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Post by inthenose on Jul 13, 2022 17:25:28 GMT
Why can’t they just tell the story, without including political commentary or shoehorning in Instagram references? Every OAT show feels designed by committee, with the committee being exclusively made up of people who all think the same. It is theatre groupthink and it has to stop. Day One - First Production MeetingHip Director [she/they]: Our vision is to take this classic story and modernise it to appeal to a younger audience. [sips soy milk decaf latte and reclines in chair, checking Instagram feed]Hip Writer [he/that]: What do kids like nowadays? I mean, technically we need to have Cruella de Ville in the show, although personally I object to naming a woman ‘Cruella’ because it is highly offensive to— Producer [he/him - balding, of the establishment]: Social medias! - that’s the ticket! I know of the social medias. I love the social medias with all the social medianess of it. Think of the marketing possibilities! My friend’s daughter has a social medias and… Hip Director [becoming flustered]: Look! We are moving too far away from my vision here. The point is I really hate the patriarchy. Make it work. I want jokes about soft targets like Boris Johnson and old people, or we will never speak to our 13-21 year old demographic. Writer: I got it! “Boris is old and smelly”. [everyone laughs]
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 18:43:01 GMT
Why can’t they just tell the story, without including political commentary or shoehorning in Instagram references? Every OAT show feels designed by committee, with the committee being exclusively made up of people who all think the same. It is theatre groupthink and it has to stop. Day One - First Production MeetingHip Director [she/they]: Our vision is to take this classic story and modernise it to appeal to a younger audience. [sips soy milk decaf latte and reclines in chair, checking Instagram feed]Hip Writer [he/that]: What do kids like nowadays? I mean, technically we need to have Cruella de Ville in the show, although personally I object to naming a woman ‘Cruella’ because it is highly offensive to— Producer [he/him - balding, of the establishment]: Social medias! - that’s the ticket! I know of the social medias. I love the social medias with all the social medianess of it. Think of the marketing possibilities! My friend’s daughter has a social medias and… Hip Director [becoming flustered]: Look! We are moving too far away from my vision here. The point is I really hate the patriarchy. Make it work. I want jokes about soft targets like Boris Johnson and old people, or we will never speak to our 13-21 year old demographic. Writer: I got it! “Boris is old and smelly”. [everyone laughs] So, I'm assuming you've seen it then? Or are you simply condemning everyone involved because someone mentioned Cruella is an influencer? Because while I adore the classic, the Cruella film was a big hit, and great fun. Bringing it to modern times (like the live action films did when they were released) isn't woke, or calling out a patriarchy or anything like that.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 13, 2022 19:20:11 GMT
Why can’t they just tell the story, without including political commentary or shoehorning in Instagram references? Every OAT show feels designed by committee, with the committee being exclusively made up of people who all think the same. It is theatre groupthink and it has to stop. Day One - First Production MeetingHip Director [she/they]: Our vision is to take this classic story and modernise it to appeal to a younger audience. [sips soy milk decaf latte and reclines in chair, checking Instagram feed]Hip Writer [he/that]: What do kids like nowadays? I mean, technically we need to have Cruella de Ville in the show, although personally I object to naming a woman ‘Cruella’ because it is highly offensive to— Producer [he/him - balding, of the establishment]: Social medias! - that’s the ticket! I know of the social medias. I love the social medias with all the social medianess of it. Think of the marketing possibilities! My friend’s daughter has a social medias and… Hip Director [becoming flustered]: Look! We are moving too far away from my vision here. The point is I really hate the patriarchy. Make it work. I want jokes about soft targets like Boris Johnson and old people, or we will never speak to our 13-21 year old demographic. Writer: I got it! “Boris is old and smelly”. [everyone laughs] So, I'm assuming you've seen it then? Or are you simply condemning everyone involved because someone mentioned Cruella is an influencer? Because while I adore the classic, the Cruella film was a big hit, and great fun. Bringing it to modern times (like the live action films did when they were released) isn't woke, or calling out a patriarchy or anything like that. Well, when the theatre emailed me to offer a comp I was tempted. Then I spoke with friends who went last night - all three hated it - and realise that the OAT’s new creative policy is now completely irrelevant to me. I don’t need to ever sit through another “Legally Blonde” atrocity on the senses, thank you very much. I am told the jokes don’t land, the costumes are typically modern OAT (garish and very cheap) and my friends, all being over the age of 30, felt strongly that once again this show wasn’t made “for them”. If, at some point in the future, they are able to produce to a show which is actually true to the source material, true to the spirit of the piece and appropriately cast I would consider it. After seeing Legally Blonde, I was informed the show wasn’t “for me” by cast. How do I know this is? I’m going to assume, based on everything I’ve heard, that it’s not.
