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Post by crowblack on Jul 1, 2020 8:59:31 GMT
Why aren't Norris and Doran working with him ? A few months ago, before all this, Norris did an interview about how theatre had to work with whatever was the democratically elected government of the day, and got a load of flak about it from theatre Twitter. I loathe the Tories but he was simply stating a fact - and they are likely to be in for a long time if Labour doesn't get its sh*t together.
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Post by princeton on Jul 1, 2020 9:02:18 GMT
Let's not pretend that the DCMS SoS has great power. For years there's been talk about closing the Department and amalgamating it with others - and the role itself is typically used as a trial run for a more senior position. It's telling that between 1997 and 2007 there were two 'Culture Secretaries' (Chris Smith and Tessa Jowell) since then there have been 12. These days much of the focus is on dismantling the BBC and putting in place a commercial digital infrastructure - there's no sense of understanding culture and creativity and the value of that. Make no mistake the power is with No 10 and No 11 - the SoS is merely the front man. Get rid of Dowden and there are dozens more faceless and spineless people waiting in line to be told what to do by their boss.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 1, 2020 9:09:57 GMT
I just don't see the Government's reasoning for not helping the arts. They bring in so much money it would help the economy more than football when it returns. If this government were prepared to place the good of the economy over ideology we wouldn’t be still set to end the Brexit transition period at the end of the year. In fact we wouldn’t be leaving the EU at all. They don’t care about what’s good for the economy. They only care about what’s good for them and their disaster-capitalist mates.
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Post by theatreian on Jul 1, 2020 9:41:55 GMT
In fact we wouldn’t be leaving the EU at all. Although I don't agree with it we are leaving the EU down to a public vote and the huge majority this government got , largely on the back of their position on Brexit. To say they don't care about what's good for the economy doesn't seem very credible when they have been spending huge amounts of our money to prop the economy up with the furlough and other loans and grants. Any government surely stands or falls on their success with the economy and employment etc. Anyway I don't want to start a row! Everyone is entitled to their view.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 1, 2020 10:11:15 GMT
If the govt are punishing the arts for not supporting Boris and Brexit, then screw them frankly.
I think its simply that Cummings doesn't care about the arts, and since hes in charge, thats why we are where we are
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 1, 2020 10:25:10 GMT
It may not always seem like it, but things are getting back to normal. Grand Central Trains is to resume services from Sunday 26 July. As an open access operator, it has to fully cover all its costs from passenger revenue, so must be confident it can do that...maybe not immediately, but within a short timeframe.
If you build it, he will come, and all that!
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 1, 2020 10:33:06 GMT
It may not always seem like it, but things are getting back to normal. Grand Central Trains is to resume services from Sunday 26 July. As an open access operator, it has to fully cover all its costs from passenger revenue, so must be confident it can do that...maybe not immediately, but within a short timeframe. If you build it, he will come, and all that! Though without any leisure activities to go to, presumably numbers will be down?
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Post by clair on Jul 1, 2020 10:47:35 GMT
There will be some leisure activities though with galleries and museums starting to open, plus many people consider going shopping a leisure activity (I personally call it hell on earth but others seem to enjoy it), some zoos are open again, cinemas starting to open up - people may well travel to meet friends once travel is a better, more viable option. Theatres being closed for a long time affects all of us on here badly and a huge industry of amazing people but they are not the only leisure activity out there, many people I know never go to a theatre but are missing other things. This thread is about getting recreation and leisure up and running not just theatres.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 1, 2020 10:56:15 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Jul 1, 2020 10:57:56 GMT
In fact we wouldn’t be leaving the EU at all. Although I don't agree with it we are leaving the EU down to a public vote and the huge majority this government got , largely on the back of their position on Brexit. . We have in Government the people who pushed for a no-deal Brexit - including by breaching electoral law, amongst other shenanigans - despite them knowing there would be damage to the economy. If they were not ideologically rather than economically driven they wouldn’t have been committed to Leave in the first place.
