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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 3, 2023 14:31:21 GMT
The royal family went whinging to the press about Meghan about 853,647 times since before she was even married. All they do is leak stories complaining. They were publicly airing dirty laundry (as well as leaking outright lies) about Harry and Meghan for years while H&M were entirely silent and never responded or defended themselves. For years. How long would you tolerate your own family constantly telling the press all manner of nasty things about you without being allowed to speak? Don't try and confuse people with facts, they have little interest in the truth ;-) |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 3, 2023 14:43:20 GMT
I don't find anything about Kanye West funny. Isn't that why it's funny? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 3, 2023 14:43:46 GMT
Facts?
None of this is based on facts. And that is the problem.
If Harry is serious about wanting to heal a family rift, he is going about it completely the wrong way.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 3, 2023 14:48:53 GMT
None of this is based on facts. And exactly how do you know this? Please tell us, we are all ears. |
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Post by londonpostie on Jan 3, 2023 15:12:13 GMT
They didn't do a single second of promotion for the Netflix series. Oh boy. The Netflix series IS a promo. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 3, 2023 15:47:03 GMT
None of this is based on facts. And exactly how do you know this? Please tell us, we are all ears. The whole thing is spin and presentation. On both sides to a greater or lesser extent. The lack of specific details to so many of the allegations makes that perfectly obvious. I have so over this whole drama. I don't give a damn about anything that Harry and Meghan have to say. They chose to step aside from a life of public service. Let them be private citizens. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 3, 2023 17:07:35 GMT
I don't find anything about Kanye West funny. Indeed, Kanye is clearly in the grip of a very serious mental illness that is destroying his life - has already destroyed his marriage and much of his career. Nothing funny about that. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 3, 2023 17:16:12 GMT
Facts? None of this is based on facts. And that is the problem. If Harry is serious about wanting to heal a family rift, he is going about it completely the wrong way. Yes, it is based on facts. What happened post-Netflix series with the exposure of the Palace lies about being contacted for comment and how they briefed those denials to the press via their pet journalists is a clear example of exactly what Harry is saying. It’s a fact that the Royal Press offices use friendly journalists to plant lies about Harry and Meghan in the press. Those journalists report those lies without even attempting to do any basic journalistic verification of them. They act as stenographer for the Palace press officers so that they don’t have to go on the record with their lies. As for Harry healing the family rift - that is very much up to the rest of the family. It’s pretty clear what Harry would need them to do. They could simply tell their press officers directly to stop lying via journalists now that has been exposed, and that would be a start. They could even defend Meghan against the utter vileness that the likes of Jeremy Clarkson come out with instead of attending lunches with him. But they are clearly not willing to do so. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 3, 2023 17:17:51 GMT
They didn't do a single second of promotion for the Netflix series. Oh boy. The Netflix series IS a promo. You are not that ignorant. You know full well that anyone with a Netflix production coming out would normally be talking it up in every media outlet to try and promote it. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 3, 2023 17:24:05 GMT
[. I have so over this whole drama. I don't give a damn about anything that Harry and Meghan have to say. They chose to step aside from a life of public service. Let them be private citizens. This is obviously not true: 1. You’re still posting in this thread. So you are clearly not over it and are still interested. 2. They did not ‘step aside from a life of public service’. They were explicit in saying that they would continue to be public figures and that ‘service is universal’ - that they intended to attempt to live a life of public service outside the Royal Family. And given that they have been involved in several high profile public roles - not just the continuing work with Invictus Games and SmartWorks, but also the Global Citizen work on COVID-19 vaccine equity - www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/topics/prince-harry-and-meghan - they have demonstrably done so. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 3, 2023 18:08:59 GMT
Some people choose to believe their spin. Others don't.
