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Post by djp on Jun 19, 2020 2:24:44 GMT
I don't think German theatres will open without social distancing, no one actually knows, what the situation will be like then. Local theatres plan on playing with a reduced capacity, as some of them are already, but they are subsidized and can afford it. No commercial theatre can. I guess social distancing will be with us for quite a while. It depends very much where in Germany as each state has their own rules. Here in NRW shows are on sale from late August onwards without any social distancing. The only requirement is that the producer/venue knows exactly who has sat where, so that people can be traced in case there's an outbreak. My opera in Belgium has also sold season tickets normally with all tickets available from September onwards. Now that 200-300 people are cramming into airplanes for 2-3 hours to get to the Mediterranean beaches again, there really is no excuse why this is allowed and theatres should have to observe ludicrous distancing that makes performances unviable. Depends if Boris holds his nerve against the airline bosses trying to force him to give up quarantine. Given the problem here developed from 4 waves of air travellers returning from China, Italy, Spain and France and decamping all over the country , and the virus is still running rampant in much of the world, shutting down air travel and encouraging people to holiday here is a much more sensible strategy.
Germany is having bad experiences of new hotspots in enclosed spaces - with the 400 infected workers in one meat plant showing how it can spread in such environments. I would imagine Merkel is going to be cautious. German states may want to move faster. But here the politics argues for caution and ignoring the iDS and Redwood faction and those business lobbies who don't care about anything but money. Boris so far has been wearing the twin armour- that he's done precisely what the experts have told him to , and carried Sturgeon, and the Welsh and N Ireland with him on all big changes - with some artificial time lags for them to show their independence. Sturgeon and the Welsh assembly are not willing to remove the distancing measures - and while they won't, Boris would be too exposed if he went ahead on his own. Bottom line - distancing is here to stay, as are the specific problems operating in enclosed spaces with poor airflow.
The good news is that the vaccines seem to be progressing . The fast track Oxford one hasn't produced side effects and appears to produce antibodies and is moving to production in case it passes the next stages of testing. The bad news is we now seem not to know if the people who just had a mild or asymptomatic attack of covid 19 will gain any immunity from having it.
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Post by viserys on Jun 19, 2020 7:21:00 GMT
Germany is having bad experiences of new hotspots in enclosed spaces - with the 400 infected workers in one meat plant showing how it can spread in such environments. Yes, it mostly shines a light on the appalling conditions in which the mostly Eastern European meatpackers have to work and live here, which has created a much bigger debate around meat- and sausage-obsessed Germany. But that's indeed the point - all the recent small spikes in Germany have been either where migrant workers or asylum seekers are crammed together in appalling housing (meatpacking, a large asparagus farm in Bavaria, etc.) or connected to religion - church services, an infected priest merrily spreading contagion while visiting various families at home, a large gathering for muslim Eid at the end of Ramadan and so on. So why should culture and the performing arts suffer to the point of destruction because of two areas that have nothing to do with them? Church services are still allowed to happen and even allowed to allow more people in again, airplanes, trains and coaches are allowed to operate fully loaded and so on. I think the performing arts (not not in Germany, also in the UK and elsewhere) are unduly punished if they'd be forced to adhere to strict social distancing measures that have gone out of the window elsewhere already. Give it a chance at least, see if there'll be ANY spikes from 500-1000 people congregating in a regularly sold theatre. We seem to automatically assume that theatres will be sold out to the last seat, but that's rarely the case anyway, so there'll be some natural social distancing and ushers could also ask people to spread a bit further if the first 10 rows are full and the 5 rows behind empty. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 7:36:01 GMT