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Post by Mark on Jul 1, 2020 11:30:26 GMT
At least 3 questions on PMQs today about theatre and the arts - glad to see it's really being pushed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 11:37:35 GMT
Yes, lots of questions, which is good and I hope represents a long-term ongoing intention to lobby. Unfortunately Johnson is completely refusing to engage and brushing it all off - no tiny hint that something is in the pipeline, which is really depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 11:37:55 GMT
At least 3 questions on PMQs today about theatre and the arts - glad to see it's really being pushed. Also watching! Lots of questions indeed. Boris's answers all suitably vague. It is great that the topic is finally getting more coverage though - can this give us vague reasons to be optimistic? With shops, restaurants, pubs, cinemas, aviation and holidays all moving through their re-opening plans - perhaps theatre is finally next? I hope so!
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Post by Mark on Jul 1, 2020 11:45:54 GMT
At least 3 questions on PMQs today about theatre and the arts - glad to see it's really being pushed. Also watching! Lots of questions indeed. Boris's answers all suitably vague. It is great that the topic is finally getting more coverage though - can this give us vague reasons to be optimistic? With shops, restaurants, pubs, cinemas, aviation and holidays all moving through their re-opening plans - perhaps theatre is finally next? I hope so! I think optimism definitely needed. We are at a very different stage to the USA where Broadway has been cancelled until next year. I have faith in people like Lloyd Webber doing these trials at the Palladium. And you can bet any money that Sonia Friedman won't go down without a fight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 11:55:09 GMT
Thanks Mark - in general I agree and I also feel pretty positive about the way the recovery is going regardless of little localised spikes, but it's easy to get sucked into depression. Thank you for reminding me that there's every reason for hope! Hoping to hear more about the ENO plans for Sept opening that the Stage reported recently.
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Post by Jan on Jul 1, 2020 12:02:12 GMT
If this government were prepared to place the good of the economy over ideology we wouldn’t be still set to end the Brexit transition period at the end of the year. In fact we wouldn’t be leaving the EU at all. They don’t care about what’s good for the economy. They only care about what’s good for them and their disaster-capitalist mates. Theatre needs charity to survive. Tactically it might be better not to continue to hurl abuse at the only people who can supply that ? Other sectors have engaged with the government far more constructively.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 12:26:41 GMT
Arts, media, etc. are not there to be nice to governments, Their history, right from ancient Greece, is for them to challenge the powerful.
If they are so petty as to not want to help theatre because they are not nice to them, then we can see them for what they really are. Weak, cowardly, vindictive people.
No money if you attack us? It is astonishing, in this day and age, that anyone would even raise that as an issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 12:49:02 GMT
Arts, media, etc. are not there to be nice to governments, Their history, right from ancient Greece, is for them to challenge the powerful. If they are so petty as to not want to help theatre because they are not nice to them, then we can see them for what they really are. Weak, cowardly, vindictive people. No money if you attack us? It is astonishing, in this day and age, that anyone would even raise that as an issue. Agree but have you seen the govt we have? Previous govts of all stripes would probably say you were right (Thatcher govt maybe excepted); this is not a govt that recognises concepts of honour, duty, public good, etc. That's what makes me worried. I don't think the Cameron, Brown, Blair or Major govts would have let the creative sector collapse into dust. I fear this one might.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 1, 2020 13:01:43 GMT
If this government were prepared to place the good of the economy over ideology we wouldn’t be still set to end the Brexit transition period at the end of the year. In fact we wouldn’t be leaving the EU at all. They don’t care about what’s good for the economy. They only care about what’s good for them and their disaster-capitalist mates. Theatre needs charity to survive. Tactically it might be better not to continue to hurl abuse at the only people who can supply that ? Other sectors have engaged with the government far more constructively. Somehow I doubt there's any members of the government on here. And it really shouldn't be considered 'charity'. The proposal has been to make government an investment partner - they'd get a return on their investment, the same way other investors do.
