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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 12:06:16 GMT
The government messaging is very mixed at the moment. Wear masks, but go out to restaurants and pubs to eat and drink -activities that are impossible while wearing a mask. Keep (sort of) distancing, but get onto public transport and into your offices, even if you could easily continue to work from home. Generally, go places and do things where you will be in closer proximity to more people, but if you catch coronavirus it's your own fault for getting too close to too many people. They’ve fixated on thIs idea that ‘people don’t like being told what do’. It’s a pandemic, one of the reasons that government is there for is to mandate measures for the good of all. I stopped taking them as any sort of guide a while ago, better to listen to nations who have done a good job (and I include Scotland in that) and people who were right in the first place. Those fateful weeks in March, where they planned to let the virus rip through us, will go down in history as a turning point, I hope. |
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Post by olliebean on Jul 12, 2020 12:16:37 GMT
They’ve fixated on thIs idea that ‘people don’t like being told what do’. It’s a pandemic, one of the reasons that government is there for is to mandate measures for the good of all. I stopped taking them as any sort of guide a while ago, better to listen to nations who have done a good job (and I include Scotland in that) and people who were right in the first place. Those fateful weeks in March, where they planned to let the virus rip through us, will go down in history as a turning point, I hope. I hope so too, but I fear this government may yet have some way to go - and some tens of thousands more unnecessary deaths to facilitate - before they reach the limit of what they will, ultimately, get away with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 12:36:55 GMT
The government messaging is very mixed at the moment. Wear masks, but go out to restaurants and pubs to eat and drink -activities that are impossible while wearing a mask. Keep (sort of) distancing, but get onto public transport and into your offices, even if you could easily continue to work from home. Generally, go places and do things where you will be in closer proximity to more people, but if you catch coronavirus it's your own fault for getting too close to too many people. They’ve fixated on thIs idea that ‘people don’t like being told what do’. It’s a pandemic, one of the reasons that government is there for is to mandate measures for the good of all. I stopped taking them as any sort of guide a while ago, better to listen to nations who have done a good job (and I include Scotland in that) and people who were right in the first place. Those fateful weeks in March, where they planned to let the virus rip through us, will go down in history as a turning point, I hope. I really don't think people are as confused as many here are claiming. There's no question that the government screwed up catastrophically in March. One of the points I've tried to reinforce is that if one country has a lockdown when they have 100 cases and another has a lockdown when they have 1000 it doesn't mean the second country has 900 more cases but 10 times more, along with 10 times more need for medical equipment, 10 times more deaths, 10 times more everything. Prompt action is paramount, but we had a week of faffing about while the situation grew an order of magnitude worse and we've been paying the price for that delay ever since. But despite that I think people do understand what they need to do to protect themselves. On this forum there's a strong attitude of " I'm smart enough to know what to do but everyone else is an idiot" and I don't think that's justifiable. Where I am it's clear that people are still actively protecting themselves. I had to go to the shops this morning and everyone is carefully skirting round everyone else or standing in queues two metres apart. There are signs on bus stops telling people how to travel safely. Shops have screens up and warning signs, and people are following them. Pubs have one-way systems and people are following those too. There doesn't appear to be any confusion at all. There are a few idiots around who ignore all the rules but that has always been the case: it's because they don't care, not because they're confused. |
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Post by sf on Jul 12, 2020 12:40:47 GMT
The government messaging is very mixed at the moment. Wear masks, but go out to restaurants and pubs to eat and drink -activities that are impossible while wearing a mask. Keep (sort of) distancing, but get onto public transport and into your offices, even if you could easily continue to work from home. Generally, go places and do things where you will be in closer proximity to more people, but if you catch coronavirus it's your own fault for getting too close to too many people.
