587 posts
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Post by Polly1 on Oct 31, 2022 13:27:17 GMT
Well, the Sunday papers seem to have confounded the right-wing/left-wing theory of reviewer responses: Quentin Letts gave it 4 stars in The Sunday Time and Susannah Clapp gave it 3 in The Observer. Clapp compared it unfavourable to Jerry Springer: The Opera. Not the only critic to do so. I am not sure why - given James Graham’s always humanising approach - but some people seem to have expected a biting satire. They must be very disappointed with the lukewarm reviews for this - no real raves to pin on the proposed transfer.
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Post by c4ndyc4ne on Oct 31, 2022 13:33:42 GMT
Well, the Sunday papers seem to have confounded the right-wing/left-wing theory of reviewer responses: Quentin Letts gave it 4 stars in The Sunday Time and Susannah Clapp gave it 3 in The Observer. Clapp compared it unfavourable to Jerry Springer: The Opera. Not the only critic to do so. I am not sure why - given James Graham’s always humanising approach - but some people seem to have expected a biting satire. They must be very disappointed with the lukewarm reviews for this - no real raves to pin on the proposed transfer. i think the reviews for this (4 stars from the vast majority of nationals) are better than patriots? and a glowing New York Times write-up. yes no out-and-out raves but more than enough to get it over the line.
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 31, 2022 13:36:32 GMT
Well, the Sunday papers seem to have confounded the right-wing/left-wing theory of reviewer responses: Quentin Letts gave it 4 stars in The Sunday Time and Susannah Clapp gave it 3 in The Observer. Clapp compared it unfavourable to Jerry Springer: The Opera. Not the only critic to do so. I am not sure why - given James Graham’s always humanising approach - but some people seem to have expected a biting satire. They must be very disappointed with the lukewarm reviews for this - no real raves to pin on the proposed transfer. I wouldn’t call the reviews “lukewarm”, and it would take universally damning reviews and probably poor ticket sales too for the company to cancel a transfer. Ticket sales and audience feedback / word of mouth are just as if not more important than reviews. Besides no one wants to cancel a transfer unless they have to because they’d have to find something to put in its place at relatively short notice.
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7,189 posts
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Post by Jon on Oct 31, 2022 13:58:16 GMT
Les Mis still transferred from the Barbican to the West End despite awful reviews so Tammy Faye will be fine even without raves.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Oct 31, 2022 17:21:26 GMT
I’m not so sure that ‘no raves’ is even true. I mean, this is a quote from a 4 star review
And this is a quote from a 3 star review:
So it reaches ‘delirious excellence’, has ‘charisma’, ‘great’ and ‘terrific’ songs that ‘whoop enjoyably’ and a ‘tremendous performance’.
It definitely sounds like a good time, doesn’t it? Maybe it’s not going to win the Pulitzer Prize - but how many musicals do?!
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Post by alece10 on Oct 31, 2022 17:52:44 GMT
I see we have our first 1 star vote. Shame whoever gave it that rating hasn't backed it up with a review. Seems to happen quite a bit with the 1 star votes that we never get a chance to find out why people think a show only deserves that rating. Call my an old cynic but.....
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Oct 31, 2022 18:05:35 GMT
It will be interesting to see how this goes down on Broadway. It almost feels like some of it was written with Broadway in mind. There are so many parallels between then and now, politics wise.The Jerry Falwell stuff about him helping to get Reagan into the whitehouse, was repeated when Jerry Falwell Jr. endorsed Trump and got the evengelicals behind him - despite him being everything they're against.
Though the Falwell's have recently had a Tammy Faye level downfall, and this airs in the US tomorrow. The hypocrisy is frightening:
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Post by inthenose on Oct 31, 2022 19:08:58 GMT
I appreciate this will be an outlier view, and I haven’t seen the show yet myself. But are some people taking these critics reviews a bit too personally?
