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Post by matilda1 on Oct 17, 2021 18:04:39 GMT
The Phantom, Killian Donnelly also berating an audience member on Twitter.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 17, 2021 18:09:37 GMT
Agree with max (WHY can't I figure out how to quote, oh well). This button  |
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Post by marob on Oct 17, 2021 18:59:31 GMT
To be fair to Ivano, when I saw it, at the end of the ball scene when Cinderella leaves, as CHF rushed out a little girl said “OK” really loudly. That set the audience off laughing while he’s alone on stage trying to act heartbroken. That must be incredibly frustrating and off-putting, especially as this is his first proper job.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 17, 2021 19:15:47 GMT
To be fair to Ivano, when I saw it, at the end of the ball scene when Cinderella leaves, as CHF rushed out a little girl said “OK” really loudly. That set the audience off laughing while he’s alone on stage trying to act heartbroken. That must be incredibly frustrating and off-putting, especially as this is his first proper job. Hopefully he’s not bothered. If he is then that would that beg the question as to why a student out of drama school has been given a lead role in a major show if they (understandably due to lack of experience) don’t have the ability to deal with audience reactions. |
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Post by inthenose on Oct 17, 2021 19:20:49 GMT
To be fair to Ivano, when I saw it, at the end of the ball scene when Cinderella leaves, as CHF rushed out a little girl said “OK” really loudly. That set the audience off laughing while he’s alone on stage trying to act heartbroken. That must be incredibly frustrating and off-putting, especially as this is his first proper job. Hopefully he’s not bothered. If he is then that would that beg the question as to why a student out of drama school has been given a lead role in a major show if they (understandably due to lack of experience) don’t have the ability to deal with audience reactions. Hard to disagree with that. Wonder how he would've coped at the Globe back in the day. |
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Post by max on Oct 17, 2021 22:35:22 GMT
Theatreboard showing its equal opps cred after all - No sexism here. On come the balancing pages of why Ivano shouldn't have been given the job. What is it about this show - I know many are disappointed by it - that causes such quickly triggered negativity towards its performers? I haven't seen this on any other thread for musicals. There seems to be antipathy that leaps out at the smallest opportunity to lash the leads, and suggest they're unworthy of their opportunity. Albeit couched in terms of fake-kind: 'I hope it's not the case that...[drop in any negative trait you fancy linking them to]'
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Post by tom on Oct 18, 2021 5:17:30 GMT
Theatreboard showing its equal opps cred after all - No sexism here. On come the balancing pages of why Ivano shouldn't have been given the job. What is it about this show - I know many are disappointed by it - that causes such quickly triggered negativity towards its performers? I haven't seen this on any other thread for musicals. There seems to be antipathy that leaps out at the smallest opportunity to lash the leads, and suggest they're unworthy of their opportunity. Albeit couched in terms of fake-kind: 'I hope it's not the case that...[ drop in any negative trait you fancy linking them to]' Or it could be that people don’t like self righteous social media posts from the leads? |
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Post by cezbear on Oct 18, 2021 6:11:01 GMT
Theatreboard showing its equal opps cred after all - No sexism here. On come the balancing pages of why Ivano shouldn't have been given the job. What is it about this show - I know many are disappointed by it - that causes such quickly triggered negativity towards its performers? I haven't seen this on any other thread for musicals. There seems to be antipathy that leaps out at the smallest opportunity to lash the leads, and suggest they're unworthy of their opportunity. Albeit couched in terms of fake-kind: 'I hope it's not the case that...[ drop in any negative trait you fancy linking them to]' Or it could be that people don’t like self righteous social media posts from the leads? Then where is the criticism for Killian Donnelly, for example? His tweet telling off audience members was far stronger and yet has gone completely without comment. Seems unfair to me (to be clear though I DON'T want to criticise Killian either!). |
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Post by danb on Oct 18, 2021 7:40:58 GMT
Both Carrie and Ivano more than deserve their leads. They are sublime. Getting second villager on the right to post about audience behaviour is unlikely to reach many people. Getting your leads to do it? Might stand a chance.
