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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 10:27:35 GMT
This tweet (from someone probably not linked to the show) gets a 'like' from a cast member:
"Andrew Lloyd Webber will be the reason Cinderella fails, not his incredibly talented “service industry” cast. Him and him only will cause the downfall. Without the cast and backstage team, there is no show - remember that."
At least 6 cast members have now liked or commented on various tweets.
What's been touted (by ALW) as the show's message - be your authentic self - is exhibiting itself here. Diversity, of all kinds (race, sexuality, body type, age, neurodivergence) is an increasing factor in people's assertiveness. Performers have a number of constituencies - the production, the audience, and whatever community(ies) they identify with. There's a tipping point where there's only so much you'll do to please the production or audience, before you feel the weight/support of your community encouraging you to stand tall even if it may damage you financially in the short term. 'What price integrity'.
Agreed, ALW is not replaceable. But the days when a recommendation for chorus line or ensemble meant 'identikit' are waning. Performers are turned out of drama schools with a far greater variety of individual looks, heritages, and styles now, and they can carry that with them, and go to auditions not looking at a load of people exactly like them. It's no longer a competition to be 'correct' or 'fit in', or prostrate yourself in an abject manner.
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Post by stuartmcd on Nov 25, 2021 10:56:31 GMT
The cast are outright calling him a liar.
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Post by cezbear on Nov 25, 2021 10:59:16 GMT
Oh dear. Whatever went down was clearly quite strong. With that said, I reeeeeally wish they'd keep it off Twitter. Rodney isn't a lead/name like CHF is, what she might be able to get away with doesn't necessarily follow for other cast members who are less established in their careers. They're all following her example, possibly assuming it's acceptable because their lead is doing it, and it's a terrible idea IMO.
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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 25, 2021 11:13:53 GMT
Oh dear. Whatever went down was clearly quite strong. With that said, I reeeeeally wish they'd keep it off Twitter. Rodney isn't a lead/name like CHF is, what she might be able to get away with doesn't necessarily follow for other cast members who are less established in their careers. They're all following her example, possibly assuming it's acceptable because their lead is doing it, and it's a terrible idea IMO. They're all grown adults perfectly capable of assessing situations and making their own decisions. I hardly think Carrie can be accused of leading anyone astray. |
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Post by cezbear on Nov 25, 2021 11:17:14 GMT
Oh dear. Whatever went down was clearly quite strong. With that said, I reeeeeally wish they'd keep it off Twitter. Rodney isn't a lead/name like CHF is, what she might be able to get away with doesn't necessarily follow for other cast members who are less established in their careers. They're all following her example, possibly assuming it's acceptable because their lead is doing it, and it's a terrible idea IMO. They're all grown adults perfectly capable of assessing situations and making their own decisions. I hardly think Carrie can be accused of leading anyone astray. Well yes that's true. But just when you have people in their first jobs anywhere (not Rodney) they will naturally look at the experienced colleagues, and in this case she's company lead, as an example of what is and isn't acceptable. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 25, 2021 11:24:22 GMT
They're all grown adults perfectly capable of assessing situations and making their own decisions. I hardly think Carrie can be accused of leading anyone astray. Well yes that's true. But just when you have people in their first jobs anywhere (not Rodney) they will naturally look at the experienced colleagues, and in this case she's company lead, as an example of what is and isn't acceptable. Or she's speaking up because they can't. She will still be able to get jobs even if ALW decides he hates her, because she has friends in the industry and her name is known. Others might not have those benefits. But if the entire cast stays silent then ALW, and other producers, will feel like they can do and say anything they like to casts without being held accountable. Some instances of higher ups treating casts incredibly poorly are only coming out publicly 30 or so years after they happened, because no one said anything and so that behaviour was implicitly condoned and allowed to continue. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 25, 2021 11:30:30 GMT
What if ALW is right and some of the cast are taking the proverbial?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 25, 2021 11:46:15 GMT
It is true that performing in any show is a privilege. There are so many trained (and untrained) actors/singers/dancers who would love to appear in any West End show. There are very few irreplaceable performers. Very few indeed.