It is the critic’s opinion; people are hinting at bias, well, how Cinderella got 5* stars I’ll never know but it did. 4’s and 5’s across the board. Maybe it’s their earnest opinion and they genuinely didn’t like it very much, or in that case they loved it, but audiences love what they love.
It happens all the time in the box office for theatre, music, film and all the arts. There really is little point in getting upset and trying to explain why the reviews are wrong.
As with Les Mis, if a show doesn’t land with critics it’s not the end of the world. It’s not some conspiracy to keep your favourite show down, it’s just how they felt and they are paid to be honest (hopefully) and credible (oftentimes not), but that’s what they do.
Honestly not being funny, but calm down. I’ve seen loads of shows the critics haven’t liked and loads they’ve raved about, and come away feeling the exact opposite.
But it’s no good hoping for amazing reviews to validate one’s opinion, then turning against critics if they don’t agree. It goes against the entire point of critical thought.
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4,214 posts
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Post by anthony40 on Oct 31, 2022 19:10:23 GMT
If this doesn't transfer, I'll be shocked!
Please give us a cast recording!!!!
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Oct 31, 2022 19:39:09 GMT
Reading reviews is an enjoyable part of my critical engagement with Art of all types.
Sometimes reading reviewers who disagree with you helps you work out what makes a work resonate with you or not. Certainly reviews are as revealing of the reviewer, and where they are coming from, as of the work itself. Everyone comes to art with a set of assumptions about what it should be. Relatively few people get to see something before critics have set the tone of the conversation about it based upon those assumptions.
Of course everyone has their own biases and preferences, and reviewers frequently work for outlets that reflect their own values and beliefs. There need not be any kind of conspiracy involved in critics from similar outlets responding in similar ways.
And of course reviews will impact on things like whether a show will have a further life (or will even make it through it’s original run).
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Oct 31, 2022 19:48:06 GMT
I think I’m going to have to return my ticket for Saturday 5th matinee - train strikes mean it’s very doubtful that I’d make the last train home.
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Post by inthenose on Oct 31, 2022 21:57:16 GMT
I’m just saying, if all the media reviews were perfect raves, fans would use that as validation their view of the show was right.
I’ll see this at some point when it transfers, with the best will to adore it as I always do. Right now I have others ahead in the queue!
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Oct 31, 2022 22:12:08 GMT
I’m just saying, if all the media reviews were perfect raves, fans would use that as validation their view of the show was right. I’ll see this at some point when it transfers, with the best will to adore it as I always do. Right now I have others ahead in the queue! And if they were all panning it, people who hated he show would be use that as validation their view of the show was right. That is what is known as a critical consensus. I am sure once you have seen the show you will also share your opinion of it, and whether or not you agree with the critical consensus. Once you get around to it. That being the purpose of this forum.
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Post by musiqualetheater on Nov 1, 2022 9:52:21 GMT
Really enjoyed the show. I didn’t know much beforehand and it seems her legacy has escaped the UK majority, which perhaps made people on tenterhooks for it to be more satirical than biographical. Unsure if it’s because my knowledge beforehand was limited or it was the material, but I struggled to connect with Tammy sometimes. For example when .. it was announced Jim was being imprisoned for fraud, it didn’t feel like Tammy wasn’t complicit. From the way it was presented in the show, it appeared as if she knew all along and there wasn’t a shock factor of dramatic irony.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Nov 1, 2022 13:16:28 GMT
I think I’m going to have to return my ticket for Saturday 5th matinee - train strikes mean it’s very doubtful that I’d make the last train home. So I’ve just got off the phone to the box office, anyone looking for a single front stalls ticket for Saturday’s matinee should keep an eye on the website as it’ll pop up at some point.
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Post by cezbear on Nov 1, 2022 13:49:37 GMT
Not to steal Kathryn's thunder, but if anyone's looking for tomorrow's matinee I've returned one for stalls F.
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8,160 posts
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Post by alece10 on Nov 1, 2022 14:46:47 GMT
2 new swings have been announced. Strange thing to do with 4 weeks left. Is this them getting 'west end ready"?
