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Post by Mark on Aug 6, 2020 12:32:19 GMT
How many deaths are we OK with then? How many are acceptable so that we can go to the theatre? That seems to be the attitude. I miss theatre as much as anyone but this virus does not care that we're bored, or frustrated, or that the economy's tanking. You're right that we can't stay in lockdown forever, but the Government haven't done a lot so far that gives me any indication it might be safe to go back to normal. I'll respond to your question only by asking... How many years would it be acceptable to keep everything closed? 2? 5? 10? As mentioned in another post, thousands die each year of Flu. Flu spreads in the same way as Covid. We have to accept that some people will catch it and die, this is about making things as safe as possible to mitigate that.
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Post by sf on Aug 6, 2020 12:36:46 GMT
And who wants to be the first theatre to do away with social distancing and two weeks later be named as the source of a major outbreak? Form a line, please!
...which brings up a couple of other issues. Insurance is a huge obstacle: theatres routinely carry insurance to cover losses should they have to cancel a performance, but in the middle of a global pandemic such insurance is going to be either almost impossible to source, or prohibitively expensive, or both.
And if theatres do gear up to reopen, which would involve significant financial outlay, and then have to close again because of a rise in the infection rate, the consequences would be devastating - more devastating for them than the consequences of having to remain closed until it's deemed safe to reopen without social distancing measures.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 12:40:16 GMT
I think it's quite glib to say that audiences 'just have to accept it'. Feeling safe is the priority and audiences won't feel safe gathering for a long time yet.
Well, if they want theatre to survive on the offchance they may contract a flu like virus that we're just going to have to live with.
Make your choice. Some of us are happy to get on with it, and not live cowering in fear.
This is not flu-like. This is the major mistake made early on and some people are still dangerously fixated on that, including the UK government it seems. It starts out as respiratory but then rapidly turned into something much wider. Much damage is done to the cardiovascular system. If yours is already compromised then you can expect serious consequences, from further deterioration to death. If it isn’t then a serious response will cause CVD. Only now are those who have had limited symptoms finding this has affected them. There is also growing concern over long term neurological damage. This is not “flu-like”. Nowhere near.
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Post by talkingheads on Aug 6, 2020 12:59:32 GMT
How many deaths are we OK with then? How many are acceptable so that we can go to the theatre? That seems to be the attitude. I miss theatre as much as anyone but this virus does not care that we're bored, or frustrated, or that the economy's tanking. You're right that we can't stay in lockdown forever, but the Government haven't done a lot so far that gives me any indication it might be safe to go back to normal. I'll respond to your question only by asking... How many years would it be acceptable to keep everything closed? 2? 5? 10? As mentioned in another post, thousands die each year of Flu. Flu spreads in the same way as Covid. We have to accept that some people will catch it and die, this is about making things as safe as possible to mitigate that. I would counterpoint that with how much sense does it make to open if audiences are too scared or unwilling to gather? That would be more damaging, theatres investing all the money to open then not getting the audiences they need to stay afloat. I'm thrilled at the amount of outdoor gigs that are happening and I hope it can go some way to regaining a bit if normality, but a lot of them are in London, which requires a train or coach, which many are avoiding at the moment.
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Post by Mark on Aug 6, 2020 13:05:50 GMT
I'll respond to your question only by asking... How many years would it be acceptable to keep everything closed? 2? 5? 10? As mentioned in another post, thousands die each year of Flu. Flu spreads in the same way as Covid. We have to accept that some people will catch it and die, this is about making things as safe as possible to mitigate that. I would counterpoint that with how much sense does it make to open if audiences are too scared or unwilling to gather? That would be more damaging, theatres investing all the money to open then not getting the audiences they need to stay afloat. I'm thrilled at the amount of outdoor gigs that are happening and I hope it can go some way to regaining a bit if normality, but a lot of them are in London, which requires a train or coach, which many are avoiding at the moment. There are many though, that are not scared to gather, or to be in crowds. Download all the Merlin theme parks apps and check the queue times Look at the load factors on European flights. Look at the 100 or so people queued outside Wagamama on Tuesday night waiting for a table. A lot of people are very happy to go out and about, and if you're not one of them then that is your choice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:06:20 GMT
talkingheads What would it take to make you feel safe? Genuine question, not trying any kind of gotcha, am really interested as levels of fear and perception of risk seem so varied.
