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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 18:25:16 GMT
I wonder if Equity will get involved if there members are being treated badly? Meanwhile in the stage Cam Mack has issued a strong statement contradicting another part of the ALW interview. “The recent statement by Andrew Lloyd Webber that the decision to use a new orchestral line-up for the new production of The Phantom of The Opera at Her Majesty’s Theatre was solely mine is absolutely untrue. It was a joint decision by Andrew’s own company, the Really Useful Group and myself, in order for us to be able to afford to bring back this spectacular musical to such an intimate 1,200-seat theatre,” Haha yes the highest grossing piece of entertainment (not just musicals) in the world needs help to be able to afford to run in a good sized theatre.
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Post by Jon on Nov 25, 2021 18:30:44 GMT
If I was being cynical, I bet if ALW and Cameron had got money from the CRF, Phantom would have still been the new production that's playing at Her Majesty's.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 25, 2021 19:03:01 GMT
I wonder if Equity will get involved if there members are being treated badly? Oh god. Treated badly? meaning the man who literally OWNS the product telling you he’s not happy? Being told to do better? The more I hear about this and see the cast “performing” on socials the more I’m siding with Andy.
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Post by stagebyte on Nov 25, 2021 20:39:34 GMT
Have to agree with Burly Bear here. Being treated badly is working in some dangerous hole on minimum wage on a 12 hour night shift. If the producer - your employer - payer of wages - giver of opportunities - can’t express that he’s not happy with what’s happening in his own show for whatever reason there’s something wrong. it’s time to suck it up and get on with it or complain to your union rep. Passive aggressive subtweets on Twitter are immature, unprofessional and smack of fragile egos who have never been told some home truths. Try workplace appraisals. You can only learn and grow from feedback. Was Andy harsh but fair or a complete nightmare? Who can say, but the silly teen subtweeting is wearing any sympathy I had with the cast to nil at this point. CHF can afford to play champion of the ‘little people’ but she can also afford to be out of work. Is she going to help them out when the show closes due to bad publicity and they have no job to go to. I think it’s quite telling who HASN’T piped up on the subject (there are 34 in the cast) Makes you wonder if those bleating the most were on the end of his ire? For those wondering about RUG and control over social media I know actors who have worked for them and social media is very tightly controlled with strict dos and donts so as not to tarnish the show’s reputation. The way certain actors have been behaving arguing with members of the ticket paying public on a wide range of Cinderella topics including calling one punter a ‘brat’ it was high time it got reined in. Actor /audience fighting was spiralling out of control.
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Post by max on Nov 25, 2021 21:40:27 GMT
Double post (well actually I've run out of patience with the whole farrago, on both sides, so deleted my sensible comment, in favour of...)
I suggest this is settled by a SING-OFF, as in the ALW casting shows.
Both sides face each other on the pavement outside a branch of Subway on Drury Lane, and finger snap and head wobble this Beyonce banger until someone apologises:
"Standing in the front yard telling me how I'm such a fool,
talking 'bout how I'll never ever find a man like you, got me twisted.
So since I'm not your everything, how about I'll be nothing, nothing at all to you.
Baby I won't shed a tear for you, I won't lose a wink of sleep,
'cause the truth of the matter is replacing you is so easy.
You could pack all your things, we're finished (You must not know 'bout me)
'Cause you made your bed, now lay in it (You must not know 'bout me)
I can have another you by tomorrow,
Don't you ever for a second get to thinking you're irreplaceable".
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Post by stagebyte on Nov 25, 2021 21:54:59 GMT
Workplace appraisals are performed 1-2-1. Also, good practice is that an appraisal should not be a place to spring a shock criticism on someone, who hasn't been given a chance to address that aspect at the earliest point. The appraisal is the place to review what happened. Nobody thinks a producer/leader had no right to criticise, instruct, or express disappointment. It's all about how it's done. As none of us actually know what he said over the phone to the cast (or whether any of them were involved in previous 1-2-1 talks with management in efforts to address aspects of criticism) it’s still a fair point that subtweeting criticism of your boss and calling your boss a liar and a dickhead is still not the way forward in the professional world of work.