Depends if Boris holds his nerve against the airline bosses trying to force him to give up quarantine. Given the problem here developed from 4 waves of air travellers returning from China, Italy, Spain and France and decamping all over the country , and the virus is still running rampant in much of the world, shutting down air travel and encouraging people to holiday here is a much more sensible strategy. Causing the airline industry to collapse is not a much more sensible strategy. Thousands of jobs depend on it. And that's before you count the holiday reps, entertainers and everyone else who works abroad for the holiday season. People holidaying here isn't going to save those jobs. It isn't all about money, but it isn't all about the virus either, despite a seeming determination by some to keep this country under lock and key with a tanking economy until a vaccine or a cure. That will leave far more people much worse off than a slightly heightened number of virus cases, which is inevitable no matter how and when things are opened up. There is no rational reason for people not to travel abroad if we had sensible and enforceable quarantine rules on return, or a track and trace system that actually works. Although really all we need is constant testing in airports at both ends with a track and trace system as back up, and masks in the airport and on the plane. There really isn't any need to be more cautious than that, and if people don't feel comfortable travelling then they don't have to. It seems air bridges to about 30 countries are being finalised and may be in place by the end of June. |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jun 19, 2020 7:40:33 GMT
I don't think German theatres will open without social distancing, no one actually knows, what the situation will be like then. Local theatres plan on playing with a reduced capacity, as some of them are already, but they are subsidized and can afford it. No commercial theatre can. I guess social distancing will be with us for quite a while. It depends very much where in Germany as each state has their own rules. Here in NRW shows are on sale from late August onwards without any social distancing. The only requirement is that the producer/venue knows exactly who has sat where, so that people can be traced in case there's an outbreak. Not really the case. Theater Dortmund for example sells tickets for September /October and can house 242 people per show in the auditorium. Opera Bonn was around 300 if I remember correctly. Harry Potter and the Cursed Child in Hamburg is still doubtful about re-opening in October, if restrictions stay the same. Cabaret in Berlin has been cancelled, because under current conditions it is not feasible. (From newspaper articles from the last few days.) So there may be different rules in different states, but the picture is bleak and social distancing is still happening. |
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Post by viserys on Jun 19, 2020 8:01:32 GMT
Yea, the theatres that are propped up by fat subsidies can afford to plan like that, but it's not an option for anyone else and since I avoid the Stadttheater scene, I don't care either way.
All I'm seeing is that theatres here in Cologne sell tickets regularly for concerts and such at the Philharmonie and Musical Dome and my opera in Liege has been selling their new season with all tickets available, too. Hamburg is apparently being more careful with loosening restrictions, but Stage Entertainment is selling tickets for their Hamburg shows normally from 1 September onwards, too.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what will actually happen, but I'm hopeful that we'll be able to have a somewhat normal season after the summer. I rather be hopeful (and have booked a few performances and concerts for autumn) than share the bleak outlook.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Jun 19, 2020 8:05:28 GMT
Like it or not the airlines are essential travel and delivery infrastructure and so expensive a market to enter for new companies that if you allow all the existing operators to go bust it’ll cause severe disruption far beyond people not being able to fly for their summer holidays. It takes weeks to do the same journeys by boat/road/train.
The theatre industry going under would be utterly horrible, but it wouldn’t stop food or medicine arriving in the country.
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2,496 posts
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Post by zahidf on Jun 19, 2020 8:42:53 GMT
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2,411 posts
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Post by theatreian on Jun 19, 2020 8:52:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 9:14:42 GMT
The trouble with all this drive in stuff is that it doesn't help those of us without cars... From transport to entertainment, turns out those of us who have tried to take a more environmentally friendly path are now being shafted - not something I'm going to forget when this passes and people start banging on about climate change again. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 19, 2020 9:18:18 GMT
I wonder how that works regarding the toilet situ. |
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2,411 posts
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Post by theatreian on Jun 19, 2020 9:27:41 GMT
Yes I hadn't thought of that. It would put me off to be honest!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 9:38:04 GMT
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Post by duncan on Jun 19, 2020 9:42:32 GMT
I wonder how that works regarding the toilet situ. BYOB |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 9:55:48 GMT
Presumably this is why the ENO are stressing their show is 90 minutes although have to factor in travel time of course!
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4,179 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 19, 2020 9:56:59 GMT
ALW was on the Today Programme this morning. He's going to start the trial at the Palladium next month and hoping to demonstrate to the government that theatres can operate safely without social distancing. Mentions things like temperature testing, disinfection, special door handles ect.