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Post by happytobehere on Oct 18, 2021 9:19:28 GMT
I’m seeing this Wednesday’s matinee - I already know Carrie isn’t scheduled but is there any way for me to find out if any other leads will be performing?
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Post by cezbear on Oct 18, 2021 9:31:34 GMT
I’m seeing this Wednesday’s matinee - I already know Carrie isn’t scheduled but is there any way for me to find out if any other leads will be performing?
Keep an eye on West End Covers twitter on the day - I haven't seen any other scheduled days off but only Carrie seems to post hers (mostly... VHB did once, I think).
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Post by johartuk on Oct 18, 2021 10:38:23 GMT
Both Carrie and Ivano more than deserve their leads. They are sublime. Getting second villager on the right to post about audience behaviour is unlikely to reach many people. Getting your leads to do it? Might stand a chance. I do think an issue with giving a lead role to a complete newbie is that they may have the training, but they lack the experience of working professionally and dealing with all the stuff that goes with that (rogue audience members being one obvious thing that no amount of training can really prepare you for). It's something that ALW addressed in the TV casting shows - would the contestants be able to deal with the pressures of being a WE lead...dealing with criticism, dealing with the pressure to perform to high standards, dealing with those times when things go wrong onstage...etc. If I was ALW, I'd be having words with my cast members about posting on social media and reminding them that they should think before posting anything in future, and should certainly avoid personal criticism of audience members. |
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Post by tom on Oct 18, 2021 11:22:41 GMT
Or it could be that people don’t like self righteous social media posts from the leads? Then where is the criticism for Killian Donnelly, for example? His tweet telling off audience members was far stronger and yet has gone completely without comment. Seems unfair to me (to be clear though I DON'T want to criticise Killian either!). Dunno. I don’t follow any of them. I just see what’s posted here  I did criticise Killian on the phantom thread though but that was because he is miscast. |
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Post by sophie92 on Oct 18, 2021 11:51:55 GMT
Or it could be that people don’t like self righteous social media posts from the leads? Then where is the criticism for Killian Donnelly, for example? His tweet telling off audience members was far stronger and yet has gone completely without comment. Seems unfair to me (to be clear though I DON'T want to criticise Killian either!). I think there’s a vast difference between calling audience members out for filming the show, which no-one is doing involuntarily, and criticising audience members for calling out during the show, when they may not be able to help it. |
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Post by dinolauras on Oct 18, 2021 14:07:43 GMT
This. Also just let the theatre staff deal with it? What’s with this show and the leads telling folk off every other day? The publicity/storyline is like panto so I can see the confusion there. However care should be taken with calling out audience members. How does Ivano know this particular person didn’t have a learning disability of some kind. Tourette’s? He wouldn’t. So actors just let front of house deal with it. It’s not your job to control the audience. Also ‘don’t film’ I’ve discussed this further up. Once the west end allowed bows to be filmed, then plastered them all over social media then it’s inevitable some theatre goers will get confused. They make NO announcement at the start of shows anymore so either bring back the announcement or accept folk are going to film or take photos. Not everyone is a regular or knows the etiquette. It is an elitist attitude to think they would automatically know in an age where everything is shared on SM. Time for the actual theatre to take responsibility and sort this out. Bringing back the pre show announcement would be a start. Most people can follow simple instructions. Those that don’t can be dealt with accordingly. All this bleating on social media by actors over this kind of thing ruins the magic for me Ivano. I want to remember you as the prince not some passive aggressive moaner I find that argument questionable. Surely if you have a disability which entails you shouting out in a theatre you shouldn't go? What should the theatre management do in such a situation? Go over, ask them to be quiet, told by them or someone on their behalf that they have a disability, "okay as you were". If I had a disability that caused me to involuntarily shout out in public, one thing I would avoid is theatres. It's not a necessity like education, transport etc., or a place where noise in public doesn't matter, such as a restaurant, for example, where it would be perfectly