a table for six and then turning up with nine people and asking for three extra chairs at the table. Under the best of circumstances that would make the staff hate you with a passion, and it's amazing how angry people get when their toddler-level ploy doesn't get them what they want.
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 30, 2020 8:25:21 GMT
It is annoying when you see that. It is also the venues themselves who should take some responsibility as they should be acting more responsibly.The more this sort of thing happens the longer this is going to go on . I think the fines need to be increased. Back in March there was justification for being lenient with people coming to terms with having to do everything in a new way but after 7½ months there are no excuses.
I've heard of stories of venues that have put a six-person limit on groups so a customer thinks they'll outwit the system by booking a table for six and then turning up with nine people and asking for three extra chairs at the table. Under the best of circumstances that would make the staff hate you with a passion, and it's amazing how angry people get when their toddler-level ploy doesn't get them what they want.
The trouble is they can increase fines all they want, but the question remains how do you prove you're from the same household? Utility bill? It can't realistically be done and relies on people sticking to the rules.
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Post by The Matthew on Oct 30, 2020 12:09:04 GMT
While pondering the fact that I'll soon need to buy another pack of toilet rolls I got to wondering: How many of the people who stripped the shop shelves bare of toilet paper back at the start of the year are still working their way through their dust-cloaked stock?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 13:07:18 GMT
While pondering the fact that I'll soon need to buy another pack of toilet rolls I got to wondering: How many of the people who stripped the shop shelves bare of toilet paper back at the start of the year are still working their way through their dust-cloaked stock? Dust-cloaked? Why each of my precious rolls is warmly ensconced in its own silk bag lined with fleece in anticipation of these cooler times ahead. Each bag hangs gracefully on its own wall peg. When viewed from afar it is enough to almost make you think you're at the Tate Modern peering at an installation that no doubt is destined for the permanent collection.
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Post by Jan on Oct 30, 2020 13:19:44 GMT
I've just been sat outside freezing to enjoy a glass of wine with a colleague to put the world to rights about our stressful work situation and it was intensely annoying watching the number of groups sat indoors (in London) who quite evidently were not from the same household (or bubble given how many were at each table). I was at an expensive restaurant in the heart of London's glittering Theatreland yesterday, indoors it was almost full and I made the same observation. However, there is a legal loophole you may not be aware of - work colleagues from any number of households can book a table in groups of up to 6 as long as the meal is "work-related". Several restaurants are advertising this.
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Post by poster J on Oct 30, 2020 13:54:42 GMT
I've just been sat outside freezing to enjoy a glass of wine with a colleague to put the world to rights about our stressful work situation and it was intensely annoying watching the number of groups sat indoors (in London) who quite evidently were not from the same household (or bubble given how many were at each table). I was at an expensive restaurant in the heart of London's glittering Theatreland yesterday, indoors it was almost full and I made the same observation. However, there is a legal loophole you may not be aware of - work colleagues from any number of households can book a table in groups of up to 6 as long as the meal is "work-related". Several restaurants are advertising this. Oh I'm well aware of that loophole - there was no sign of any work purpose for those gatherings! Plus neither my colleague nor I felt comfortable exploiting what is clearly a ridiculous loophole that renders the restriction almost a nullity when coupled with the number of people I see on social media who are clearly willingly breaking the rules...
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Post by sfsusan on Oct 30, 2020 14:41:49 GMT
No wonder so many people are getting fed up and wondering why they should bother when so many others are carrying on as usual and enjoying life far more. Yes, I find it annoying, too, and wonder why that's not me. Then I have to remind myself it's not worth dying over. There is a Samuel Pepys quote going around which is apparently fake, but *should* be true: "The taverns are fair full of gadabouts making merry this eve. And though I may press my face against the window like an urchin at a confectioner’s, I am tempted not by the sweetmeats within. A dram in exchange for the pox is an ill bargain indeed."