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Post by bangbang on Jul 13, 2022 22:33:17 GMT
You wish they would leave political commentary out of it whilst projecting your own very obvious politics into denigrating a show you haven’t seen. Got it!
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Post by inthenose on Jul 13, 2022 22:50:10 GMT
You wish they would leave political commentary out of it whilst projecting your own very obvious politics into denigrating a show you haven’t seen. Got it! Strawman argument from someone who just posted last week to announce they were seeing their first ever West End show. You know nothing more of my politics or career than I care about yours. The difference is I am not charging people £70 a head to hear me take pot-shots at rubbish politicians or agendas I don’t like. I’m not getting paid for it, either. If I were to read Pride and Prejudice out loud to you, I wouldn’t need to alter the text to make Mr. Darcy a YouTuber and throw in ‘satire’ about government sleaze to “update the story for 2022 sensibilities”. As for “denigrating a show I haven’t seen”, I’ll gladly take that free ticket if they threw in travel expenses and a full refund for the disaster of Legally Blonde. Otherwise I think I’ll not bother thanks, especially given the response I’ve been getting from real life people whose opinion I value. Thanks for your response though, always happy to help newbies!
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Post by mikey on Jul 13, 2022 22:55:02 GMT
You wish they would leave political commentary out of it whilst projecting your own very obvious politics into denigrating a show you haven’t seen. Got it! Strawman argument from someone who just posted last week to announce they were seeing their first ever West End show. You know nothing more of my politics or career than I care about yours. The difference is I am not charging people £70 a head to hear me take pot-shots at rubbish politicians or agendas I don’t like. I’m not getting paid for it, either. If I were to read Pride and Prejudice out loud to you, I wouldn’t need to alter the text to make Mr. Darcy a YouTuber and throw in ‘satire’ about government sleaze to “update the story for 2022 sensibilities”. As for “denigrating a show I haven’t seen”, I’ll gladly take that free ticket if they threw in travel expenses and a full refund for the disaster of Legally Blonde. Otherwise I think I’ll not bother thanks, especially given the response I’ve been getting from real life people whose opinion I value. Thanks for your response though, always happy to help newbies! You have way too much negativity for a show you haven’t seen.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 13, 2022 22:59:44 GMT
Good stuff - I’ll leave this here as I can tell this is going to really sidetrack things. I do hope everyone who goes enjoys it, anything would be an improvement on LB anyway.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 14, 2022 0:26:01 GMT
I don't really see the point in updating it if I'm honest — the only reason she's interested in the puppies is because she loves furs. That just doesn't work nowadays. They were seen as a luxury item, now they're not.
The bits with the dogs travelling the country are pretty timeless anyway, so don't feel that dated (well, if you ignore the fact that they'd have had a much easier time on the roads!).
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Post by shady23 on Jul 14, 2022 7:25:01 GMT
I have already booked for this but I definitely do not want to hear anything about Boris. I have heard enough from him to last me a lifetime.
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Post by greenswan on Jul 14, 2022 7:57:40 GMT
Saw this last night. The first half fell almost completely flat for me, excluding the cute dog puppets - boring and no energy. The social media/ideology stuff around Cruella doesn't really work as motivation and it's neither done in way where it's funny nor shocking in the right way, just unpleasant. The sound was bad for me - perhaps because I was high up on the side but I could not make out most of the words when it was a group singing.
Costumes were alright. Two nice ideas that stood out were the way they did her coat in one scene and when they visually represent a scream.
Second half actually improved quite a bit - songs were more engaging, the dancing stepped up a notch and the plot finally got moving.
The whole thing is a bit weirdly pitched, based on audience presumably meant to be child-friendly but then political jokes, digs at social media and some of the dance imagery are clearly geared towards adults.
Not really sure whether to recommend.
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Post by ladidah on Jul 14, 2022 11:14:48 GMT
I want to escape into another world when seeing a production, not awful corny jokes about Boris or the media.
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cg
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Post by cg on Jul 14, 2022 11:33:57 GMT
Saw this last night ..unfortunately it didn’t hit many spots ..no real need to update the context as the updated scenario will be so out of date fairly soon anyway …songs in the first half in particular were rather dull and many didn’t seem to go anywhere although they picked up in Act two . Kate Fleetwood did well with what she had but it says something when the biggest reaction was for the ‘surprise’ visitor at the end .
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Post by inthenose on Jul 14, 2022 12:19:07 GMT
I was thinking about this earlier. I wonder if they changed Cruella because evening acknowledging wearing real fur is super taboo in 2022. I am extremely anti-fur myself, but I can just imagine a baying Twitter mob all over it for “promoting animal cruelty”. Before they know what’s hit them, PETA wallies are outside with placards saying “Down With This Sort of Thing” and “Careful Now”.