reasonable and correct to expect other diners to accept something of that nature. People do need to work around their problems and manage them to some extent. It seems to me that Ivano had good reason to complain about this situation. Sorry but this is disgustingly ableist. You're saying that people who have tourette's or learning disabilities shouldn't be able to go to the theatre to enjoy a show? I'm actually shocked at this comment. My brother has severe learning difficulties and one of his favourite things to do is go to the theatre. Yes, occasionally he'll ask for his drink in a normal speaking voice instead of a whisper, or will loudly declare "look at that!" at something he finds funny. We obviously try to tell him to whisper but sometimes he just gets too excited because he loves the theatre so much. You're saying that for that reason he should never be allowed to go and see a show? Just wow. |
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Post by Oliver on Oct 18, 2021 14:56:03 GMT
I find that argument questionable. Surely if you have a disability which entails you shouting out in a theatre you shouldn't go? What should the theatre management do in such a situation? Go over, ask them to be quiet, told by them or someone on their behalf that they have a disability, "okay as you were". If I had a disability that caused me to involuntarily shout out in public, one thing I would avoid is theatres. It's not a necessity like education, transport etc., or a place where noise in public doesn't matter, such as a restaurant, for example, where it would be perfectly reasonable and correct to expect other diners to accept something of that nature. People do need to work around their problems and manage them to some extent. It seems to me that Ivano had good reason to complain about this situation. Sorry but this is disgustingly ableist. You're saying that people who have tourette's or learning disabilities shouldn't be able to go to the theatre to enjoy a show? I'm actually shocked at this comment. My brother has severe learning difficulties and one of his favourite things to do is go to the theatre. Yes, occasionally he'll ask for his drink in a normal speaking voice instead of a whisper, or will loudly declare "look at that!" at something he finds funny. We obviously try to tell him to whisper but sometimes he just gets too excited because he loves the theatre so much. You're saying that for that reason he should never be allowed to go and see a show? Just wow. Hi, thank you for sharing this information and I apologise if I caused any offence with my post. I absolutely don't think that anyone should be prevented from going to the theatre. I was really raising this as a question as there may be some scenarios, for example someone who suffers extreme coughing fits, where there might be better alternatives for them (apart from anything else). I am sure that your brother's problem is perfectly manageable in the theatre, it sounds like that's the case, and there is no reason for him not to be there. |
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Post by alison on Oct 18, 2021 15:14:07 GMT
Sorry but this is disgustingly ableist. You're saying that people who have tourette's or learning disabilities shouldn't be able to go to the theatre to enjoy a show? I'm actually shocked at this comment. My brother has severe learning difficulties and one of his favourite things to do is go to the theatre. Yes, occasionally he'll ask for his drink in a normal speaking voice instead of a whisper, or will loudly declare "look at that!" at something he finds funny. We obviously try to tell him to whisper but sometimes he just gets too excited because he loves the theatre so much. You're saying that for that reason he should never be allowed to go and see a show? Just wow. Hi, thank you for sharing this information and I apologise if I caused any offence with my post. I absolutely don't think that anyone should be prevented from going to the theatre. I was really raising this as a question as there may be some scenarios, for example someone who suffers extreme coughing fits, where there might be better alternatives for them (apart from anything else). I am sure that your brother's problem is perfectly manageable in the theatre, it sounds like that's the case, and there is no reason for him not to be there.
BIB - except that's literally what you said in your first post, you used an example of someone who can't help from shouting out occasionally and said they "shouldn't go" and now you're trying to backtrack because you don't like being told how ableist that is? It's fine to reconsider and change your view with new information (in fact, it's healthy!), but don't try to claim you didn't say what's written there in black and white.
There is a huge difference between someone who doesn't care/think about the people around them and is just having a chat, singing along, shouting out because they think they're funny etc. and someone whose disability might cause them to involuntarily make noise, or a small child who doesn't know any better.