I have checked the claims of facts being trumpeted by some on here. And so much of it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
I shall leave it at that and not return to this thread
Indeed I wish it were possible to completely block a thread so it would never show again.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 3, 2023 18:29:14 GMT
Some people choose to believe their spin. Others don't. I have checked the claims of facts being trumpeted by some on here. And so much of it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. A guy who had a fight with his brother and Father said he'd like to reconcile? What exactly is he spinning? I don't get it? Apart from pointing out what the gutter press is like, I don't actually see what they have ever spun and surely you already knew that was true? Surely... |
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Post by Latecomer on Jan 3, 2023 19:26:11 GMT
The press (and government) would rather we talked about the Royal Family fallout than the real problems of this country. It’s not a co-incidence that when there is no good news there’s always a royal story to fill the void.
No bread? (or Heating/houses/decent wages/education/social care/dentists/nhs/roads that work/trains)
Let them fight about the Royals
It doesn’t matter folks. Don’t let them distract you!
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 3, 2023 19:29:53 GMT
Do people actually think the royal family launched a sabotage mission of Meghan by briefing journalists? Why. Because they hate her?
This is Diana territory. She was paranoid too. Thought they were all out to get her. Turns out not in any way, they were just getting on with life.
Meghan didn’t fit and didn’t deal with what is a horrendous media system. They do treat women horrendously. Perhaps are eye should be on the fact that we sustain the media.
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Post by kathryn on Jan 3, 2023 20:32:04 GMT
Do people actually think the royal family launched a sabotage mission of Meghan by briefing journalists? Why. Because they hate her? This is Diana territory. She was paranoid too. Thought they were all out to get her. Turns out not in any way, they were just getting on with life. Meghan didn’t fit and didn’t deal with what is a horrendous media system. They do treat women horrendously. Perhaps are eye should be on the fact that we sustain the media. There was a briefing spree against Diana - Charles, as heir, very much needed to get public opinion on his side. Many journalists from the time will confirm that there was briefing against her going on. Diana wasn’t ‘paranoid’ about everything; she was simply wrong about the mechanism by which *some* of those stories were obtained. It’s quite obvious now, Post-Leveson, that she was a victim of phone hacking. And it’s quite obvious now, Post-Bashir revelations, that she had concrete reasons to believe that she was being betrayed by the people who worked for her, because evidence had been manufactured. Obviously that will have a negative effect on someone’s mental state. Many phone hacking victims have said that their trust in their nearest and dearest was destroyed by it. And there was a briefing spree against Meghan, because William and Kate needed to get public opinion back on their side. The accusations of a lack of work ethic have never quite gone away (and when you look at how many fewer public engagements they do than other Royals, it never will do) and they were already suffering from a relative deficit of glamour and enthusiasm, even before the affair rumours started circulating. There have been multiple journalists saying *on the record* that they were briefed against Meghan by their ‘sources’ at Kensington Palace. In fact whenever the displays of press racism became too blatant and the criticism of press behaviour too pointed, you’d get journalists throwing up their hands and saying ‘but the stories came from Kensington Palace!’ Valentine Low even said that he’d been told about Meghan’s mental health struggles and her email to the HR department seeking help, but the lawyers vetoed the story because it would have been a blatantly illegal invasion of medical privacy. How the hell do you think *that* story got to him without an investigation of the HR personnel taking place - leaking confidential information like that would normally get an HR professional fired for gross misconduct! |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 3, 2023 20:33:31 GMT
Oh come on, they briefed against Diana too.
The golden rule of the monarchy is that everyone exists to prop up the monarch and the direct heirs. A huge part of that is the unspoken agreement with the press, which is becoming more visible by the day.
The royals make quid pro quo deals with the press, they give the press stories about lesser royals in exchange for the press killing stories about the direct heirs. Harry has always been a scapegoat for William - look at the Nazi uniform photos, those photos were leaked in order to keep William’s part out of the press. The rash of negative H&M stories being leaked were to bribe the press not to cover the Rose Hanbury thing.
For four generations, the heir has a press persona of being mature, sensible and regal, while the spare has a press persona of being a naughty wild child. It started with Elizabeth and Margaret and it’s already started happening with George and his siblings. It’s all completely fake and manipulated. It’s only a matter of time before we see “George worried about wild child Charlotte” headlines, and the press mysteriously manage to get their hands on photos of Charlotte drunk or whatever while George will continue to be painted as whiter than white. I’d put money on that happening by the time Charlotte is 18.