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Post by Jon on Jul 1, 2020 13:14:39 GMT
If I was being cynical, I would say any announcement about a package will be on the day or week when Andrew Lloyd Webber does his tests at the London Palladium.
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Post by sf on Jul 1, 2020 16:51:15 GMT
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Post by stagemanager on Jul 1, 2020 17:37:33 GMT
If I was being cynical, I would say any announcement about a package will be on the day or week when Andrew Lloyd Webber does his tests at the London Palladium. I would suggest that the timing of any announcement about a support package will have very little to do with anything within the theatre industry. Government announcements are arranged and agreed according to all sorts of of internal government politics and most importantly news cycles. For example Monday’s news was about investment in schools, Tuesday’s news was about investment in infra structure projects and I am sure the Government were aware that the law in Hong Kong would be implemented today and consequently today’s news would be about Hong Kong. To those of us who work in the theatre industry it is not dissimilar to the SOLT diary, that makes sure two major shows don’t open on the same day and the critics have to choose what to write about. As I have suggested before, the Government can’t announce a support package for theatre until as much of the rest of the hospitality industry and other parts of the economy are open, to stop their being a clamour of requests for support from other areas of the economy. So this would say to me it is unlikely to happen until after this weekends re-openings. The Government has also said that “at the beginning of July” there will be meetings to discuss the future re-opening of the economy based on the scientific advice and what the reaction is to the rate of infection of opening other parts of the economy that have already happened. This would also suggest that after this meeting the Government should be able to give dates to the DCMS’s roadmap. Don’t forget Dowden has no input into the dates it will be decided by advise from SAGE. To be honest I am pretty sure that the release of the dateless roadmap was brought forward and it was published incomplete because Dowden was forced to by the Select Committee. They can make Dowden do something but that doesn’t mean he can force SAGE to make a decision to fit in with him being forced to publish. Any support package announced will need to take into account how long the industry might remain closed and so I can’t see any substantial announcement happening until after the July meeting that will agree potential dates. After that as I said at the top of this comment it will need to fit in with the news cycle. If it’s a major support package it will get its own day, if it’s a minor one I suspect it will be rolled into the Chancellor’s budget on 8th July. We should all hope for a separate announcement as it implies a bigger deal.
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Post by Jon on Jul 1, 2020 17:56:46 GMT
I would suggest that the timing of any announcement about a support package will have very little to do with anything within the theatre industry. Government announcements are arranged and agreed according to all sorts of of internal government politics and most importantly news cycles. For example Monday’s news was about investment in schools, Tuesday’s news was about investment in infra structure projects and I am sure the Government were aware that the law in Hong Kong would be implemented today and consequently today’s news would be about Hong Kong. To those of us who work in the theatre industry it is not dissimilar to the SOLT diary, that makes sure two major shows don’t open on the same day and the critics have to choose what to write about. The reason I think an announcement may happen in the way I suggested is because it's a good photo opportunity for Boris, Rishi Sunak or Oliver Dowden to be at the Palladium with ALW announcing the support package. Both Jacinda Ardern and Scott Morrison in New Zealand and Australia announced support packages for arts and creative sectors in similar surroundings.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 1, 2020 18:56:12 GMT
Even if they don't give a toss about the arts, surely the govt's property developer friends will be screaming about this? Who will want to buy flats in those skyscrapers that are shooting up everywhere in a city centre with no nightlife?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 19:10:08 GMT
If I was being cynical, I would say any announcement about a package will be on the day or week when Andrew Lloyd Webber does his tests at the London Palladium. Wouldn't the optics of that be a bit crap if the point of investment is that theatres are forced to be closed for longer than other sectors? Why support an industry that's sorting itself out? If they want a staged photo op for an announcement I'm pretty sure any theatre would let itself be used in exchange for some decent package for the sector!
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