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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 10:18:09 GMT
I really love doesthedogdie.com for warnings, and think it's a real shame that theatre moves too fast for it to be practicable to set up a theatrical equivalent. It tracks WAY more than dog death these days, and some of the things it tracks are weirdly specific, but as with "may contain nuts" warnings on peanut packaging, it's clearly been an issue for someone in the past so they figure these things are worth including.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 11, 2019 10:47:32 GMT
Yes, it's a great (and interesting) site - "are there clowns?". I wish it would also include "are animals killed for real?" because that is the case with several films, especially non-UK, and even here the BBFC were unable to confirm or deny whether the pigeon shooting scenes in The Favourite were real or simulated. It looks real, and if so, is illegal in the UK (pigeon shooting is legal - releasing caged birds to guns is not). Btw, Present Laughter has a latex warning, though this is because the balloons drift into the first rows of the audience. |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 11, 2019 11:10:01 GMT
I do wonder though about 'real life' in which there are no warnings or content spoilers to help us prepare. We all develop coping mechanisms to get through this or we'd never leave the house so why in a theatre/cinema/tv show is it different? Is there something about a representation of a 'thing' in a scenario where we want to be entertained that goes to something primal in us? It's not the case that 'we all develop coping mechanisms' - some people have their quality of life very severely affected by things like PTSD and phobias. There are people who literally struggle to leave the house as a result. People pay actual money and spend precious time going to the theatre. If you have a particular issue that makes seeing certain things miserable for you, of course you want to avoid spending your time and money on that! Sometimes a content warning isn't even about avoiding the thing entirely, it's about bracing yourself for its impact or allowing you a chance to look away from it. I did this for someone re: suicide and eating disorders in Rocketman on twitter the other day - she wanted to know when to step out of the cinema to avoid the things that would trigger her. A detailed enough description meant she actually got to enjoy watching 95% of the film instead of avoiding it entirely. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 11, 2019 11:33:00 GMT
Even the news seems to constantly try not to offend people. I don't think the image of the drowned migrant father and daughter was broadcast, was it? Back when New Orleans flooded after Hurricane Katrina they showed countless bodies just lying or floating in the streets. It was disturbing, yes, but it bloody well should be. The drowned migrants photo was on the Guardian's online front page. I think the decision in Britain not to show images of dead bodies and injuries in, for example, terrorist attacks was to avoid creating a climate of extremism and backlash. A relative who was living in France during the 7/7 London attacks says news footage there was far more graphic, and as a child on holiday in another continental city on the day it suffered a terrorist attack the evening papers were full of incredibly graphic, and very prurient pictures (including frame by frame images of someone dying). I think these fed into the more extreme politics other countries have, and can't help feeling the internet opening the floodgates for such images here has helped foster more extreme and divisive politics here now too. |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 11, 2019 11:48:32 GMT
It's not just about 'not offending' people. The time of the news broadcast will be factored in - are there children watching?
Also, when a major incident happens there's a lot of chaos and confusion over who has been involved in it - you don't show images of dead bodies from local terrorist attacks because you don't want their relatives to discover they have been killed from images of their dead body on the evening news.
That's why you will see more graphic coverage of incidents in other countries - there's not the same level of concern that someone will recognise a loved one.
Of course, broadcast news has stricter regulation than the newspapers. Newspapers on the continent are a law unto themselves, unfortunately - British tabloids are not meant to intrude into grief but they still do, if they think they'll get away with it.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 11, 2019 13:13:54 GMT
That's why you will see more graphic coverage of incidents in other countries - there's not the same level of concern that someone will recognise a loved one. The images I saw in the city's newspapers were of people dying that afternoon in that city. Given the number of EU nationals living in London, they and tourists are also killed in terrorist attacks here. I don't think it has anything to do with concerns about the next of kin, more to do with the culture: schoolfriends who holidayed on the continent would bring back their news magazines for the gore (plane crash, bus crash, dead kids, all sorts). Twitter and youtube changed all that here: many schoolchildren now will have watched beheading videos and allsorts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2019 13:48:14 GMT
Sometimes a content warning isn't even about avoiding the thing entirely, it's about bracing yourself for its impact or allowing you a chance to look away from it. I did this for someone re: suicide and eating disorders in Rocketman on twitter the other day - she wanted to know when to step out of the cinema to avoid the things that would trigger her. A detailed enough description meant she actually got to enjoy watching 95% of the film instead of avoiding it entirely. Ah see I’m the opposite - if I know something is coming then it completely spoils it for me. I remember when I originally saw Blood Brothers it said there would be gunshots in it so I spent the next 3 hours getting increasingly aggitated about when it was to happen. On the flip side in the original Great Britain at the national (not the hay market as they changed it by then) you had the copper hang himself on stage at the end. Suicide freaks me out and had I known what was gonna happen b4 I would have just been waiting and sh*tting myself all the way through. As it was I had just a few moments of feeling that. but I really don’t see a problem with a theatre listing everything subtly on their website. If u don’t want to know (like me) then just don’t look! Magic! |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 11, 2019 15:36:52 GMT