He seems rather more proactive than CM who's simply decided to just close everything till next year and seemingly given up.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 19, 2020 10:44:57 GMT
AlW was on the Today Programme this morning. He's going to start the trial at the Palladium next month and hoping to demonstrate to the government that theatres can operate safely without social distancing. Mentions things like temperature testing, disinfection, special door handles ect. He seems rather more proactive than CM who's simply decided to just close everything till next year and seemingly given up. It's going to take some convincing to make audiences feel safe without social distancing inside. Literally one person coughs in the auditorium and everybody is on red alert. |
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Post by baguette on Jun 19, 2020 11:04:33 GMT
AlW was on the Today Programme this morning. He's going to start the trial at the Palladium next month and hoping to demonstrate to the government that theatres can operate safely without social distancing. Mentions things like temperature testing, disinfection, special door handles ect. He seems rather more proactive than CM who's simply decided to just close everything till next year and seemingly given up. Summary of his comments here: www.broadwayworld.com/article/Andrew-Lloyd-Webber-Plans-London-Palladium-Test-In-July-To-Prove-Theatres-Can-Reopen-20200619"The key thing is that they have is incredibly good hygiene in every single possible way, both backstage for the cast and crew and orchestra, but also for people in the front of the house. The whole point is to make people feel as safe and secure as they possibly can - for example, they have thermal imaging cameras at the stage door and as you come into the theatre that can identify if people have a temperature extremely quickly." Lloyd Webber explained that he's ordered similar equipment for his "little test" at the London Palladium, including hygienic silver ion door handles - "apparently these are completely effective against pathogens like coronavirus. Everybody going into the theatre is fobbed with the antiviral chemical, and the theatre itself is fobbed after every performance. There's no social distancing because it's impossible in the theatre." ALW talked about 'fogging' not 'fobbing' as the write-up says! He's talking about thermal imaging scans - I remember reading those are ruled out in France as it's a breach of privacy, and of course they are no help for asymptomatic audience members. ALW also mentions that there's a report on Theatre emerging on Monday from Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden. |
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Post by duncan on Jun 19, 2020 11:10:43 GMT
Surely the thermal imaging camera wont be able to spot the difference between someone who is ill and someone who is hot and sweaty from having spent 20 minutes on the tube or of its a warm day in mid August and the entire audience is sweating buckets?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 11:28:42 GMT
AlW was on the Today Programme this morning. He's going to start the trial at the Palladium next month and hoping to demonstrate to the government that theatres can operate safely without social distancing. Mentions things like temperature testing, disinfection, special door handles ect. He seems rather more proactive than CM who's simply decided to just close everything till next year and seemingly given up. It's going to take some convincing to make audiences feel safe without social distancing inside. Literally one person coughs in the auditorium and everybody is on red alert. Some but not all; no one was terribly worried about social distancing when I was in TK Maxx earlier this week... I wouldn't assume that everyone shares your level of concern or perception of risk - it varies a lot across the population. I personally wouldn't have a cow if I was in an auditorium and the person next to me had a little cough. There are all sorts of reasons why people have a tickle in their throat - unless it was ongoing, I wouldn't assume the worst, especially now when only approx 1 in 1,700 people and falling have got the virus. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 11:32:28 GMT
I wonder how that works regarding the toilet situ. Portaloos at a drive in concert I'm going to next month - cleaned after each use. |
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Post by kathryn on Jun 19, 2020 11:50:35 GMT
AlW was on the Today Programme this morning. He's going to start the trial at the Palladium next month and hoping to demonstrate to the government that theatres can operate safely without social distancing. Mentions things like temperature testing, disinfection, special door handles ect. He seems rather more proactive than CM who's simply decided to just close everything till next year and seemingly given up. I’d put money on this being a coordinated effort between the two of them. CM scares everyone with the consequences of the status quo, and then ALW comes along to offer a solution that avoids those consequences. Stick and carrot. Public transport is still going to be a major barrier though. Someone needs to come up with good evidence to show that it’s safe to travel. It’s the number one concern for getting people back into London. |
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Post by Jon on Jun 19, 2020 11:51:14 GMT
It’s good to see ALW and ENO trying out different things,
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Post by vickyg on Jun 19, 2020 11:59:46 GMT
Public transport is still going to be a major barrier though. Someone needs to come up with good evidence to show that it’s safe to travel. It’s the number one concern for getting people back into London. Not just that it's safe to travel but that we're allowed to make non-essential journeys by public transport. I suppose people must be doing it now that eg Oxford Street is back open, but I'm still under the impression that we should only be using the tube/busses to get to work if we have no other way of doing so, and not for any other reason. Article in WhatsOnStage about ALW doing something at the Palladium in July and whilst I would definitely want to go and can walk there from work, I wouldn't feel I had a way to get there at the weekend. |
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Post by n1david on Jun 19, 2020 12:16:06 GMT
Surely the thermal imaging camera wont be able to spot the difference between someone who is ill and someone who is hot and sweaty from having spent 20 minutes on the tube or of its a warm day in mid August and the entire audience is sweating buckets? A London pub which is taking temperatures has this solution: No good if you've been running late and you've had to rush to get there only 5 minutes before the show! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 12:22:00 GMT
Surely the thermal imaging camera wont be able to spot the difference between someone who is ill and someone who is hot and sweaty from having spent 20 minutes on the tube or of its a warm day in mid August and the entire audience is sweating buckets? A London pub which is taking temperatures has this solution: No good if you've been running late and you've had to rush to get there only 5 minutes before the show! Do they have any work-arounds for menopausal women...?! |
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