Plus no one is allowed to outshine the heirs. It’s pretty well documented that Charles was jealous when Diana started to become so insane popular, and the stories intended to put her in her place started after that. (Very similar to what happened after Harry and Meghan’s hugely successful foreign tour compared to Will and Kate’s disaster tours.) Then of course once Diana refused to be the quiet good girl and ignore his affair, the gloves came off and Charles/the RF did their outmost to use the press to make Diana out to be unstable and paranoid. Both Charles and Diana leaked stories, they both used and manipulated the press, and they both had their own pet journalists they’d leak to.
Anyway married-ins always get a rough ride at the start to test that they’re willing to sacrifice themselves for the Firm, and that they’ll tolerate bad press and tabloid lies without complaint. Kate passed the loyalty test so she’s protected now - the RF aggressively kill and deny bad stories about her, which they didn’t do when she first married William. Meghan obviously wasn’t willing to do the same. Plus it’s pretty clear they just didn’t like Meghan and didn’t see her as a suitable wife for Harry.
It’s fairly obvious some of the stories could only have come from royal sources. Both the court case and tweets from journalists confirmed Jason Knauf was leaking stories, yet Charles and Will hugely rewarded him. Either Knauf broke his NDA, betrayed the RF, and was plain incompetent at his job (in which case why did Charles and Will reward him so fulsomely?) or he was acting under orders. The journalist who broke the news that Kate and Meghan had a fight at the bridesmaids dress fitting is close friends with Carole Middleton and has a history of publishing pro-Middleton puff pieces. How many people were at the fitting or close enough to Kate to hear about a private fight? The only way that story could get in the press so fast is if someone present or someone close to Kate phoned up a journalist. So who’s this mystery person if not Carole?
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 3, 2023 20:59:02 GMT
Do people actually think the royal family launched a sabotage mission of Meghan by briefing journalists? Why. Because they hate her? This is Diana territory. She was paranoid too. Thought they were all out to get her. Turns out not in any way, they were just getting on with life. Meghan didn’t fit and didn’t deal with what is a horrendous media system. They do treat women horrendously. Perhaps are eye should be on the fact that we sustain the media. There was a briefing spree against Diana - Charles, as heir, very much needed to get public opinion on his side. Many journalists from the time will confirm that there was briefing against her going on. Diana wasn’t ‘paranoid’ about everything; she was simply wrong about the mechanism by which *some* of those stories were obtained. It’s quite obvious now, Post-Leveson, that she was a victim of phone hacking. And it’s quite obvious now, Post-Bashir revelations, that she had concrete reasons to believe that she was being betrayed by the people who worked for her, because evidence had been manufactured. Obviously that will have a negative effect on someone’s mental state. Many phone hacking victims have said that their trust in their nearest and dearest was destroyed by it. And there was a briefing spree against Meghan, because William and Kate needed to get public opinion back on their side. The accusations of a lack of work ethic have never quite gone away (and when you look at how many fewer public engagements they do than other Royals, it never will do) and they were already suffering from a relative deficit of glamour and enthusiasm, even before the affair rumours started circulating. There have been multiple journalists saying *on the record* that they were briefed against Meghan by their ‘sources’ at Kensington Palace. In fact whenever the displays of press racism became too blatant and the criticism of press behaviour too pointed, you’d get journalists throwing up their hands and saying ‘but the stories came from Kensington Palace!’ Valentine Low even said that he’d been told about Meghan’s mental health struggles and her email to the HR department seeking help, but the lawyers vetoed the story because it would have been a blatantly illegal invasion of medical privacy. How the hell do you think *that* story got to him without an investigation of the HR personnel taking place - leaking confidential information like that would normally get an HR professional fired for gross misconduct! Mmmm one journalist apart from Dan Wooten or Scobie because most say that isn’t how we get stories? Low got that story the employees who went to him. No doubt people talk with loose lips they always do but to claim it was systematic bullying…there is simply no evidence. |
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 3, 2023 21:06:39 GMT