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Post by andypandy on Nov 1, 2022 15:03:15 GMT
2 new swings have been announced. Strange thing to do with 4 weeks left. Is this them getting 'west end ready"? I doubt a transfer will be soon. I’ve heard from being at the theatre the other day that someone in the leading cast is pregnant. Elton isn’t too happy but they are “willing to wait”. It gives the creative team time to look at the book and songs and make any cuts or additions following the reviews. Mickey Jo Theatre on You Tube makes some very good comments.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 1, 2022 15:03:52 GMT
2 new swings have been announced. Strange thing to do with 4 weeks left. Is this them getting 'west end ready"? It’s because of Covid cases in the cast.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Nov 1, 2022 18:02:57 GMT
Mickey Jo Theatre on You Tube makes some very good comments. Does he though? He said he was expecting to see a big dramatic reveal or sudden change when their downfall came about, he wanted to see something theatrical, but it didn't happen, so thats the writer or directors fault. Why are you placing blame because something didn't happening the way you wanted it to? And a big 'theatrical reveal' makes no sense because it wasn't a sudden thing and it didn't happen overnight, it was something that happened over time and we saw it happening with the IRS, bills etc piling up. It feels like he's reviewing the show he wanted, rather than the show he saw.
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Post by shownut on Nov 1, 2022 18:18:00 GMT
Mickey Jo Theatre on You Tube makes some very good comments. Does he though? He said he was expecting to see a big dramatic reveal or sudden change when their downfall came about, he wanted to see something theatrical, but it didn't happen, so thats the writer or directors fault. Why are you placing blame because something didn't happening the way you wanted it to? And a big 'theatrical reveal' makes no sense because it wasn't a sudden thing and it didn't happen overnight, it was something that happened over time and we saw it happening with the IRS, bills etc piling up. It feels like he's reviewing the show he wanted, rather than the show he saw. I totally agree. I normally enjoy his point of view but he did appear to judge this show based on what he expected it to be vs what it actually is.
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Post by hadeswasking on Nov 1, 2022 18:21:03 GMT
Does he though? He said he was expecting to see a big dramatic reveal or sudden change when their downfall came about, he wanted to see something theatrical, but it didn't happen, so thats the writer or directors fault. Why are you placing blame because something didn't happening the way you wanted it to? And a big 'theatrical reveal' makes no sense because it wasn't a sudden thing and it didn't happen overnight, it was something that happened over time and we saw it happening with the IRS, bills etc piling up. It feels like he's reviewing the show he wanted, rather than the show he saw. I totally agree. I normally enjoy his point of view but he did appear to judge this show based on what he expected it to be vs what it actually is. He did the same with Into The Woods. His judgement was completely blinded by what he liked from past productions and expectations instead of seeing it for what it was.
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Post by alece10 on Nov 1, 2022 18:29:21 GMT
I normally enjoy his reviews but I turned off after 10 minutes of this one as there was still another 20 minutes to go and he was just prattling on.
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Post by Rory on Nov 1, 2022 18:36:19 GMT
2 new swings have been announced. Strange thing to do with 4 weeks left. Is this them getting 'west end ready"? I doubt a transfer will be soon. I’ve heard from being at the theatre the other day that someone in the leading cast is pregnant. Elton isn’t too happy but they are “willing to wait”. It gives the creative team time to look at the book and songs and make any cuts or additions following the reviews. Mickey Jo Theatre on You Tube makes some very good comments. It will be disappointing if there is a big delay with the transfer. Hope they keep Andrew Rannells.
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Post by max on Nov 1, 2022 18:41:52 GMT
Kristin Chinoweth stated in interviews that she had a 'passion project' musical about Tammy Faye in the works. Wonder what happened to that. There have been (at least) a couple of other Tammy Faye musicals (not reaching Broadway) in the past, but presumably this will be 'the one'. May get a tough ride on Broadway, with three Brits on the creative team - if there's a sense that 'we should have done this'. Or are Americans over that now? Interview with Chinoweth:
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