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Post by forevercolours on Nov 26, 2021 9:39:38 GMT
So I was watching one of Carrie and Oliver’s videos from over the lockdown. (I really enjoyed what they did and found them all very interesting, hence why I go back and watch them every now and again)
There was a moment in this one that really made me laugh/cringe a bit at the irony of the situation. CHF mentions that there is no way Cam Mac of ALW will ever read a review saying that they weren’t very good on stage and think ‘oh, I’ll go get someone else, then.’
Just given everything that has happened at Cinders over the past few weeks makes this quite sad to hear her say as she clearly never thought anything like this would happen. (Obviously she hasn’t been recast but it seems as if ALW has in fact taken reviews to heart)
Here is the video and she says this around the 7 minute mark if you’re interested to hear her full quote and not my paraphrasing!
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Post by scarpia on Nov 26, 2021 9:58:49 GMT
There was a moment in this one that really made me laugh/cringe a bit at the irony of the situation. CHF mentions that there is no way Cam Mac of ALW will ever read a review saying that they weren’t very good on stage and think ‘oh, I’ll go get someone else, then.’ I assume at the time she had never heard about what happened to Patti in Sunset...
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Post by steve10086 on Nov 26, 2021 10:06:32 GMT
There was a moment in this one that really made me laugh/cringe a bit at the irony of the situation. CHF mentions that there is no way Cam Mac of ALW will ever read a review saying that they weren’t very good on stage and think ‘oh, I’ll go get someone else, then.’ I assume at the time she had never heard about what happened to Patti in Sunset... They never think it will happen to them!
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Post by forevercolours on Nov 26, 2021 10:08:35 GMT
I assume at the time she had never heard about what happened to Patti in Sunset... They never think it will happen to them! If it happened to Patti it can happen to anyone!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 11:25:46 GMT
There was a moment in this one that really made me laugh/cringe a bit at the irony of the situation. CHF mentions that there is no way Cam Mac of ALW will ever read a review saying that they weren’t very good on stage and think ‘oh, I’ll go get someone else, then.’ I assume at the time she had never heard about what happened to Patti in Sunset... I'm always surprised that these younger musical theatre performers don't know about the Sunset years and all that t. Rob Madge tweeted something similar the other day. Bizarre.
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Post by lewis on Nov 26, 2021 13:32:04 GMT
But your employer also doesn't roast you in the press... I don’t get why people are criticising CHF for being unprofessional for tweeting support for her cast mates and are then saying that ALW comments are fair. I’m no CHF fan but she, just like every other performer in that show should not have to listen to the producer/creator publicly criticise them. Even if he is a musical theatre legend and mega producer. There are many things I don’t like or agree with about my employer. However I don’t go slagging them off on social media. That is called “biting the hand that feeds you”. She is not a free agent. She’s employed and with that comes responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 15:25:15 GMT
But they are part of the service industry, most people in the UK are. It goes beyond hospitality. Medical and health, legal, education, financial, insurances etc etc all are service based. The UK economy is (I forget the exact stat) about 70% service sector based. Theatre has customers exchanging money for a service...to be entertained. They should treat the audience like customers, and not with the contempt that (Carrie mainly) has shown recently. What's quite staggering is how insulted the cast seem go be by this, they seem to think they are above being in the service sector. It's not alw directly, it's the insinuation of being in service that's triggering them http://instagram.com/p/CWtN0mboL8p
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Post by max on Nov 26, 2021 16:14:44 GMT
But they are part of the service industry, most people in the UK are. It goes beyond hospitality. Medical and health, legal, education, financial, insurances etc etc all are service based. The UK economy is (I forget the exact stat) about 70% service sector based. Theatre has customers exchanging money for a service...to be entertained. They should treat the audience like customers, and not with the contempt that (Carrie mainly) has shown recently. What's quite staggering is how insulted the cast seem go be by this, they seem to think they are above being in the service sector. It's not alw directly, it's the insinuation of being in service that's triggering them I have no doubt they know that they serve audiences, and serve authors/directors' intentions - it's just that IF they're sometimes a bit sh*t at it, it would be better to be told so in person, rather than have it broadcast impersonally over tannoy speakers to the assembled company or publicly on BBC Radio 4. That said - I hope that those pictured in that Insta picture endorse the sentiments of the poster and haven't been spoken for; unwise as it is. It does now feel that a very large amount of the company are openly in dispute with ALW. Around 11 have now shown an opinion in some way. An almost* unprecedented mess of disastrous artist management. *My disclaimer before someone says - you know nothing, what about 'Chi Chi Was A Burlesque Girl' at the Belasco on Broadway in 1957? Or 'Capeman'.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Nov 26, 2021 16:17:39 GMT
This sounds like one of the most toxic productions I can ever remember. Must be absolutely hideous having to a)perform the terrible material and b) deal with all this backstage tension.