The government messaging is not designed to reinforce a public safety message, it's designed to give the government plausible deniability in the event of a second wave.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 12:49:26 GMT
They’ve fixated on thIs idea that ‘people don’t like being told what do’. It’s a pandemic, one of the reasons that government is there for is to mandate measures for the good of all. I stopped taking them as any sort of guide a while ago, better to listen to nations who have done a good job (and I include Scotland in that) and people who were right in the first place. Those fateful weeks in March, where they planned to let the virus rip through us, will go down in history as a turning point, I hope. I really don't think people are as confused as many here are claiming. There's no question that the government screwed up catastrophically in March. One of the points I've tried to reinforce is that if one country has a lockdown when they have 100 cases and another has a lockdown when they have 1000 it doesn't mean the second country has 900 more cases but 10 times more, along with 10 times more need for medical equipment, 10 times more deaths, 10 times more everything. Prompt action is paramount, but we had a week of faffing about while the situation grew an order of magnitude worse and we've been paying the price for that delay ever since. But despite that I think people do understand what they need to do to protect themselves. On this forum there's a strong attitude of " I'm smart enough to know what to do but everyone else is an idiot" and I don't think that's justifiable. Where I am it's clear that people are still actively protecting themselves. I had to go to the shops this morning and everyone is carefully skirting round everyone else or standing in queues two metres apart. There are signs on bus stops telling people how to travel safely. Shops have screens up and warning signs, and people are following them. Pubs have one-way systems and people are following those too. There doesn't appear to be any confusion at all. There are a few idiots around who ignore all the rules but that has always been the case: it's because they don't care, not because they're confused. Are you ‘up north’? I am, and there is virtually zero mask wearing in my local area and, unsurprisingly, all around me are the areas now showing the greatest community transmission. The message that people here are taking note of is ‘back to normal’. Scotland, on the other hand, has much greater compliance but then they have a government that isn’t wetting themselves over telling people to do things for the greater good. |
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Post by olliebean on Jul 12, 2020 12:56:49 GMT
If the majority of people are still being sensible (and I think they probably are; it's just that the ones who aren't are far more visible), then I think it's rather a sad reflection of the tenor of government we have hampered ourselves with that they - or should I say we - are having to do so in spite of government guidance, rather than because of it.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 12, 2020 13:22:09 GMT
It isn't so much that people are confused. It's that there is such a sharp divide between us and the Government, with trust completely destroyed, so thus whenever the Government tries to do anything now people don't trust them enough to comply, I certainly don't trust them one inch.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 14:04:43 GMT
But despite that I think people do understand what they need to do to protect themselves. On this forum there's a strong attitude of " I'm smart enough to know what to do but everyone else is an idiot" and I don't think that's justifiable. Where I am it's clear that people are still actively protecting themselves. I had to go to the shops this morning and everyone is carefully skirting round everyone else or standing in queues two metres apart. There are signs on bus stops telling people how to travel safely. Shops have screens up and warning signs, and people are following them. Pubs have one-way systems and people are following those too. There doesn't appear to be any confusion at all. There are a few idiots around who ignore all the rules but that has always been the case: it's because they don't care, not because they're confused. Are you ‘up north’? I am, and there is virtually zero mask wearing in my local area and, unsurprisingly, all around me are the areas now showing the greatest community transmission. The message that people here are taking note of is ‘back to normal’. Scotland, on the other hand, has much greater compliance but then they have a government that isn’t wetting themselves over telling people to do things for the greater good. I'm in the vague area of the south midlands that's not quite midlands, not quite east, not quite south and not quite west. Looking at the maps of infection rates it's clear that some areas are doing worse than others. If it really was the case that the government's message was confusing and people didn't know what to do then you'd expect to see frequent resurgences across the whole country and that's not happening. In my area there aren't many people wearing masks (though I don't know about public transport because I don't use it at the moment) but because everyone is still observing distancing principles it doesn't make much difference. There's absolutely not a feeling of "back to normal". The local authorities around me are generally seeing 3 to 5 new cases a day, the only exception being Northamptonshire with 99 new cases in the first week of July. Oxfordshire had 25 new cases in the same week, Buckinghamshire had 35, Warwickshire had 28, Central Bedfordshire had 18 and Milton Keynes had 5. That doesn't suggest to me that the country is on the path to disaster because nobody knows how to keep themselves safe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 14:52:59 GMT
Mixed messaging here in the States as well. I think at this point many (most?) people are determining the margin of safety they require in order to (re)engage with various activities. That obviously differs based on individual circumstances and risk tolerance.
I've surprised myself by going back to my gym because:
1. All the equipment is now 6 feet apart.
2. Capacity remains limited to no more than 25%
3. I can go at off hours that are even more sparsely populated.
4. Masks are mandatory.
5. Temperature checks at the entrance.
6. We are given a personal bottle of disinfectant spray and a rag to use instead of the shared communal ones of the past.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 22:26:40 GMT
I'm glad the Health Secretary has his priorities in order, featuring in an idea I can only assume was pitched by Alan Partridge: Does he bear a likeness to Lt Gruber in Allo Allo? I wonder if Matt has a little tank? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 22:32:52 GMT
I still feel we were too late into Lockdown and I'm a Conservative voter of many years. How late I don't know? Three days certainly possibly a week as all entertainment had shut up by 16th March.