It’s fairly obvious some of the stories could only have come from royal sources. Both the court case and tweets from journalists confirmed Jason Knauf was leaking stories, yet Charles and Will hugely rewarded him. Either Knauf broke his NDA, betrayed the RF, and was plain incompetent at his job (in which case why did Charles and Will reward him so fulsomely?) or he was acting under orders. The journalist who broke the news that Kate and Meghan had a fight at the bridesmaids dress fitting is close friends with Carole Middleton and has a history of publishing pro-Middleton puff pieces. How many people were at the fitting or close enough to Kate to hear about a private fight? The only way that story could get in the press so fast is if someone present or someone close to Kate phoned up a journalist. So who’s this mystery person if not Carole? There is no evidence Knauf did anything like this and when you hear journalists who know him talk about him they make it clear he went in fighting all the corners. Camilla Tominey? Seriously? She was on that BBC podcast talking about how she got that story. She took someone out for lunch they mentioned it but went all reticent. She kept digging. She broke the dating story too. Was that Carole too. Maybe as revenge for a finding Freedom slating Pippas wedding. I choose not to believe a lot of this stuff because we don’t know. There is no evidence and all we have is what H and M say. It’s a family row. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 4, 2023 10:46:17 GMT
Mmmm one journalist apart from Dan Wooten or Scobie because most say that isn’t how we get stories? Low got that story the employees who went to him. No doubt people talk with loose lips they always do but to claim it was systematic bullying…there is simply no evidence. Lots of journalists. Did you miss the whole thing with Jason Knauf and the Mail on Sunday?! It was in court documents that he was a source for the Mail! Or are you just ignoring it? And the BBC documentary The Princes and The Press, where several journalists talked about briefing on the record? Or this comment on the Jeremy Vine show from a journalist who says that she used to work in newsrooms and ‘it’s a fact’ (which I can only find clipped and shared in a tweet) Or the article that I already posted in this thread about the actual Netflix ‘we weren’t contacted for comment’ debacle: www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ellievhall/royal-family-press-office-harry-meghan-documentary-changeEllie Hall, the journalist who wrote it, confirmed that she’d been sent screenshots of said WhatsApp group. The amount of denial going on from some here is ridiculous. I know it’s disappointing to have your illusions about how the Royal Family operates shattered, but honestly, there’s so much independent confirmation that what Harry has said happens does happen. And frankly, it’s been obvious for years that it’s how the Royal Reporter system operates - it has to be, because the alternatives are that the reporters at supposedly reputable news organisations are just making all of their ‘Palace sources’ up or that the Royal Court has comprehensively failed in their due diligence when it comes to security of personal information and the integrity of the staff they hire to work for the Royal Family - which is absolutely mind-boggling when the monarch and heir to the throne both have access to confidential government papers. |
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Post by kathryn on Jan 4, 2023 17:21:55 GMT
Low got that story the employees who went to him. No doubt people talk with loose lips they always do but to claim it was systematic bullying…there is simply no evidence. I can’t believe I missed this bit earlier. Yes, Low got that story from the employees who went to him. The ‘employees’ *are* the press secretaries. Because they are the ones authorised to speak to journalists. Otherwise the minute he admitted he had been sent that story the HR department should be sacking someone for gross misconduct. There’s a record of whoever that email was sent to, and they are not allowed to breach confidentiality by revealing it to *anyone else* who might go to the press with it, let alone speak to the press themselves. Obviously, that is gross misconduct. It’s a breach of GDPR! The only way that an internal investigation did not take place over *any* of these leaked stories, is if they are tacitly authorised by Kensington Palace. People act as if the normal laws governing data protection and privacy don’t apply to Harry and Meghan. They do! Which is why Meghan won a summary judgement against the Mail over the letter to her father |
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 4, 2023 21:35:48 GMT
Jason Knauf was a witness in the court case. He wasn’t leaking to the press. It was a court of Law. Of course he was helping H and am with that book Finding Freedom.
Yes I’m sure the employees that were sacked did talk…that is their right.
The journalists all said that the two couples were very easy sneak with eachother and I have doubt when relations broke down that they were.
I wouldn’t be listening to an American journalist though, what do they know.