I don't see a problem with the way they have done this. It's no different from other theatres which say on the website they will provide content warnings if you contact them. For the Donmar you have to specifically look for this info: each production page says That links here with links to content warning for each production - www.donmarwarehouse.com/visit/content-advisories/Each of those pages displays a warning similar to what you might see on entry to the theatre. eg for Sweat - Then there's a spoiler protected section with specifics about sensitive scenes. So if the general warning indicates you may have an issue, you can then check in detail if there will be a problem for you. Really can't see why anyone would object to this. The oversensitive people are the ones who get terribly offended by the concept of content warnings. Thanks for that detailed explanation. Based on that, I don't see what the problem is. It caters for those who don't want to know or don't care, and those who need the greater detail. It sounds to me like a case of nothing to see, move along. |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jul 11, 2019 15:50:10 GMT
What I find slightly annoying about this is that warnings don't cover everything. I have no problem seeing people shot dead but, due to emetophobia, have a massive problem with seeing actors pretending to be sick. That's never included in warnings. I try to check plots beforehand but it's not always possible to find out. I suppose the warnings can't cover everything, as in every possible phobia or trigger, can they? I do sympathise, as an emetophobe myself. Puking scenes in films and TV shows have, it seems to me, become more or less commonplace over the last 20 years or so. Mrs Backdrifter is seriously arachnophobic, she can't look at any sort of visual representation of them and finds it difficult to even say the word 'spider'. It makes me notice by proxy how much spider images crop up and how frequently they appear in trailers and even adverts. Metro became so bad for this they must have received complaints as they started putting a warning on the previous page but it didn't last. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 11, 2019 17:55:29 GMT
There's nothing wrong with 'warnings' about content but it does raise an issue of what you include and where you stop. It's impossible to know what may trigger someone as an audience is a fairly mixed bunch. So everything? Major obvious things? Or nothing?? It becomes a minefield to navigate once you open the door and probably impossible to please everybody. I do wonder though about 'real life' in which there are no warnings or content spoilers to help us prepare. We all develop coping mechanisms to get through this or we'd never leave the house so why in a theatre/cinema/tv show is it different? Is there something about a representation of a 'thing' in a scenario where we want to be entertained that goes to something primal in us? In real life it's often easier to escape from things than when you're in a theatre. With my own particular phobia, the one time in the last few years when I saw someone being sick in public I was able to quickly walk away. When I see someone pretending to be sick on stage I can't get up & walk away without disturbing dozens of other people, & possibly the actors as well, so I have to stay put & try not to have a full-blown panic attack in the middle of the theatre. Also, I am someone who goes to the theatre for enjoyment & escapism. If I want to be distressed I can watch the news for free! |
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Post by peelee on Jul 12, 2019 16:32:43 GMT
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Post by peggs on Jul 14, 2019 7:39:04 GMT
Returned a ticket on basis of trigger warning the other day, tip off actually came from someone on here so rang for more info and swapped for credit. Very pleased this was an option rather than just writing off the money or risking ending up blacked out on theatre floor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 12:35:46 GMT
The drowned migrants photo was on the Guardian's online front page. A week or so later they had quite an interesting article on the reaction to using the image and the though processes behind how they used it. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/30/guardian-graphic-image-father-daughter-rio-grande (this story doesn't use the photo) Also covers some of the problems with automated digital systems (eg they included warnings about the image, but it then appeared in thumbnails linking to the article, so you saw it anyway) |
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Post by peggs on Jul 15, 2019 18:28:05 GMT
Returned a ticket on basis of trigger warning the other day, tip off actually came from someone on here so rang for more info and swapped for credit. Very pleased this was an option rather than just writing off the money or risking ending up blacked out on theatre floor. sorry not really correct thread but on basis of the above can anyone tell me how credit works at the royal court? I can't see it anywhere on my account, should I be able to? Will it only show up when I try to buy something? |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 16, 2019 9:09:48 GMT
Will it only show up when I try to buy something? Yes, it should show up as you check out in the methods of payment bit (with the Young Vic you have to phone the box office to ask - no good if it's a queue day). |
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Post by harrietcraig on Aug 8, 2019 14:00:45 GMT
This warning appears on the website of the Goodspeed Opera House in Connecticut, in their description of a new musical called Because of Winn Dixie:
“Please note that there is a live dog in this show who will appear on stage and in the auditorium. If you have a Service Animal as defined by the ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act], please contact the Box Office immediately. In order to ensure your safety and the safety of your Service Animal, we must seat you in an appropriate location. Also note that the dog and his understudy are both hypoallergenic.”