There needs to be inquiries but with this pandemic still going on. Can it really start. The other home nations all went into lockdown in unison. I don't know what the mechanism for them going sooner would have been. I'd figure the furlough scheme is centrally run so the First Minister's wouldn't have financial independence to do that.
I think we still need to be careful to try and drive this down. The other home nations outside of England are getting days with no or very few cases so they can hopefully manage any cases very swiftly. I just pray we will start to hear that decent areas of England are Covid free too soon.
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Post by sf on Jul 12, 2020 22:53:27 GMT
I just pray we will start to hear that decent areas of England are Covid free too soon. Excuse me - " decent areas of England"? I come from one of the towns on the list of places at risk of a local lockdown, although I no longer live there. Are you suggesting that the more-than-200,000 people there, including members of my family and most of my oldest friends, are somehow worthy of your scorn simply based on their postcode? That's a thoroughly offensive turn of phrase. Shame on you. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 13, 2020 7:10:27 GMT
I still feel we were too late into Lockdown and I'm a Conservative voter of many years. How late I don't know? Three days certainly possibly a week as all entertainment had shut up by 16th March. There needs to be inquiries but with this pandemic still going on. Can it really start. The other home nations all went into lockdown in unison. I don't know what the mechanism for them going sooner would have been. I'd figure the furlough scheme is centrally run so the First Minister's wouldn't have financial independence to do that. I think we still need to be careful to try and drive this down. The other home nations outside of England are getting days with no or very few cases so they can hopefully manage any cases very swiftly. I just pray we will start to hear that decent areas of England are Covid free too soon. A week is generous, we were two weeks behind most of Europe. That time lost was vital. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 13, 2020 7:28:11 GMT
I spent my weekend with mates who are Dr's and nurses... Apparently the NHS is now much better prepared for a second wave as now staff are now experienced and familiar in ICU work. The death count won't be as high (one friend ran out of body bags at one point) as a lot of the health vulnerable are unfortunately dead and so the virus in its current form can't be as deadly although no space for complancey and all the current measures should carry on and be stricter.
Prepare for a massive public health campaign around flu jabs and the Dr's receptionist will be administrating it... And we also discussed the price of fish.
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Post by greeny11 on Jul 13, 2020 7:38:22 GMT
I just pray we will start to hear that decent areas of England are Covid free too soon. Excuse me - " decent areas of England"? I come from one of the towns on the list of places at risk of a local lockdown, although I no longer live there. Are you suggesting that the more-than-200,000 people there, including members of my family and most of my oldest friends, are somehow worthy of your scorn simply based on their postcode? That's a thoroughly offensive turn of phrase. Shame on you. I interpreted that comment as being decent-sized areas - as in large areas of England. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 7:57:13 GMT
Excuse me - " decent areas of England"? I come from one of the towns on the list of places at risk of a local lockdown, although I no longer live there. Are you suggesting that the more-than-200,000 people there, including members of my family and most of my oldest friends, are somehow worthy of your scorn simply based on their postcode? That's a thoroughly offensive turn of phrase. Shame on you. I interpreted that comment as being decent-sized areas - as in large areas of England. Yes, that was my reading of it too... no need to take any offence. |
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Post by vickyg on Jul 13, 2020 9:00:12 GMT
I spent my weekend with mates who are Dr's and nurses... Apparently the NHS is now much better prepared for a second wave as now staff are now experienced and familiar in ICU work. The death count won't be as high (one friend ran out of body bags at one point) as a lot of the health vulnerable are unfortunately dead and so the virus in its current form can't be as deadly although no space for complancey and all the current measures should carry on and be stricter. Prepare for a massive public health campaign around flu jabs and the Dr's receptionist will be administrating it... And we also discussed the price of fish. This is very interesting to read as I also work in a hospital and we are extremely concerned about a potential second wave coinciding with winter pressures and feel it could be much more challenging given that ICU and ventilator capacity is usually extremely limited in winter in any normal year. Imo the only reason we could hope it wouldn't be as bad is because there is vastly increased testing, some sort of track and trace and the ability to lockdown smaller areas of the country before things get out of hand. But the data will have to be available much more quickly. Agree about the flu jab campaign. It will be extremely important for people to be vaccinated where possible as the potential for getting flu and COVID together would be extremely serious. Also with a number of similar symptoms it would be helpful for testing purposes if normal flu symptoms were reduced as much as possible. At work they are discussing staff having to have this at their local pharmacy where we usually have a huge in hospital campaign as there will not be capacity to carry that out this year with the additional pressures. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 13, 2020 9:25:54 GMT