I don’t see any of it as dark and twisted and conspiracy as you seem to. I see it for what it is. Family relations broke down. There was manipulation of the media, no doubt by both sides. One continues to out in the open but I do not think they set out to destroy Meghan and ai doubt they have a What’s App group.
The press get briefed sure on the story someone wants to send out but doesn’t mean they write it. Meghan and a Harry brief,
The absolute worst at all this skull duckery is Charles. Who was quite frankly unbelievable around 20 to 25 years ago but that seems to have levelled out.
the media should not have published that letter. They won because they published too much. But it was her friends who leaked its existence. It wasn’t Thomas Markle. Once the media knew about it they hunted it down. Of course the royals give stories to papers….does Harry not. It’s not necessarily against anyone else just putting the point across. Everyone knows when they read them. Every public figure does that. Is it nice. No. Is it the way it works. Yes. Do you have to grow up and work with the system.
probably.
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Post by sfsusan on Jan 4, 2023 21:47:52 GMT
There was manipulation of the media, no doubt by both sides. Wouldn't coordinated manipulation of the media be, by definition, a conspiracy? |
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 4, 2023 22:02:22 GMT
There was manipulation of the media, no doubt by both sides. Wouldn't coordinated manipulation of the media be, by definition, a conspiracy? To get your own side across? then H and M do to. You can’t control the media. You can’t work with them. You literally can’t engage with them in any way if to you want to survive. But what if you are stuck in a Faustian Pact with them because you need them and they need you too. You do your best. You do have your story put forward if you need to. Doesn’t mean you destroy others. But in the end the Crown must survive. I watched the Royal Mob and a historian said that the British Royal Family survived while others, in some cases, lost their heads because they are pragmatic and a bit ruthless. You think it’s easy? Harry won’t win with the media in any way. He had a chance to escape thst dreadful co dependency he was born into…he hasn’t because he needs money. You don’t engage with them. You keep them at arms length. How is going on TV saying he wants his Dad back going to help him. It’s a disaster. It’s an unravelling of a human. If it was anyone else we would be shouting stop. But we consume them, because we think we own them. Well that worked out well for his mother. Harry won’t get a response from this. All trust is gone and his relationships are broken. And in the end all his journalist mates dying to give his voice an airing care not one jot for him. |
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Post by sfsusan on Jan 4, 2023 22:28:47 GMT
To get your own side across? then H and M do too. I'm not sure a husband and wife defending themselves would be considered a conspiracy by most people. Multiple members of an organization all carrying out similar actions to a similar end with no consequences from their management fit the definition much better. However, as an almost-disinterested viewer (American), in my opinion, pretty much everybody involved has messed this up. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jan 4, 2023 22:30:35 GMT
Jason Knauf approached the Mail on Sunday voluntarily, and offered them confidential material on Meghan (the judge rejected some of the material he offered as being irrelevant to the case). Knauf also made edited extracts from Meghan’s emails public, which were damaging to her; when Knauf was ordered to disclose the full unedited emails what do you know - they didn’t make Meghan look bad. There were also emails accidentally sent to Meghan’s lawyers showing that Knauf was working for the tabloid and against Meghan.
Multiple journalists have said Knauf fed them stories, and he’s been close friends with Dan Wootton since they were at university together. Knauf is the one who invented the bullying story, which no one else has backed up.
It’s pretty undeniable that Knauf was leaking against Harry and Meghan, and hard to imagine why he’s been so excessively lavished with royal honours when at the very least he betrayed the RF, leaked to press, and was terrible at his stated job. Unless he was under orders from Charles or William.
I really don’t think it’s some kind of crazy conspiracy that the RF didn’t like the ambitious black American actress, and continued the patterns of multiple generations in sacrificing lesser royals to the press, and leaking stories in order to control their own media image.
Remember the Cambridges threatened Krishnan Guru Murphy with false arrest to cover up William’s secret political meeting. Their aggressive stance towards media coverage they dislike (the Tatler piece, the Botox claim, the hair extensions claim, the “human rights violation” thing, and Rose Hanbury) has been shown time and time again. Of course they leak stories and manipulate the press. Everyone in the entertainment industry does it, why should royals be any different?
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