I love “the dog and his understudy”.
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Post by winonaforever on Aug 8, 2019 15:11:34 GMT
This warning appears on the website of the Goodspeed Opera House in Connecticut, in their description of a new musical called Because of Winn Dixie: “Please note that there is a live dog in this show who will appear on stage and in the auditorium. If you have a Service Animal as defined by the ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act], please contact the Box Office immediately. In order to ensure your safety and the safety of your Service Animal, we must seat you in an appropriate location. Also note that the dog and his understudy are both hypoallergenic.” I love “the dog and his understudy”. That sounds like a show I'd really enjoy!  |
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Post by sf on Aug 8, 2019 15:53:05 GMT
Also note that the dog and his understudy are both hypoallergenic. Does the show also involve a Waterpik and a Cuisinart? (Sorry, Hedwig flashback.) |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 8, 2019 16:36:21 GMT
This warning appears on the website of the Goodspeed Opera House in Connecticut, in their description of a new musical called Because of Winn Dixie: “Please note that there is a live dog in this show who will appear on stage and in the auditorium. If you have a Service Animal as defined by the ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act], please contact the Box Office immediately. In order to ensure your safety and the safety of your Service Animal, we must seat you in an appropriate location. Also note that the dog and his understudy are both hypoallergenic.”I love “the dog and his understudy”. Are they hosing them down with an inert liquid before sending them out on stage? if so I have a problem with that, being allergic to inert liquids. 🙂 |
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Post by danb on Aug 8, 2019 17:09:33 GMT
No, certain breeds are hypoallergenic; I remember that the Obamas were looking for one (or Baz & Chelle as they are to me) and they plumped for a Portugese Water Dog (looks like something between a sheepdog and a poodle) for that very reason.
All of the facts kids, all of ‘em! 😬
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Post by missthelma on Aug 8, 2019 18:43:18 GMT
This warning appears on the website of the Goodspeed Opera House in Connecticut, in their description of a new musical called Because of Winn Dixie: “Please note that there is a live dog in this show who will appear on stage and in the auditorium. If you have a Service Animal as defined by the ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act], please contact the Box Office immediately. In order to ensure your safety and the safety of your Service Animal, we must seat you in an appropriate location. Also note that the dog and his understudy are both hypoallergenic.” I love “the dog and his understudy”. So many questions. How does a dog call in sick? Or notify of a family emergency thus necessitating the understudy. Plus how do you know the understudy is truly 'off book'. I mean how embarrassing would that be?
Mind you it seems a strange thing to announce, service dogs are for the most part, trained to ignore distractions such as other dogs, noises etc when 'working', note I'm not talking about 'emotional support' animals but the announcement makes it clear they are talking 'service' dogs. And surely a dog in the theatah is similarly trained? Are they expecting a full on knock down drag out fight, leads at dawn??
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 8, 2019 19:00:44 GMT
I don’t like gunshots as a gun went off by me as a child, that has stayed with me, so I suffer ptsd. Some people might have epilepsy so strobe lighting would be inappropriate, someone may also have various other traumas, if there is sexual or violence and this gets triggered. The first a theatregoer knows about upsetting scenes is a notice on the door as you go in. Great you already have your ticket and too late to go anywhere else, so you are left in a kind of limbo.
So why doesn’t the Society of London Theatre, who prime job is to make theatre inclusive for all, design a standard template for every theatres to use and potential customers can make an informant judgement by clicking on a icon on the shows website homepage, so if people don’t want to be informed, they can swerve. but people who need to be advised can breathe easier. Also the same notice can be displayed going into the audiotorium.
Stratford East also does this on their website and I think this is brilliant.
It is hard for a 6ft 2” guy to ask about gunshots.
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Post by lynette on Aug 10, 2019 13:17:07 GMT
Brilliant idea, Phantom.
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Post by Backdrifter on Aug 10, 2019 16:08:56 GMT
It is hard for a 6ft 2” guy to ask about gunshots. Why? |
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 10, 2019 17:23:26 GMT
As I said it is hard, very hard, but I don’t need to give a reason - if a production contains assault, domestic violence or molestation , imagine how harder it would be for a lady or just maybe a male who has been physically or sexually assaulted to enquire - they just wouldn’t ask, they instead won’t attend.. So brilliant, bring it on, now vulnerable people can make an informed deciasion, with out feeling uncomfortable.
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