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Post by talkingheads on Aug 6, 2020 13:09:11 GMT
talkingheads What would it take to make you feel safe? Genuine question, not trying any kind of gotcha, am really interested as levels of fear and perception of risk seem so varied. For me it will be when cases are way down from where they are at the moment. New Zealand managed to get to 1 or thereabouts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:12:04 GMT
This looks interesting, I've experienced a number of audio/immersive/promenade style shows in the last couple of decades and they are often my most memorable experiences of the year. (in French) www.leparisien.fr/culture-loisirs/theatre-on-a-suivi-c-o-n-t-a-c-t-la-premiere-piece-distanciee-dans-les-rues-de-paris-13-06-2020-8334996.php"ABOUT C-O-N-T-A-C-T - CENTRAL Award-winning producer Katy Lipson & Aria Entertainment join forces with Mathilde Moulin & WEF Productions to present the UK Premiere of C-O-N-T-A-C-T, a thrilling, vital and inspired new theatrical experience for our socially-distanced times. A young woman sits alone on a park bench, lost in her own thoughts. What is she thinking? Dive into her mind in this unique sensory and immersive theatre experience. After taking the streets of Paris by storm, with sell-out performances, C-O-N-T-A-C-T now journeys to the streets and parks of London, offering its unique blend of immersive theatre and sensorial soundscapes to a whole new audience, eager to once again experience live theatre. Become totally immersed in the world of our characters for 50 remarkable minutes, as you plug into this joyous, poetic and liberating experience, literally. Delivered via an app created especially for this exciting new show, you will be swept-away by state-of- the-art 3D sound design as you use your smartphone and headphones to navigate the performance. Walk the path shoulder to shoulder with the performers and share their sensations and thoughts, as the action unfolds before your eyes. This unique, bold and life-affirming production pushes the boundaries of what live theatre can achieve, allowing us to redefine what ‘performance’ means to us, and ultimately encouraging us to fall in love with theatre all over again. Limited outdoor season in London from 31 August, 6 weeks only. Book now." There are three versions in different parts of London, apparently.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:24:48 GMT
How many deaths are we OK with then? How many are acceptable so that we can go to the theatre? That seems to be the attitude. I miss theatre as much as anyone but this virus does not care that we're bored, or frustrated, or that the economy's tanking. You're right that we can't stay in lockdown forever, but the Government haven't done a lot so far that gives me any indication it might be safe to go back to normal. The conversation has moved on since I tried to get my head down and do some work (for a change...!) - but I wanted to take issue with this. I've seen before this attitude that people who don't like lockdown are being selfish/superficial. For me, what I am missing most of all - and what at my worst has driven me to some very dark thoughts - is any sense that life is actually worth living. I have felt crushed by isolation and by the sense that there is nothing at all to look forward to or any light at the end of the tunnel, and by the fact that there is no end in sight to all this. Yes, theatre is part of that - as well as being simply a pleasure, theatre has always been a way that I've managed my mental health, because it helps me to have a broader perspective, to forget what I'm anxious about, and gives me a communal experience when I'm feeling lonely. At the moment, I'm in a really bleak place and the thing that would make me feel a lot less bleak isn't there. It's not simply a case of being bored and wanting to go and shout "it's behind you" because I'm after a laugh. Lockdown isn't free - there are massive mental and physical health costs. I'm not for a second saying we shouldn't have focused on covid; but we can't focus on it forever. If for no other reason, then because there's a limit on how long many of us can get up every morning to face another pointless, meaningless day before we decide it's just not worth it. For the apparently large section of the population that never wanted to do anything apart from sit in their pants and watch Netflix, I understand that this will be less of an issue.
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1,972 posts
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Post by sf on Aug 6, 2020 13:30:00 GMT
For the apparently large section of the population that never wanted to do anything apart from sit in their pants and watch Netflix, I understand that this will be less of an issue. How incredibly condescending of you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:37:43 GMT
Quite right.
We just need to get on with it!!!!!!!