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Post by max on Nov 26, 2021 16:25:52 GMT
On the last day of 'Good Morning With Anne and Nick' Alan Yentob, who'd cancelled the show, sent flowers. Anne Diamond headed hers directly upside down into the bin. Expect a lot of that. Perhaps the cast could establish a link with a local hospital and some good might come from this.
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Post by inthenose on Nov 26, 2021 19:51:47 GMT
Lots of them are entitled, precious little angels, aren't they? The more I see of their social media angsty whining, the more and more I side with ALW.
Frankly, many of them seem ghastly - and crucially, nightmare employees.
Also, where is Laurence Connor in all this? Speaks volumes that Andy's "yes man" is predictably silent, nodding along with everything his meal ticket says.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 26, 2021 19:57:32 GMT
Word on the street is that Andy’s phone call only came after attempts to resolve cast attitude problems via more traditional methods failed.
*this comes from a wholly unreliable source, but the same source that said it would be Beanie and Ramin in Funny Girl two months ahead of the announcement so…
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Post by kelly52 on Nov 26, 2021 21:00:00 GMT
Just my input, as an old turn who is now no longer in the business but spent quite a long time in the employ of ALW among others. Many fab times and, on a few occasions (ahem, no names mentioned) some really awful. This cast are standing up for themselves in the face of some nasty psychological warfare, in my experience. It happened to a cast I was part of back in the day (before twitter was the outlet it is now) and I know many MANY others it has happened to over the years. Defend him to your hearts content, but there is endemic subtle (and not so subtle) bullying across elements of this industry that wouldn’t be tolerated or acceptable in other ‘services’. So, cast of Cinderella, be strong, stick together as a group, and keep being vocal and positively rebellious. It’s the only way to deal with these velvet gloved thugs. It’s not always like this. Good luck.
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Post by Jon on Nov 26, 2021 21:02:59 GMT
But they are part of the service industry, most people in the UK are. It goes beyond hospitality. Medical and health, legal, education, financial, insurances etc etc all are service based. The UK economy is (I forget the exact stat) about 70% service sector based. Theatre has customers exchanging money for a service...to be entertained. They should treat the audience like customers, and not with the contempt that (Carrie mainly) has shown recently. What's quite staggering is how insulted the cast seem go be by this, they seem to think they are above being in the service sector. It's not alw directly, it's the insinuation of being in service that's triggering them I have no doubt they know that they serve audiences, and serve authors/directors' intentions - it's just that IF they're sometimes a bit sh*t at it, it would be better to be told so in person, rather than have it broadcast impersonally over tannoy speakers to the assembled company or publicly on BBC Radio 4. That said - I hope that those pictured in that Insta picture endorse the sentiments of the poster and haven't been spoken for; unwise as it is. It does now feel that a very large amount of the company are openly in dispute with ALW. Around 11 have now shown an opinion in some way. An almost* unprecedented mess of disastrous artist management. *My disclaimer before someone says - you know nothing, what about 'Chi Chi Was A Burlesque Girl' at the Belasco on Broadway in 1957? Or 'Capeman'. I think a lot of a people in theatre would disagree with it being called a service industry, it's a creative industry just like film and television.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2021 21:59:16 GMT
I have no doubt they know that they serve audiences, and serve authors/directors' intentions - it's just that IF they're sometimes a bit sh*t at it, it would be better to be told so in person, rather than have it broadcast impersonally over tannoy speakers to the assembled company or publicly on BBC Radio 4. That said - I hope that those pictured in that Insta picture endorse the sentiments of the poster and haven't been spoken for; unwise as it is. It does now feel that a very large amount of the company are openly in dispute with ALW. Around 11 have now shown an opinion in some way. An almost* unprecedented mess of disastrous artist management. *My disclaimer before someone says - you know nothing, what about 'Chi Chi Was A Burlesque Girl' at the Belasco on Broadway in 1957? Or 'Capeman'. I think a lot of a people in theatre would disagree with it being called a service industry, it's a creative industry just like film and television. It doesn't really matter what it's called, no label is an excuse for treating employees badly. Seems to me all they're asking for is basic respect as they haven't been given it. If that is truly the case then no wonder they are in open rebellion, they should be.