I spent my weekend with mates who are Dr's and nurses... Apparently the NHS is now much better prepared for a second wave as now staff are now experienced and familiar in ICU work. The death count won't be as high (one friend ran out of body bags at one point) as a lot of the health vulnerable are unfortunately dead and so the virus in its current form can't be as deadly although no space for complancey and all the current measures should carry on and be stricter. Prepare for a massive public health campaign around flu jabs and the Dr's receptionist will be administrating it... And we also discussed the price of fish. This is very interesting to read as I also work in a hospital and we are extremely concerned about a potential second wave coinciding with winter pressures and feel it could be much more challenging given that ICU and ventilator capacity is usually extremely limited in winter in any normal year. Imo the only reason we could hope it wouldn't be as bad is because there is vastly increased testing, some sort of track and trace and the ability to lockdown smaller areas of the country before things get out of hand. But the data will have to be available much more quickly. Agree about the flu jab campaign. It will be extremely important for people to be vaccinated where possible as the potential for getting flu and COVID together would be extremely serious. Also with a number of similar symptoms it would be helpful for testing purposes if normal flu symptoms were reduced as much as possible. At work they are discussing staff having to have this at their local pharmacy where we usually have a huge in hospital campaign as there will not be capacity to carry that out this year with the additional pressures. You're absolutely right on the track and trace. It would be a massive help. I'm not sure what I can do about that though. But what I can do is have the flu jab, encourage others to do so and carry on wearing my facemask |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 13, 2020 9:59:23 GMT
Do you know if ventilators are on order to cope? We didn't discuss it. But friends did say PPE was getting stockpiled despite what the Gaurdian is saying. This is very interesting to read as I also work in a hospital and we are extremely concerned about a potential second wave coinciding with winter pressures and feel it could be much more challenging given that ICU and ventilator capacity is usually extremely limited in winter in any normal year. Imo the only reason we could hope it wouldn't be as bad is because there is vastly increased testing, some sort of track and trace and the ability to lockdown smaller areas of the country before things get out of hand. But the data will have to be available much more quickly. Agree about the flu jab campaign. It will be extremely important for people to be vaccinated where possible as the potential for getting flu and COVID together would be extremely serious. Also with a number of similar symptoms it would be helpful for testing purposes if normal flu symptoms were reduced as much as possible. At work they are discussing staff having to have this at their local pharmacy where we usually have a huge in hospital campaign as there will not be capacity to carry that out this year with the additional pressures. You're absolutely right on the track and trace. It would be a massive help. I'm not sure what I can do about that though. But what I can do is have the flu jab, encourage others to do so and carry on wearing my facemask |
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Post by sf on Jul 13, 2020 11:34:57 GMT
I interpreted that comment as being decent-sized areas - as in large areas of England. Yes, that was my reading of it too... no need to take any offence. Specific words carry specific meanings. If the original poster had meant what you suggest, he/she/it should have chosen words more carefully. |
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Post by Mark on Jul 13, 2020 12:31:36 GMT
Yes, that was my reading of it too... no need to take any offence. Specific words carry specific meanings. If the original poster had meant what you suggest, he/she/it should have chosen words more carefully. Or maybe... just maybe... they made a typo. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 12:35:54 GMT
Yes, that was my reading of it too... no need to take any offence. Specific words carry specific meanings. If the original poster had meant what you suggest, he/she/it should have chosen words more carefully. Specific words actually carry multiple meanings, as the responses in this thread make clear. |
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Post by sf on Jul 13, 2020 12:50:20 GMT
Specific words carry specific meanings. If the original poster had meant what you suggest, he/she/it should have chosen words more carefully. Specific words actually carry multiple meanings, as the responses in this thread make clear. Not in this case. The suggested excuse is that another word was left out. The meaning of what was actually written is unambiguous, and appalling. |
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Post by dontdreamit on Jul 13, 2020 13:49:50 GMT
I normally turn down the flu jab every year, but I’ll be having mine for the first time ever this year.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 18:05:46 GMT
Specific words actually carry multiple meanings, as the responses in this thread make clear. Not in this case. The suggested excuse is that another word was left out. The meaning of what was actually written is unambiguous, and appalling. It isnt though, you are the only person who posted afterwards in this thread to give it that meaning. "Decent" is a word I use all the time to describe size, so if you knew me in real life you'd probably be offended every day. Or, you could give someone the benefit of the doubt and ask politely for clarification rather than jumping down their throat for something no-one else thought they said. The written word can easily be misunderstood or poorly phrased, as we are all guilty of on occasion. |
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