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Post by og on Jul 14, 2022 12:32:30 GMT
You wish they would leave political commentary out of it whilst projecting your own very obvious politics into denigrating a show you haven’t seen. Got it! Strawman argument from someone who just posted last week to announce they were seeing their first ever West End show. You know nothing more of my politics or career than I care about yours. The difference is I am not charging people £70 a head to hear me take pot-shots at rubbish politicians or agendas I don’t like. I’m not getting paid for it, either. If I were to read Pride and Prejudice out loud to you, I wouldn’t need to alter the text to make Mr. Darcy a YouTuber and throw in ‘satire’ about government sleaze to “update the story for 2022 sensibilities”. As for “denigrating a show I haven’t seen”, I’ll gladly take that free ticket if they threw in travel expenses and a full refund for the disaster of Legally Blonde. Otherwise I think I’ll not bother thanks, especially given the response I’ve been getting from real life people whose opinion I value. Thanks for your response though, always happy to help newbies! Sorry to resuscitate this, but I just wanted to say that I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of people based on how long they have or haven't been attending West End shows. Theatre (and it's discussion) should be inclusive - even if views aren't aligned. By all means disagree, but to call someone out for not having been to as much theatre as someone else is a little below the belt, imo.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 14, 2022 13:27:36 GMT
I was thinking about this earlier. I wonder if they changed Cruella because evening acknowledging wearing real fur is super taboo in 2022. I am extremely anti-fur myself, but I can just imagine a baying Twitter mob all over it for “promoting animal cruelty”. Before they know what’s hit them, PETA wallies are outside with placards saying “Down With This Sort of Thing” and “Careful Now”. But on the other hand she is supposed to be evil like the devil so hardly bothered about what PETA might think about her love for fur. Making a fur lover the villain of the piece alienates her even more and is perfectly fine in my opinion, and I want to see her wearing fur and lots of it (fake of course).
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 14, 2022 13:53:38 GMT
Cruella DeVille or Cruel Devil-; it's all in a name
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Post by bangbang on Jul 14, 2022 13:54:33 GMT
Strawman argument from someone who just posted last week to announce they were seeing their first ever West End show. You know nothing more of my politics or career than I care about yours. The difference is I am not charging people £70 a head to hear me take pot-shots at rubbish politicians or agendas I don’t like. I’m not getting paid for it, either. If I were to read Pride and Prejudice out loud to you, I wouldn’t need to alter the text to make Mr. Darcy a YouTuber and throw in ‘satire’ about government sleaze to “update the story for 2022 sensibilities”. As for “denigrating a show I haven’t seen”, I’ll gladly take that free ticket if they threw in travel expenses and a full refund for the disaster of Legally Blonde. Otherwise I think I’ll not bother thanks, especially given the response I’ve been getting from real life people whose opinion I value. Thanks for your response though, always happy to help newbies! Sorry to resuscitate this, but I just wanted to say that I don't think it's fair to be dismissive of people based on how long they have or haven't been attending West End shows. Theatre (and it's discussion) should be inclusive - even if views aren't aligned. By all means disagree, but to call someone out for not having been to as much theatre as someone else is a little below the belt, imo. It’s ok, it’s exactly the response I expected. Some people don’t like being challenged. “Newbie” I’m so insulted!! 😂😂. Oh wait, no I’m not, it’s not 1997! I’ll leave it there and carry on reading the thoughtful and interesting posts from those who have attended the shows.
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Post by ladidah on Jul 14, 2022 15:03:11 GMT
Surely her wearing fur would be even more shocking now days.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 14, 2022 17:18:29 GMT
Surely her wearing fur would be even more shocking now days. I think there is good shocking and theatre-getting-complaints shocking. I think it would’ve been actually a pretty cool subject to raise, if we must insist on everything being based on “issues”. They could’ve addressed how cruel the process is and it’s all right there in the source material. Re: the above. I think there is a perception to some that posters on this forum are outsiders to the biz, who haven’t been sent scripts of shows, work on these shows (or very likely know someone tangentially who works on any given show). The West End is a very small world and everyone knows each other. I know some pretty big names who read here. Sometimes they learn things here before they learn them backstage. I haven’t seen the show yet, but based on everything I know I’m not going to.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 14, 2022 17:37:39 GMT
But that's why updating it makes no sense to me. You wouldn't be an influencer if you wore fur — people would complain.
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Post by ceebee on Jul 14, 2022 19:12:26 GMT
I'm going to see this on Saturday and am not a huge fan of cheap gags and puns. However, I do look forward to seeing Cruella's puppies.