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Post by sph on Oct 30, 2020 17:44:46 GMT
While I understand people's frustrations it has to be said that every inch of this country is covered in pubs and restaurants. That's a LOT of people who depend on them for a living. If a pub or restaurant has to close at 10pm and is only allowed to have customers from the same household... how are they going to survive?
It's all very well for those with a secure wage to criticise, but as long as these places are open they have bills and staff to pay. They can't afford to police people and turn them away at the door.
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Post by The Matthew on Oct 30, 2020 18:08:36 GMT
It's all very well for those with a secure wage to criticise, but as long as these places are open they have bills and staff to pay. They can't afford to police people and turn them away at the door. All the pubs I go to are managing perfectly well with restrictions in place and are enforcing them. It's probably different for town-centre drinking establishments but many of the dining pubs are rarely at full capacity for most of the week, so apart from Saturday evening and Sunday lunch they're generally handling nearly as many people now as they would have been at the same time last year. There's some loss of business but it's certainly not a case of half the capacity meaning half the income.
That's obviously not the case for establishments that cater to the serious-drinking crowd, but given how much a risk those represent we can't really afford to keep them open. I don't think there are that many of them around these days anyway. Pub culture has changed a lot over the last couple of decades and it's become much more of a family environment with an emphasis on food and relaxation.
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Post by sph on Oct 30, 2020 19:40:27 GMT
It's all very well for those with a secure wage to criticise, but as long as these places are open they have bills and staff to pay. They can't afford to police people and turn them away at the door. All the pubs I go to are managing perfectly well with restrictions in place and are enforcing them. It's probably different for town-centre drinking establishments but many of the dining pubs are rarely at full capacity for most of the week, so apart from Saturday evening and Sunday lunch they're generally handling nearly as many people now as they would have been at the same time last year. There's some loss of business but it's certainly not a case of half the capacity meaning half the income.
That's obviously not the case for establishments that cater to the serious-drinking crowd, but given how much a risk those represent we can't really afford to keep them open. I don't think there are that many of them around these days anyway. Pub culture has changed a lot over the last couple of decades and it's become much more of a family environment with an emphasis on food and relaxation.
I think that's far from the truth and anyone working in the hospitality industry would disagree with everything you just said. Many venues are struggling or have already closed and are certainly not "managing perfectly well". And if restaurants were already not at full capacity last year, what chance do they have now that they can only have people from the same household? A pub is a social environment. Some cater to families yes, but it's hard graft getting the customers in at the best of times. I come from a restaurant and hotel family, I worked restaurants for years, my parents are still in the restaurant business. I've seen all of this with my own eyes, and I saw it from the other side, not as a casual patron who just decides "oh I see people here, I'm sure it's doing fine." "My paycheck is safe. The hospitality industry will just have to manage," say the civil servants. It truly blows my mind that this is the approach people have.
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Post by The Matthew on Oct 30, 2020 19:51:35 GMT
I think that's far from the truth and anyone working in the hospitality industry would disagree with everything you just said. I got what I said from talking to people in the hospitality industry. YMMV, of course, but I'm not just making stuff up. Perhaps it depends what sort of places you go to. I mostly go to out-of-town places where the rents are lower and where there's a high proportion of loyal regulars rather than passing traffic. It's obviously going to different for a town centre site that needs to operate close to capacity to cover the higher costs and where chance trade makes up a significant part of the takings. But I already said that.
It's not easy, but people are making it work.
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Post by sph on Oct 30, 2020 20:03:42 GMT
I think that's far from the truth and anyone working in the hospitality industry would disagree with everything you just said. I got what I said from talking to people in the hospitality industry. YMMV, of course, but I'm not just making stuff up. Perhaps it depends what sort of places you go to. I mostly go to out-of-town places where the rents are lower and where there's a high proportion of loyal regulars rather than passing traffic. It's obviously going to different for a town centre site that needs to operate close to capacity to cover the higher costs and where chance trade makes up a significant part of the takings. But I already said that.
