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Post by lynette on Jul 10, 2019 18:59:17 GMT
You seen this? They are going to warn people about sexy bits and violent bits in plays. More than the usual, this play contain...which is usual. Allison Pearson makes a funny about how you would warn re Hamlet so I won’t repeat here as we are all cognoscenti. But is this necessary?
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Post by joem on Jul 10, 2019 19:53:15 GMT
The new scheme which the Donmar has introduced giving descriptions of scenes which might upset theatregoers has been criticised in The Guardian as "a warning too far".
Wholeheartedly agree. The idea that audiences should feel "comfortable" in the theatre at all times is patronising and plain wrong. One of theatre's roles, amongst others, is to challenge audiences. If this was not the case we would still be writing well-made plays about family members misbehaving a little bit to the concern of Ma and Pa. Another one is to entertain; if you're told what's going to happen beforehand then maybe you won't bother to go and see the play?
I guess this mirrors the "safe space" ideology being imposed in some universities. Uniformity and lack of debate may hinder progress but they sure as hell will kill the theatre.
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Post by learfan on Jul 10, 2019 20:26:19 GMT
Sadly common in the States, some of the stuff in the regional theatres there makes you wonder if they are actually trying to put people off!
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Post by learfan on Jul 10, 2019 20:29:29 GMT
The new scheme which the Donmar has introduced giving descriptions of scenes which might upset theatregoers has been criticised in The Guardian as "a warning too far". Wholeheartedly agree. The idea that audiences should feel "comfortable" in the theatre at all times is patronising and plain wrong. One of theatre's roles, amongst others, is to challenge audiences. If this was not the case we would still be writing well-made plays about family members misbehaving a little bit to the concern of Ma and Pa. Another one is to entertain; if you're told what's going to happen beforehand then maybe you won't bother to go and see the play? I guess this mirrors the "safe space" ideology being imposed in some universities. Uniformity and lack of debate may hinder progress but they sure as hell will kill the theatre. Pathetic! Seems to be a sign of the times we now live in where you have to treat adults as children.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 20:46:32 GMT
There have been more than a few productions I've seen where I'd have appreciated a prior notice along the lines of "Warning: This show is crap". But I don't think that's what they intend.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 20:53:05 GMT
Even in shows when there are warnings about guns it has ruined the show a bit for me as I am expecting something fatal to happen which I probably wouldn’t have if it wasn’t a warning, would be better to say a loud bang so at least it isn’t as obvious. I know people need warnings but I think websites should have a superstar late metioning warnings so that it doesn’t spoil the whole show.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 10, 2019 20:58:30 GMT
The idea that audiences should feel "comfortable" in the theatre at all times is patronising and plain wrong. I totally disagree. Warnings have been routine since the early days of cinema (the ratings system and BBFC warnings on posters and, more detailed, online), while the increasingly lengthy trailers for film and TV give you a very good idea of the tone and violent content an upcoming drama will contain. Until the 1960s plays were censored for strong content. As for TV, content warnings before a drama starts are also routine and - crucially - if you don't like the way a TV show is going, you can pick up your handset and turn over. If you don't like what's on screen in a cinema you can just walk out. You can't walk out in the theatre. Once you take your seat you are stuck there until the interval, unless you want to disturb both the audience AND the actors on stage. And, crucially, good theatre is a far more intense experience than TV or film. It's why it still exists. If your lives have been so untroubled that nothing on stage disturbs you, lucky you. That's not the case for some of us. I have clinical anxiety, have had some pretty bad experiences in life and I like to be able to look up content warnings should I need to. I'm not talking about a theatre putting a placard up saying 'contains gunshots' - that will spoil the plot - but flagging up content warnings that you can ask ushers or FOH staff about is VERY welcome. The Donmar did NOT put up spoilers on the walls - the details were online. You had to look them up.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 10, 2019 22:06:05 GMT
Hang on, I'm slightly confused. What have the Donmar actually done?
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 10, 2019 23:20:46 GMT
The Donmar haven’t done anything, like many theatres they have information available about sensitive content (eg portrayals of rape) so people with PTSD or similar can avoid something that might cause them to have a panic attack. You have to actively search for it on the Donmar site, you can’t stumble onto it by accident. The press are getting their knickers in a twist over something that isn’t new and is standard practice.
Do you really think a rape survivor is being a “snowflake” by not wanting to witness a rape scene?? Imo the snowflakes are the ones throwing their toys out the pram over something that doesn’t affect then and which they’ll never see unless they go looking for it.