So you could argue that this puts too much power in the hands of producers. But there is no other way of making expensive musicals happen.
It is also true that no show has the right to any audience members. You have to compete for every ticket sale.
Empty theatres are bad for producers. They are also bad for performers.
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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 12:35:24 GMT
What if ALW is right and some of the cast are taking the proverbial? He should indicate it to the Director or Resident Director - who should say, 'give me a fortnight to work through this, and come and see the show again, whether planned or unannounced, and let me know if you're happier or not'. |
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Post by Seriously on Nov 25, 2021 12:46:11 GMT
What if ALW is right and some of the cast are taking the proverbial? He should indicate it to the Director or Resident Director - who should say, 'give me a fortnight to work through this, and come and see the show again, whether planned or unannounced, and let me know if you're happier or not'. It really doesn't work like that. The most you'd get it "Fix it today, or you're fired". |
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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 13:17:08 GMT
He should indicate it to the Director or Resident Director - who should say, 'give me a fortnight to work through this, and come and see the show again, whether planned or unannounced, and let me know if you're happier or not'. It really doesn't work like that. The most you'd get it "Fix it today, or you're fired". Yes, if there was catastrophic bad time keeping, forgotten lines, missed cues, can't be arsed stage moments - then that kind of 'snap out of it' message could and should be instantaneously given to any cast or crew. I haven't seen anything that points to that being the case on this show, particularly via audience reports that are more than in love with the cast's commitment, energy, and skill in selling it. Feels like this was more a general will/yearning/straining for things to just be....better somehow. 'Why isn't my show that BIT better? If only...blah...would happen, it surely is better already'. Anyway, he's completely unnecessarily slung the label of 'problem show' as an albatross round its neck now. I can't imagine it getting to Broadway - unless he hands it over as a property to another producer/director to do exactly what they want with it. Will be interesting to see how many of the London cast renew contracts. That'll be the next drama, with people making clear they turned down a new contract. Management then leaking that new contracts weren't offered to certain individuals. Then Cast saying they made it clear that they didn't want a new contract, so that's why management didn't offer one. Stand by. |
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Post by Jonnyboy on Nov 25, 2021 13:18:40 GMT
I was really keen to see this next year but this whole furore has turned me right off it. No matter what is happening, it’s just so unprofessional to use social media to answer back and continue the debate. I no longer care what’s happening or who is wrong and right. I’m just turned off from going to see the show.
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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 25, 2021 13:24:05 GMT
It really doesn't work like that. The most you'd get it "Fix it today, or you're fired". Yes, if there was catastrophic bad time keeping, forgotten lines, missed cues, can't be arsed stage moments - then that kind of 'snap out of it' message could and should be instantaneously given to any cast or crew. I haven't seen anything that points to that being the case on this show, particularly via audience reports that are more than in love with the cast's commitment, energy, and skill in selling it. Feels like this was more a general will/yearning/straining for things to just be....better somehow. 'Why isn't my show that BIT better? If only...blah...would happen, it surely is better already'. Anyway, he's completely unnecessarily slung the label of 'problem show' as an albatross round its neck now. I can't imagine it getting to Broadway - unless he hands it over as a property to another producer/director to do exactly what they want with it. Will be interesting to see how many of the London cast renew contracts. That'll be the next drama, with people making clear they turned down a new contract. Management then leaking that new contracts weren't offered to certain individuals. Then Cast saying they made it clear that they didn't want a new contract, so that's why management didn't offer one. Stand by. I'd imagine cast retention will be pretty low. No one is exactly leaping to ALW's side to support him... |
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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 13:24:39 GMT
I was really keen to see this next year but this whole furore has turned me right off it. No matter what is happening, it’s just so unprofessional to use social media to answer back and continue the debate. I no longer care what’s happening or who is wrong and right. I’m just turned off from going to see the show. I feel the same. I held off because going to see a musical of 'Cinderella' doesn't interest me much, unless it was truly magical and strange, with daring music. I expect ALW not to waste his ability on 'less', that many others could also come up with. But, I would have gone along, and very open to falling for it after all. Now, it just feels very sour. Some shows really need to radiate that they are made/performed in the spirit of the material itself. When you know it's a front for acrimony and mistrust it just doesn't work. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 25, 2021 13:34:34 GMT
Well,I think most of us would agree Andy has been a bit of a c*ck. But I still maintain that there’s no smoke without fire. Something is wrong in that cast.