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Post by bangbang on Jul 14, 2022 19:22:48 GMT
Surely her wearing fur would be even more shocking now days. I think there is good shocking and theatre-getting-complaints shocking. I think it would’ve been actually a pretty cool subject to raise, if we must insist on everything being based on “issues”. They could’ve addressed how cruel the process is and it’s all right there in the source material. Re: the above. I think there is a perception to some that posters on this forum are outsiders to the biz, who haven’t been sent scripts of shows, work on these shows (or very likely know someone tangentially who works on any given show). The West End is a very small world and everyone knows each other. I know some pretty big names who read here. Sometimes they learn things here before they learn them backstage. I haven’t seen the show yet, but based on everything I know I’m not going to. And personally I wouldn’t disagree with this at all. It’s a well thought out post that I can appreciate. I might not have been to many shows but I have been a fan of musicals all of my life. Blah, blah blah childhood etc. but my mum and I bonded over them when things were difficult and I never forgot that. I’ve been a metal head and j-rock fan for forty years or more but I’ve never forgotten my mum singing along to Carousel. I’m sorry if I upset you before, it’s really not like me usually. I’ll metaphorically shake your hand if you’re ok with it.
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Post by inthenose on Jul 14, 2022 20:07:32 GMT
I think there is good shocking and theatre-getting-complaints shocking. I think it would’ve been actually a pretty cool subject to raise, if we must insist on everything being based on “issues”. They could’ve addressed how cruel the process is and it’s all right there in the source material. Re: the above. I think there is a perception to some that posters on this forum are outsiders to the biz, who haven’t been sent scripts of shows, work on these shows (or very likely know someone tangentially who works on any given show). The West End is a very small world and everyone knows each other. I know some pretty big names who read here. Sometimes they learn things here before they learn them backstage. I haven’t seen the show yet, but based on everything I know I’m not going to. And personally I wouldn’t disagree with this at all. It’s a well thought out post that I can appreciate. I might not have been to many shows but I have been a fan of musicals all of my life. Blah, blah blah childhood etc. but my mum and I bonded over them when things were difficult and I never forgot that. I’ve been a metal head and j-rock fan for forty years or more but I’ve never forgotten my mum singing along to Carousel. I’m sorry if I upset you before, it’s really not like me usually. I’ll metaphorically shake your hand if you’re ok with it. Mate, I’m never upset! It’s a pleasure to welcome all aboard. I am sorry if I came off harsh. Better worded, I would’ve said something like “you don’t need to see the ABBA musical knowing you loathe ABBA”. Thing is with me, I’ll always state my opinion even if I’m “paddling against the tide” as Pierre Trudeau once said. It’s because I believe it based on my own experiences. Other people believe different based on their own. If you ever have any questions or problems I’m just a DM away, but no, never a need to apologise unless you do something wrong - which you absolutely didn’t.
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Post by FJ on Jul 15, 2022 8:35:23 GMT
Decided to sleep on it before posting in case I was going mad.
So I saw this last night on a TodayTix rush ticket. I'll be honest, I was a bit put off before going by Cruella being an influencer and various other reports I heard, but I ended up really enjoying the show.
I know other posters have said the second act is where it really picks up, but I wouldn't say whilst watching the first half I thought it was dull or slow, but I do get that in comparison Act 2 has a lot of the livelier numbers. But I thought both were strong.
Within the first 5 minutes of Cruella being on stage I have to say that I absolutely hated it. Once I got over the initial shock of her being from East London rather than the well spoken heiress she's usually portrayed as though, she really grew on me.
Cruella's nephews, who to me seemed like Kevin and Perry, provided a lot of the comedy of the show, and I laughed a lot.
I do think they have got a bit lost with who they think they are aiming the show at, with a large number of families with young kids in the audience, but some really dark humour throughout (mainly directed at Cruella's sister, no spoilers). I love dark humour so I found it very funny but there were always a lot of gasps and a lot of people not finding it as funny. I think a lot might be cut during previews.
Other posters have mentioned a lot of Boris gags, and the only one I noticed was a brief impression during one song (which worked well I thought) so I don't know if some have been cut already?
There were a few sound issues, some ensemble members looking a bit lost in numbers etc. but as this was technially only the second official preview this is of course to be expected.
I wouldn't say it's a masterpiece by any means, but in terms of enjoyment level, I had a smile on my face almost throughout (a few cringes here and there).
The setting is great, some of the scenes are done very very well I think, they use the whole OAT space, and I cannot even compare this to Legally Blonde, this was in a different league I think. I will definitely be returning to see this again before it closes.
4* from me.
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Post by Jon on Jul 15, 2022 10:16:40 GMT
I'm going to see this on Saturday and am not a huge fan of cheap gags and puns. However, I do look forward to seeing Cruella's puppies. Let's hope the show isn't a dog's dinner....
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