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Post by londonpostie on Jul 10, 2019 23:27:27 GMT
You seen this? They are going to warn people about sexy bits and violent bits in plays. More than the usual, this play contain...which is usual. Allison Pearson makes a funny about how you would warn re Hamlet so I won’t repeat here as we are all cognoscenti. But is this necessary? I've seen Europe. Fwiw, one of the warnings is for a hand on a leg. Actually, pretty much the knee.
Having said that I had a girlfriend back in the day who had previously been subjected to a rape ordeal in Turkey and a few years later she still woke up in the night bolt upright and distressed. If I were still with her, and if I knew about the warnings .. I would at least suggest going somewhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 3:07:26 GMT
Threads merged
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2,761 posts
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Post by n1david on Jul 11, 2019 3:27:59 GMT
Make them available so that people who have concerns about particular issues can check in advance. Don’t push them to people who don’t want to know.
The BBFC went too far (in my opinion) with their warnings - I remember going to see a film where the pre-film certificate included a warning “contains scenes of attempted suicide” which spoiled the film to some extent given I spent the early part of the film wondering “who’s it going to be?”
I know there are people triggered by certain events - I am too, there are things in my life that when an event happens or a particular song plays I can get very upset, and there are shows I’ve chosen not to see because of the subject matter - so if there are people who want to avoid certain specific situations, give them the opportunity to know it advance. But give the rest of us the right to discover stuff for ourselves.
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Post by marob on Jul 11, 2019 6:13:02 GMT
I'm not easily offended but some people are, so fair enough, put vague warnings about strong language or violence. but I'm really not a fan of the more detailed content warnings.
One that pops up regularly are warnings about gunshots, but then you just end up waiting for someone to be shot. Years ago, there was an episode of The Sopranos that was spoiled by Channel 4 (or E4?) warning about sexual violence. So rather than a really shocking scene coming out of the blue, as the creators intended, the context changes and you're instead placed in the weird and pretty creepy postion of waiting for a character to be attacked.
I always wonder how people who are offended by swearing go about their day-to-day business. I hear people swear all the time, with no regard to who's listening, so are they just offended constantly? How do they not become immune it?
I just don't like censorship in general. On TV especially, I think there's too much self-censorship. There was an episode of Coach Trip (used to be a guilty pleasure) where they bleeped out someone saying Goddamn. Is that really necessary? It seems to be becoming common practice to avoid showing nudity, or blur it out, even after the watershed. Then there's double standards where the issue of racism is generally avoided at all cost by UK productions, yet they'll happily broadcast something like Angry Boys, where a white comedian is blacked up and frequently uses "The N Word".
Even the news seems to constantly try not to offend people. I don't think the image of the drowned migrant father and daughter was broadcast, was it? Back when New Orleans flooded after Hurricane Katrina they showed countless bodies just lying or floating in the streets. It was disturbing, yes, but it bloody well should be.
Sorry I've gone off on a tangent and rambled on too much, but to me this is just one tiny part of a huge issue.
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 11, 2019 6:35:44 GMT
That’s exactly what they are doing, surely, n1david?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 6:37:26 GMT
I don't see a problem with the way they have done this. It's no different from other theatres which say on the website they will provide content warnings if you contact them. For the Donmar you have to specifically look for this info: each production page says That links here with links to content warning for each production - www.donmarwarehouse.com/visit/content-advisories/Each of those pages displays a warning similar to what you might see on entry to the theatre. eg for Sweat - Then there's a spoiler protected section with specifics about sensitive scenes. So if the general warning indicates you may have an issue, you can then check in detail if there will be a problem for you. Really can't see why anyone would object to this. The oversensitive people are the ones who get terribly offended by the concept of content warnings.
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4,029 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 11, 2019 7:31:20 GMT
What I find slightly annoying about this is that warnings don't cover everything. I have no problem seeing people shot dead but, due to emetophobia, have a massive problem with seeing actors pretending to be sick. That's never included in warnings. I try to check plots beforehand but it's not always possible to find out.
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Post by edi on Jul 11, 2019 7:45:16 GMT
What I find slightly annoying about this is that warnings don't cover everything. I have no problem seeing people shot dead but, due to emetophobia, have a massive problem with seeing actors pretending to be sick. That's never included in warnings. I try to check plots beforehand but it's not always possible to find out. Totally agree. I am not going to see top girls because apparently there is sick in it. I would welcome such warnings. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to see certain stuff for whatever reason and I welcome the donmar initiative.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 7:49:14 GMT
You could ask the Donmar if this is something they will be including in future warnings. I’m aware from comments I’ve seen here and on other forums that this is a relatively common phobia
They are inviting feedback on the initiative
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Jul 11, 2019 8:20:47 GMT
It’s funny to see people here objecting to this because we actually do it pretty regularly for people with concerns!