It's not easy, but people are making it work.
The people you have spoken to may be doing ok, but I have a feeling that a nationwide survey of the sector would suggest a very different story. This winter is going to be exceptionally hard for them - even a very quick search will bring up many articles that show that no, people are not in fact, "making it work." The actual facts and figures are pretty grim.
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Post by theatreian on Oct 30, 2020 23:01:57 GMT
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Post by Phantom of London on Oct 30, 2020 23:49:07 GMT
I had to have a test on Tuesday and thankfully it was negative, as I was showing symptoms. I knew my results less than 24 hours later,.so full praise to the government for getting testing right. However this was not the case for my colleague Andy, who died from Covid on last Friiday, So it is very real..
With some of the youth not wearing masks and many of these live in multi-generational households, the results are going to be terrible, along with some of the Brexiter type tradespeople following a similar theme of not mask wearing.
So a lockdown is now the only way forward. I am vulnerable because of conditions and was shielded, but because I am in an essential service I have to go to work, where the journey to and from work by train absolutely petrifies me. This virus is totally out of control. We learned earlier this year, if you follow the science Covid can be controlled, albeit taking a sledgehammer to the economy and the populations enjoyments.
My garden is looking brilliant and I planted rouble 500 bulbs, so would like to be around to see the results. However Covid and a strong economy will not co-exist, as people will be reluctant.
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 30, 2020 23:56:46 GMT
Inevitable. I was just beginning to get a tiny glimmer of hope that I might visit a friend, see a show. But no. A combination of a selfish minority and an omnishambles of a Government leads us to this.
What I want to know is their plans post lockdown. Because Track and Trace still doesn't work and there are so many things to consider. Surely we must be at a point where a Universal Basic Income is a must? It is clear now that any attempt to get the economy back to where it was will not work with Covid.
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Post by poster J on Oct 31, 2020 0:33:24 GMT
Even with that the government are completely thick - how does locking down the country but leaving open the main sources of infection spreading solve anything?!
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 31, 2020 13:01:54 GMT
Press conference at 4PM today with Johnson, Whitty and Valance.
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Post by theatreian on Oct 31, 2020 14:39:15 GMT
Press conference at 4PM today with Johnson, Whitty and Valance. It has now been put back to 5pm!! Keeping us in suspense for another hour or maybe because the rugby is on!!
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 31, 2020 15:49:16 GMT
Press conference at 4PM today with Johnson, Whitty and Valance. It has now been put back to 5pm!! Keeping us in suspense for another hour or maybe because the rugby is on!! They can't even be on time for a press conference they organised never mind organise a second lockdown!
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Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 31, 2020 16:00:08 GMT
Doesn’t matter it has been leaked at the original time.
Starts 00:01 on Thu and though not specifically stated we can assume that Theatres will have to close
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Post by talkingheads on Oct 31, 2020 16:11:23 GMT
Honestly, what is the point in any of this if thousands of kids are mixing in schools?
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Post by poster J on Oct 31, 2020 17:13:24 GMT
Honestly, what is the point in any of this if thousands of kids are mixing in schools? My thoughts exactly - though include universities as well. The whole point is to try to reduce the number of hospital admissions at any one time, yet the major sources of infection and spread are not being closed and those who are, on the whole, taking adequate precautions are losing their livelihoods again. You couldn't make it up. Thank goodness my hairdresser had last minute availability today...!
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Post by CG on the loose on Oct 31, 2020 17:19:01 GMT
After a very vivid 'COVID was a dream' dream a few days ago (SO depressing when I woke up for real), last night I dreamt my hair (which was shoulder length in February and hasn't been cut since) had grown past my waist. I'm just hoping it wasn't a portent of when I can next get it cut!
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Post by CG on the loose on Oct 31, 2020 17:19:39 GMT
Oh and press conference further delayed... Press Association are saying 6.30pm, but who the hell knows!
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