Also, whether it’s connected with the above or not, his leading lady berating and patronising customers on Twitter is not a good look, or a good advert for the show.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 25, 2021 13:45:55 GMT
Yes, if there was catastrophic bad time keeping, forgotten lines, missed cues, can't be arsed stage moments - then that kind of 'snap out of it' message could and should be instantaneously given to any cast or crew. I haven't seen anything that points to that being the case on this show, particularly via audience reports that are more than in love with the cast's commitment, energy, and skill in selling it. Feels like this was more a general will/yearning/straining for things to just be....better somehow. 'Why isn't my show that BIT better? If only...blah...would happen, it surely is better already'. Anyway, he's completely unnecessarily slung the label of 'problem show' as an albatross round its neck now. I can't imagine it getting to Broadway - unless he hands it over as a property to another producer/director to do exactly what they want with it. Will be interesting to see how many of the London cast renew contracts. That'll be the next drama, with people making clear they turned down a new contract. Management then leaking that new contracts weren't offered to certain individuals. Then Cast saying they made it clear that they didn't want a new contract, so that's why management didn't offer one. Stand by. I'd imagine cast retention will be pretty low. No one is exactly leaping to ALW's side to support him... There will be zero problem in casting replacements. |
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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 14:03:11 GMT
True.
How many pounds do I win for predicting that the next will be the dream cast, he's never heard it sung better, and everything's as he first dreamed it would be. Which will be extra galling for the current cast, as the new one will rehearse a new version of the show (facilitated by hardly any of the originals staying on, which he'll label an unexpected benefit) so different results are down to those changes not any deficiency in the original performances.
Then, IF it goes to Broadway it will all change again, and the perfect new London production will not appear so perfect after all, but cast and audiences will have been flattered into believing they had bought into the new improved version.
I win 1p? What?!!
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Post by fiyerorocher on Nov 25, 2021 14:20:33 GMT
I'd imagine cast retention will be pretty low. No one is exactly leaping to ALW's side to support him... There will be zero problem in casting replacements. Probably not, no. But at least people will be aware of what they might be walking into. |
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Post by h86 on Nov 25, 2021 15:16:50 GMT
This whole affair will no doubt be affecting the moral of the cast, crew etc and it’ll just get worse and worse….
There must be certain things/clauses in contracts about what can and can’t be done on social media by cast members?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 15:26:26 GMT
He should indicate it to the Director or Resident Director - who should say, 'give me a fortnight to work through this, and come and see the show again, whether planned or unannounced, and let me know if you're happier or not'. It really doesn't work like that. The most you'd get it "Fix it today, or you're fired". And that is exactly why that sort of behaviour should be publicly called out. It shouldn't happen. |
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Post by Jon on Nov 25, 2021 16:28:15 GMT
I do wonder if ALW would be better off just being the composer and not juggle being producer and theatre owner as well?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 25, 2021 17:16:47 GMT
I do wonder if ALW would be better off just being the composer and not juggle being producer and theatre owner as well? Problem is, he is currently not very good at either |
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Post by properjob on Nov 25, 2021 17:45:46 GMT
I wonder if Equity will get involved if there members are being treated badly?
Meanwhile in the stage Cam Mack has issued a strong statement contradicting another part of the ALW interview.
“The recent statement by Andrew Lloyd Webber that the decision to use a new orchestral line-up for the new production of The Phantom of The Opera at Her Majesty’s Theatre was solely mine is absolutely untrue. It was a joint decision by Andrew’s own company, the Really Useful Group and myself, in order for us to be able to afford to bring back this spectacular musical to such an intimate 1,200-seat theatre,”
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 25, 2021 18:10:22 GMT
1200 seats is not intimate....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 18:17:21 GMT
Patti LuPone has battle scars from her time with ALW - the man is a lunatic.
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