I think it's quite glib to say that audiences 'just have to accept it'. Feeling safe is the priority and audiences won't feel safe gathering for a long time yet. They will given it is their choice to go or not. For every person who still doesn't feel safe there will be someone who feels that with masks and sanitiser it is about as safe as theatre can ever get without a vaccine, so why not give it a go.
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Post by talkingheads on Aug 6, 2020 13:38:09 GMT
How many deaths are we OK with then? How many are acceptable so that we can go to the theatre? That seems to be the attitude. I miss theatre as much as anyone but this virus does not care that we're bored, or frustrated, or that the economy's tanking. You're right that we can't stay in lockdown forever, but the Government haven't done a lot so far that gives me any indication it might be safe to go back to normal. The conversation has moved on since I tried to get my head down and do some work (for a change...!) - but I wanted to take issue with this. I've seen before this attitude that people who don't like lockdown are being selfish/superficial. For me, what I am missing most of all - and what at my worst has driven me to some very dark thoughts - is any sense that life is actually worth living. I have felt crushed by isolation and by the sense that there is nothing at all to look forward to or any light at the end of the tunnel, and by the fact that there is no end in sight to all this. Yes, theatre is part of that - as well as being simply a pleasure, theatre has always been a way that I've managed my mental health, because it helps me to have a broader perspective, to forget what I'm anxious about, and gives me a communal experience when I'm feeling lonely. At the moment, I'm in a really bleak place and the thing that would make me feel a lot less bleak isn't there. It's not simply a case of being bored and wanting to go and shout "it's behind you" because I'm after a laugh. Lockdown isn't free - there are massive mental and physical health costs. I'm not for a second saying we shouldn't have focused on covid; but we can't focus on it forever. If for no other reason, then because there's a limit on how long many of us can get up every morning to face another pointless, meaningless day before we decide it's just not worth it. For the apparently large section of the population that never wanted to do anything apart from sit in their pants and watch Netflix, I understand that this will be less of an issue. I feel all those things too and I completely sympathise. I want nothing more than to go to the theatre, hug my friends. But I also see that we are sadly going to have to sacrifice those things for a while. Not forever, but for a while. And as much as I enjoy sitting in my pants watching Netflix on occasion, I would say that's not a very fair summation of the nation as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:42:17 GMT
talkingheads What would it take to make you feel safe? Genuine question, not trying any kind of gotcha, am really interested as levels of fear and perception of risk seem so varied. For me it will be when cases are way down from where they are at the moment. New Zealand managed to get to 1 or thereabouts. I'm afraid you are in for a very long wait then. Given the government's actions at the start of the pandemic in failing to close the borders, we are nowhere near New Zealand in terms of ability to get the infection levels down that low. That is a pipe dream without a vaccine, and if everyone were to base their risk assessment for participating in society on that level of cases then whole swathes of the economy will collapse - they cannot sustain multi-year closures. Each to their own of course, but if people are happy to take the (relatively minimal compared to four months ago) risk with appropriate precautions, then those people need to be given the opportunity to help save all parts of the economy, including theatres etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 13:46:28 GMT
The point I take issue with is that people who find lockdown incredibly difficult to survive seem to think that because they can't bear it any more there must be some other approach that will allow them to get their lives back, but no such option exists. If it was possible to open more things up without a death toll that would rival smallpox don't you think governments would be doing it? There's only one western government that's putting keeping things open ahead of health and it's going terribly for them: we had a high number of cases, but the US has had more than half that many deaths.
We don't have a good option here. All we have is a least bad option that kills the fewest number of people while opening up enough that the economy doesn't tank.
If we can get the number of cases down again and get a better tracking system in place then I see no reason why we can't open more areas up. Lockdown is an emergency approach when things are out of control. If we can reduce the number of cases to one or two per local authority per week (and a few weeks ago we weren't far off that) and have a reliable system for quarantining individuals who have been exposed before they show symptoms (what the hell happened to the tracing apps we were promised?) then we'll basically have this thing bottled up until we get a vaccine and in that situation a whole load more things can get back to normal. But if we do things in the wrong order then we'll be back in April again.
