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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 21:25:33 GMT
The UK got it wrong. It’s as simple as that. The world was shutting down and we were announcing plans for herd immunity. Boris has played the game of politics over the last few months but his original game plan - to let us catch Covid-19 - is still very much in play.
Lockdown was always about the NHS and ensuring anyone who needed medical assistance would be able to get it. If the NHS had been unable to truly support anyone who needed help... I dread to think what kind of mess we’d be in as a country now if the NHS had to admit it couldn’t offer aid to everyone.
So sadly I don’t think lockdown was ever primarily about saving lives - it was a political act to ensure this wasn’t the government that finally broke the NHS. It’s very easy to forget the government changed its mind about herd immunity in a matter of days after public scrutiny and the world basically saying ‘WTF?’.
I’m not saying Lockdown was the wrong thing to do - far from it - but everything the government did feels like PR. Look at the Nightingale hospitals that were barely used (thankfully) - were we lucky or were they just part of the political PR machine? (as other countries were doing something similar).
Then of course there’s the fact that a lot of people feel we have come out of lockdown too early (or at least that’s the impression I get anyway). I get that the government can’t support everyone financially until there’s a cure, so I understand that people have to get back out there and return to work. But has the government managed it right?
Sadly I accept the economy cannot stop and I fear the latest news from EasyJet is the start of a bad things to come. But note the subtle message of ‘we are where we are’ starting to come out now - and trust me, they won’t be so quiet when it comes to the theatre industry when it’s still not back up and running in 6 months. The arts is always the biggest casualty in times of trouble.
Boris, the Government and those scientists will have a lot of face up to once this is over. No doubt the government will put a positive spin on it all but there’s already loud whispers that we started lockdown too late and we could have prevented a lot of deaths.
The inevitable inquiry once this is all over will be interesting, to say the least.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 21:53:05 GMT
Vigilance is dissipating quickly in many part of the US. Almost daily I see people who wear masks, but touch all parts of it with their hand and then in turn, touch parts of their face. Months ago "don't touch your face" was a mainstay message. Now it is no longer proffered and people can't be bothered apparently.
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Post by sf on Jul 1, 2020 14:42:53 GMT
This amuses me. It's apparently a bagel shop somewhere on the north side of Chicago:
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 1, 2020 16:35:18 GMT
How about people with various health conditions who can't wear a mask?
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Post by sf on Jul 1, 2020 16:47:40 GMT
How about people with various health conditions who can't wear a mask? What about them?
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Post by alece10 on Jul 1, 2020 17:03:39 GMT
After travelling on public transport every day since face masks became mandatory I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of people not wearing them (for which every day there are more and more) are young people under 30.
I presume they think they are immune due to their age. They don't seem to realise that the mask is to protect others and not themselves. Pure selfishness.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 1, 2020 17:32:48 GMT
How about people with various health conditions who can't wear a mask? What about them?
Apparently various forms of asthma. This is one diagnosis I noticed on a list sent round by the health Trust I work with. I support multiple people who are diagnosed with autism and learning disabilities and for some a mask would be too traumatic to wear - for those I have ensured they have an exemption certificate. |
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Post by sf on Jul 1, 2020 17:44:10 GMT
Apparently various forms of asthma. I support multiple people who are diagnosed with autism and learning disabilities and for some of them a mask would be too traumatic to wear - for those I have ensured they have an exemption certificate. And that's fair enough. I would bet actual money, though, that the VAST majority of people who don't bother to wear a mask have no medical impediment preventing them from doing so, even if they claim they do. Even respiratory illnesses. I was my mother's primary caregiver through her recovery from the worst imaginable case of pneumonia - as in six weeks in hospital during which she almost died, including a few days on a ventilator, then four weeks in a care facility, eight months after that to regain some semblance of independence, a year until she was 'better', and significantly diminished health, including lung capacity, as a result, which is one of the reasons the cancer she was diagnosed with last year turned out not to be treatable - and even with the problems she faced, which were significant and life-changing, a washable cloth/disposable paper mask would not have posed a problem for her. The kind of mask with an inbuilt filter, maybe, but those aren't the only option, and they aren't what doctors are recommending the public wear to protect themselves and each other in public. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 17:59:11 GMT
There are a small number of people who would find difficulty wearing a mask, the vast majority of whom will be known to their GP/carer/therapist etc. A simple exemption photocard would be all that is needed to sort them out from the selfish chancers who are going around spewing all sorts of disinfomation.