How often has someone posted to ask about blood/gore, because it makes them faint, and received a reply?
I’ve seen people flag up if emetophobes might have an issue with a scene.
‘Male nudity, no dogs’ became such a running jokes that it was turning up in thread titles for a while.
‘I’ve heard that this production contains xyz, which I find triggering, can someone please describe it for me in spoiler tags so I can decide whether I can watch this show or not?’ would never NOT get a helpful response here.
How is this any different?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 8:25:34 GMT
The Donmar haven’t done anything, like many theatres they have information available about sensitive content (eg portrayals of rape) so people with PTSD or similar can avoid something that might cause them to have a panic attack. You have to actively search for it on the Donmar site, you can’t stumble onto it by accident. The press are getting their knickers in a twist over something that isn’t new and is standard practice. Do you really think a rape survivor is being a “snowflake” by not wanting to witness a rape scene?? Imo the snowflakes are the ones throwing their toys out the pram over something that doesn’t affect then and which they’ll never see unless they go looking for it. Although their information isn't great; I seem to recall people who asked for content info for Belleville were warned that there would be loud music and female nudity, which is a reasonable warning if you maybe have sensory issues or were thinking about taking an 11 year old along with you, but really not helpful at all to the people who have lost a loved one to suicide and who would choose to avoid a play that features a reasonably graphic attempt (like Belleville), or at least appreciate a warning so they know it's coming and it doesn't hit them in the face like a frying pan in the theatre. If you don't need content warnings then that's great, don't seek them out on the theatre websites, and also make sure you close your eyes at the cinema when the BBFC classification screens pop up before a film, and it may also be worth taking a minute to be thankful that you haven't experienced any trauma in your life that would make a work of fiction a potential minefield for you. But at the very VERY least, could people maybe not be disparaging of the entire concept just because it's not something for you? Other people find content warnings helpful, or useful, or even essential, and it just seems rude to consider them a nonsense just because *you* don't find them so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 8:40:50 GMT
Wonder if this current initiative is a reaction to feedback on this issue regarding Belleville?
Just remembered there was quite a bit of discussion here on “Man of La Mancha” and the general view seemed to be there should have been a stronger content warning for the assault scene in that
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4,029 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 11, 2019 9:20:22 GMT
You could ask the Donmar if this is something they will be including in future warnings. I’m aware from comments I’ve seen here and on other forums that this is a relatively common phobia They are inviting feedback on the initiative
As I've never been to the Donmar I'm not sure there's much point in me contacting them specifically. I was thinking of warnings general. Maybe I should try contacting the NT: I still haven't forgiven them for The Light Princess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 9:54:18 GMT
Good point regarding timing. For future productions they already have general info on sensitive themes and an email contact for further info. I guess for future seasons this could go up when the shows are announced
They don’t say what you are supposed to do if you buy a ticket then find from the warnings you can’t attend but i would imagine they would refund or exchange tickets for credit otherwise the whole thing is a bit pointless
And regarding comments on censorship - there is no censorship happening. Providing warnings means they are able to continue to present “difficult” content.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 10:07:03 GMT
I always wonder how people who are offended by swearing go about their day-to-day business Within a few weeks of starting at a public school at 11 I'd learnt every swear word I've ever known, including a couple of school-specific ones I've heard nowhere else.
Years ago I'd have said that if you have issues with particular types of scenes you could always phone the box office and ask, but with increasing numbers of ticket sales being farmed out to call centres it's becoming more and more difficult to find expert information.
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Post by missthelma on Jul 11, 2019 10:12:23 GMT
There's nothing wrong with 'warnings' about content but it does raise an issue of what you include and where you stop. It's impossible to know what may trigger someone as an audience is a fairly mixed bunch. So everything? Major obvious things? Or nothing?? It becomes a minefield to navigate once you open the door and probably impossible to please everybody.
I do wonder though about 'real life' in which there are no warnings or content spoilers to help us prepare. We all develop coping mechanisms to get through this or we'd never leave the house so why in a theatre/cinema/tv show is it different? Is there something about a representation of a 'thing' in a scenario where we want to be entertained that goes to something primal in us?
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