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Post by n1david on Aug 6, 2020 13:53:40 GMT
For the apparently large section of the population that never wanted to do anything apart from sit in their pants and watch Netflix, I understand that this will be less of an issue. I have to agree with sf that this is a very low blow @abby - before the pandemic I was out 4-5 nights a week, but with both of us with underlying health conditions that are likely to make Covid infection a bit more serious than the flu, I have to be careful about how to reintegrate with society. I am absolutely supportive of those who want to restart now, going out and partying, watching theatre in a non-SD way, going back to work or whatever. You want to do it, you go for it, believe me I understand the mental health issues around lockdown and if someone can help jumpstart the economy then I'm all for that. But if I can be respectful and understanding of those who do want to take the risk, maybe I can ask for some consideration in return? The risks are different for everyone - whether they be health risks, financial risks, to those and others around you. Implying that we are lazy or irrationally scared is an equally abhorrent view to those that say we should stay in lockdown forever. The risks are out there, we see that in Leicester, in Aberdeen, in Manchester. I'm monitoring what's going on, I'm dipping my toe in the water of life again whilst keeping an eye on the national and international trends on infection. I'm not ready for non-SD theatre yet, maybe I will be next month, or in November, or maybe it will be next year. I'll see how this virus evolves and what reopening society does for infection rates, and if we can get our damn track and trace system functioning in a meaningful way. I really hope you get to see the theatre you want to see soon, But maybe don't portray those of us who aren't willing to get out there in such an enthusiastic way as any less passionate about theatre and the economy and any more lazy or disinterested in society than you are. Thank you
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Post by jess173 on Aug 6, 2020 14:04:43 GMT
I‘m with abby and Poster J on this. At the moment there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We cannot go on like this forever.
Over here in Germany death numbers are relatively low and I’m glad they are. But the economy has taken a bad blow and now a lot of companies are starting to lay off staff. Just today Lufthansa announced to reduce thousands of work places. And they got a huge government funding.
Where I live, schools are opening up next week. My parents are teachers. They have not heard a single thing about concepts or safety precautions yet. They simply don’t know how things are going to work next week. Someone from the ministry of education declared that they were expecting schools to close again in the near future. My sister has small children. She is devastated because she cannot longer manage working full time and caring for the children the whole day. She has been doing this since early April.
And don’t even get me started on the tracking apps. Apparently we have the greatest app in the world (haha... -.-) and after weeks they noticed that it wasn’t working. Now users are advised to open the app every day after exactly 24 hours and one minute to synchronise the data... They’ve got to be kidding...
Nobody seems to have a plan. Even if there will be a vaccine it will take month to produce and distribute evenly. I don’t see any hope that 2021 will be any better than 2020 and that is damn scary to be honest...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2020 14:22:27 GMT
How many deaths are we OK with then? How many are acceptable so that we can go to the theatre? That seems to be the attitude. I miss theatre as much as anyone but this virus does not care that we're bored, or frustrated, or that the economy's tanking. You're right that we can't stay in lockdown forever, but the Government haven't done a lot so far that gives me any indication it might be safe to go back to normal. The conversation has moved on since I tried to get my head down and do some work (for a change...!) - but I wanted to take issue with this. I've seen before this attitude that people who don't like lockdown are being selfish/superficial. For me, what I am missing most of all - and what at my worst has driven me to some very dark thoughts - is any sense that life is actually worth living. I have felt crushed by isolation and by the sense that there is nothing at all to look forward to or any light at the end of the tunnel, and by the fact that there is no end in sight to all this. Yes, theatre is part of that - as well as being simply a pleasure, theatre has always been a way that I've managed my mental health, because it helps me to have a broader perspective, to forget what I'm anxious about, and gives me a communal experience when I'm feeling lonely. At the moment, I'm in a really bleak place and the thing that would make me feel a lot less bleak isn't there. It's not simply a case of being bored and wanting to go and shout "it's behind you" because I'm after a laugh. Lockdown isn't free - there are massive mental and physical health costs. I'm not for a second saying we shouldn't have focused on covid; but we can't focus on it forever. If for no other reason, then because there's a limit on how long many of us can get up every morning to face another pointless, meaningless day before we decide it's just not worth it. For the apparently large section of the population that never wanted to do anything apart from sit in their pants and watch Netflix, I understand that this will be less of an issue. Great post Abby, I totally get all of this.