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Post by lolalou on Nov 26, 2021 22:48:02 GMT
But they are part of the service industry, most people in the UK are. It goes beyond hospitality. Medical and health, legal, education, financial, insurances etc etc all are service based. The UK economy is (I forget the exact stat) about 70% service sector based. Theatre has customers exchanging money for a service...to be entertained. They should treat the audience like customers, and not with the contempt that (Carrie mainly) has shown recently. What's quite staggering is how insulted the cast seem go be by this, they seem to think they are above being in the service sector. It's not alw directly, it's the insinuation of being in service that's triggering them http://instagr.am/p/CWtN0mboL8p How smug and self satisfied the comment section is by the various thesps. Particularly loathsome the hilarious comment by Carrie’s agent Helen Clarkson ‘Aprons on!’ They really do think they’re all a cut above don’t they?
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Post by chernjam on Nov 27, 2021 2:49:01 GMT
Honestly, most of us who work have bosses/employers we like and some we don't. This is beyond ridiculous at this point. To me, the cast seems like a bunch of entitled brats.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2021 11:11:13 GMT
I have no doubt they know that they serve audiences, and serve authors/directors' intentions - it's just that IF they're sometimes a bit sh*t at it, it would be better to be told so in person, rather than have it broadcast impersonally over tannoy speakers to the assembled company or publicly on BBC Radio 4. That said - I hope that those pictured in that Insta picture endorse the sentiments of the poster and haven't been spoken for; unwise as it is. It does now feel that a very large amount of the company are openly in dispute with ALW. Around 11 have now shown an opinion in some way. An almost* unprecedented mess of disastrous artist management. *My disclaimer before someone says - you know nothing, what about 'Chi Chi Was A Burlesque Girl' at the Belasco on Broadway in 1957? Or 'Capeman'. I think a lot of a people in theatre would disagree with it being called a service industry, it's a creative industry just like film and television. They would be wrong. The entertainment industry falls within the wider service sector. Like the vast majority of the UK work force. The UK is a service driven economy, something that has grown over the decades as manufacturing has decreased. As has been mentioned the divisions of the service sector is vast and diverse. Its not just those that 'put on aprons'. They don't make a tangible product to sell, they sell their imtangibkle skills and knowledge for profit so are service based. Their reaction and belittling of the service sector shows how entitled and snobbish many of them are, and how they think they are better than the majority of the UK. Older actors I'd understand a bit more having such an old fashioned attitude (reminds me of Nicola Mcaulif in the chitty documentary), but I'm surprised younger members have such out dated attitudes. ALWs alleged call is out of order and gives them reason to be angry. His comments about them being in the service sector though do not. In fact their alienating their customers even more.
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Post by Seriously on Nov 27, 2021 11:54:52 GMT
This last comment from "The Lord" is probably just the final straw.
So much for "Good Mental Health" in the workplace!
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