Apparently they believe they cause hypertension, hypercarbia, hypoxemia, pleurisy and any other medical term they don’t understand but seems to fit their prejudice, The anti masker and anti vaxxer Venn diagram appears to overlap greatly, unsurprisingky. A lot of the dangerously gullible conspiracy theory crowd in the main added to by the crazed libertarians (Alex Jones et al) who believe it infringes their freedom to kill other people or something.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 1, 2020 18:26:15 GMT
There are a small number of people who would find difficulty wearing a mask, the vast majority of whom will be known to their GP/carer/therapist etc. A simple exemption photocard would be all that is needed to sort them out from the selfish chancers who are going around spewing all sorts of disinfomation. Apparently they believe they cause hypertension, hypercarbia, hypoxemia, pleurisy and any other medical term they don’t understand but seems to fit their prejudice, The anti masker and anti vaxxer Venn diagram appears to overlap greatly, unsurprisingky. A lot of the dangerously gullible conspiracy theory crowd in the main added to by the crazed libertarians (Alex Jones et al) who believe it infringes their freedom to kill other people or something. Absolutely. On my train it appears to be under 25's and builders who aren't wearing them. I hate wearing them but I do. I'm not very good with jewelery, accessories and last year I had lazor eye surgery to stop pesky spectacle wearing... But I wear a mask. I am now on my third design, it's from a colleague in the police and its almost comfy! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 18:30:18 GMT
A useful set of graphs showing the above.
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jul 2, 2020 6:08:25 GMT
How about people with various health conditions who can't wear a mask? And even here in Germany, where masks are mandatory and basically everyone wears them - for everyone with real health problems, who can't wear one, you have one, who thinks they are better than everyone else and invincible and bugger their GP, until they get a certificate. People are selfish. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 6:34:32 GMT
One silver lining from wearing masks so much is that it has reoriented my breathing to be more intentional, particularly exhaling. A slower exhale keep from steaming up the mask (or my glasses if I'm wearing them instead of contacts) and almost feels a bit contemplative by design.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 9:00:55 GMT
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 2, 2020 9:50:49 GMT
Well that is absolute hogwash. The public are led by the Government. The same Government who yesterday sent out a tweet saying 'Pubs are open. Raise a glass'. |
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Post by sf on Jul 2, 2020 10:27:39 GMT
The government's very, very cynical messaging is working, then. If only they'd put as much effort and thought into keeping people safe and protecting vulnerable sectors of the economy as they have into making sure THEY don't get the blame.
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 11:02:10 GMT
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Post by lynette on Jul 2, 2020 11:34:03 GMT
The government's very, very cynical messaging is working, then. If only they'd put as much effort and thought into keeping people safe and protecting vulnerable sectors of the economy as they have into making sure THEY don't get the blame.
I can see your point re care homes and provision of testing and equipment in the early stages but i can’t say that I am surprised if people think it is the public’s fault if cases do not fall. ‘Other ‘ people of course. Not me, not you! That is the problem. Social distancing is non existent in some places, mainly street corners. Even among the highly educated whom I sometimes find myself associating with, there is a combination of myth and ‘I’m doing the right thing for me’ ness. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 12:03:25 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads and teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. |
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 12:15:21 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. Through now teaching unions are still much more skeptical than Labour. |
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Post by basdfg on Jul 2, 2020 12:32:45 GMT
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 12:42:18 GMT
Hopefully the Government will publish the risk assessments outlining the perceived risks and how the mitigations being introduced have removed or at least minimised the risks identified so that the teaching staff and parents truly understand the risks and the measures implemented to give them the confidence to go back in September.
This was the biggest issue with the 1st Jun proposals, they were being imposed with little or no consultation and the buy in of the impacted teaching staff and parents.
By definition Unions will protect the safety of their members and as the Education Minister himself dropped the plan to get all Primary Schools back before the end of term safely the staff and parents were right to be sceptical of the original plans.
One thing this Government is especially good at is deflecting their poor decisions and poorly planned measures and soon we will be praising them for only 65,000 deaths and that they limited job losses to only millions.
A Government is there to Govern, by abdicating responsibility for their failed policies to the electorate they have failed in their only purpose which is their ability to GOVERN.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 2, 2020 13:15:33 GMT
Labour have always supported the opening of schools. The critical word is ‘safe’ and nothing has changed, primarily it was the heads teaching staff who were uncomfortable with the initial plans for the 1st Jun and most teachers are union members it was easier to malign the Unions. Now the Government have to prove the measures introduced have significantly reduced the risks as much as possible as zero risk is unattainable. Through now teaching unions are still much more skeptical than Labour. Surely that is.... Starmer has always supported the opening of schools. Now his shadow education secretary does also |
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Post by theatreian on Jul 2, 2020 13:28:29 GMT
As far as government and individual responsibility goes there has to be some of both. I was talking to someone today and they said they had been on a bus and a lot had got on not wearing face coverings. Someone complained to the bus driver who said I am here to drive the bus, not challenge people. Government can make rules but sometimes they are difficult to police. Unfortunately we live in a society where people will not challenge others for fear of reprisal. You only have to look at the news to see why. I certainly would not challenge anyone for not wearing a mask.
It is individuals who choose to ignore social distancing , not wear face coverings etc. I can understand these poll results to some extent as the government cannot police every individuals behaviour.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 2, 2020 14:10:48 GMT
The Government sets the expectations and their adherence to their own rules and the mixed messaging does not set a high bar for the rest of us.
Even the HMRC in a now deleted Tweet did not engender a careful and cautious expectation when we visit the pub this weekend and the PM’s father breaking the wishes of the Greek Government foe essential visits only today is no better than our friend Cummings visit to Barnard Castle.
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