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Post by steve10086 on Aug 6, 2020 14:35:42 GMT
Would be intriguing to know how all those willing to take the COVID risk turn out in 6-12 months time, plus how their family have fared.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 6, 2020 14:40:24 GMT
Well, if they want theatre to survive on the offchance they may contract a flu like virus that we're just going to have to live with.
Make your choice. Some of us are happy to get on with it, and not live cowering in fear.
This is not flu-like. This is the major mistake made early on and some people are still dangerously fixated on that, including the UK government it seems. It starts out as respiratory but then rapidly turned into something much wider. Much damage is done to the cardiovascular system. If yours is already compromised then you can expect serious consequences, from further deterioration to death. If it isn’t then a serious response will cause CVD. Only now are those who have had limited symptoms finding this has affected them. There is also growing concern over long term neurological damage. This is not “flu-like”. Nowhere near. To vulnerable, old and people with risk factors, no. However the rest of us will get over it - the way we get over flu.
That's the reality, not the narrative being pushed to the point of brainwashing.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 6, 2020 14:41:59 GMT
talkingheads What would it take to make you feel safe? Genuine question, not trying any kind of gotcha, am really interested as levels of fear and perception of risk seem so varied. For me it will be when cases are way down from where they are at the moment. New Zealand managed to get to 1 or thereabouts. I'm sorry to say this, but that is utterly unrealistic. Unfortunately it seems many people are sharing your line of thinking, scared witless by the government.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 6, 2020 14:43:59 GMT
I think it's quite glib to say that audiences 'just have to accept it'. Feeling safe is the priority and audiences won't feel safe gathering for a long time yet. I work on planes surrounded by 200+ people who could have travelled from anywhere in the world. Why would I not feel safe going to a theatre wearing a face mask and other safety precautions put in place? Many of us just want to get on with our lives, and I'd say thats the opinion of many. It comes back to the fact that if it was your livlihood that depended on these industries reopening, you'd be thinking about how you're going to put food on the table and a roof over your head before the worry that you might contract a virus which, for the vast majority, is a bad cold. Summed up beautifully. There seems to be a lack of reality, or perhaps cognitive dissonance in the general public since lockdown.
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Post by steve10086 on Aug 6, 2020 14:44:09 GMT
This is not flu-like. This is the major mistake made early on and some people are still dangerously fixated on that, including the UK government it seems. It starts out as respiratory but then rapidly turned into something much wider. Much damage is done to the cardiovascular system. If yours is already compromised then you can expect serious consequences, from further deterioration to death. If it isn’t then a serious response will cause CVD. Only now are those who have had limited symptoms finding this has affected them. There is also growing concern over long term neurological damage. This is not “flu-like”. Nowhere near. To vulnerable, old and people with risk factors, no. However the rest of us will get over it - the way we get over flu.
That's the reality, not the narrative being pushed to the point of brainwashing.
Yeah, and all these longer term health conditions that are emerging as a result of having had COVID, they are all brainwashing.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 6, 2020 14:45:06 GMT
Would be intriguing to know how all those willing to take the COVID risk turn out in 6-12 months time, plus how their family have fared. You could say the same thing about getting behind the wheel of a car - the risk of dying in a car accident is higher.
We cannot live a risk free existence.
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Post by distantcousin on Aug 6, 2020 14:46:40 GMT
To vulnerable, old and people with risk factors, no. However the rest of us will get over it - the way we get over flu.
That's the reality, not the narrative being pushed to the point of brainwashing.
Yeah, and all these longer term health conditions that are emerging as a result of having had COVID, they are all brainwashing. "all"? out of how many? You never hear the statistics of people who have fully recovered - because that doesn't make news. Outlets like The BBC and Guardian in particular are fixated on doom mongering. This really is not helping the national psyche.
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Post by steve10086 on Aug 6, 2020 14:46:42 GMT
Would be intriguing to know how all those willing to take the COVID risk turn out in 6-12 months time, plus how their family have fared. You could say the same thing about getting behind the wheel of a car - the risk of dying in a car accident is higher.
We cannot live a risk free existence.
I just said it would be intriguing to know how it turns out. Nothing more, nothing less.
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