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Post by annette on Oct 18, 2021 15:29:03 GMT
I find that argument questionable. Surely if you have a disability which entails you shouting out in a theatre you shouldn't go? What should the theatre management do in such a situation? Go over, ask them to be quiet, told by them or someone on their behalf that they have a disability, "okay as you were". If I had a disability that caused me to involuntarily shout out in public, one thing I would avoid is theatres. It's not a necessity like education, transport etc., or a place where noise in public doesn't matter, such as a restaurant, for example, where it would be perfectly reasonable and correct to expect other diners to accept something of that nature. People do need to work around their problems and manage them to some extent. It seems to me that Ivano had good reason to complain about this situation. Sorry but this is disgustingly ableist. You're saying that people who have tourette's or learning disabilities shouldn't be able to go to the theatre to enjoy a show? I'm actually shocked at this comment. My brother has severe learning difficulties and one of his favourite things to do is go to the theatre. Yes, occasionally he'll ask for his drink in a normal speaking voice instead of a whisper, or will loudly declare "look at that!" at something he finds funny. We obviously try to tell him to whisper but sometimes he just gets too excited because he loves the theatre so much. You're saying that for that reason he should never be allowed to go and see a show? Just wow. |
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Post by danb on Oct 18, 2021 15:32:02 GMT
I had a severely disabled girl and her Mum in front of me at Bat the other day. They were in the very front row. The girl would make loud noises at exciting points and her Mum would calm her down. I went through the gamut of thought and emotions, from ‘oh no this is going go spoil it for me’ to ‘why would you sit in the front row’ to ultimately being overwhelmed with the joy the show gave the young girl. Was I wrong to have a thought process and think how it might affect me? This is all about our own personal levels of tolerance and understanding. I was totally right to feel aggrieved that my show might be spoilt by the distraction; we’re all allowed to be selfish sometimes, but ended up feeling something a lot stronger and more positive from the situation. So Oliver doesn’t need calling out for his opinion or concerns, and certainly shouldn’t be apologising. Indeed a little exposure to the situation might give him a bit more understanding. It’s not the same as the drunken louts that see any social gathering as an excuse to become noisy & ignorant. This young lady went for joy and stimulation and seemed to love every minute.
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Post by Oliver on Oct 18, 2021 16:15:28 GMT
Hi, thank you for sharing this information and I apologise if I caused any offence with my post. I absolutely don't think that anyone should be prevented from going to the theatre. I was really raising this as a question as there may be some scenarios, for example someone who suffers extreme coughing fits, where there might be better alternatives for them (apart from anything else). I am sure that your brother's problem is perfectly manageable in the theatre, it sounds like that's the case, and there is no reason for him not to be there.
BIB - except that's literally what you said in your first post, you used an example of someone who can't help from shouting out occasionally and said they "shouldn't go" and now you're trying to backtrack because you don't like being told how ableist that is? It's fine to reconsider and change your view with new information (in fact, it's healthy!), but don't try to claim you didn't say what's written there in black and white.
There is a huge difference between someone who doesn't care/think about the people around them and is just having a chat, singing along, shouting out because they think they're funny etc. and someone whose disability might cause them to involuntarily make noise, or a small child who doesn't know any better.
That is not literally what I said, I don't know where you're getting that from. I never said in my original post that people with these kinds of disabilities should be prevented from going to the theatre. I was talking about people themselves managing their own conditions and raising the question as to what the theatre management should do in such a situation. I was also making the point that if I had a condition that caused me to shout out involuntarily in public I personally would avoid theatres. If someone had a chronic condition which causes them to cough loudly and frequently throughout the show, do you think they should be at the theatre? This isn't rhetorical, I am genuinely interested to know what you think. |
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Post by lolalou on Oct 18, 2021 19:41:45 GMT
Regardless I think all of this conversation highlights the fact that we DON’T KNOW for certain why the person shouted out so perhaps best for the leads of the show to leave dealing with it to front of house team? It maybe ‘ruined the moment’ but What does posting about it after the event actually achieve? The people that wouldn’t dream of shouting out will continue to not do it. The people who can’t help it will continue to do so but now they or their carers will feel awful and shamed when doing so as it’s been called out by the actors on social media. The people who love to be the centre of attention and don’t give a damn about others and their enjoyment of a show will continue regardless.
I only saw Ivano’s post and Killian’s posts as they’ve been put on here. I don’t follow them and of course they are perfectly entitled to post whatever they want - but the takeaway I get from both posts (despite Killian’s assertion FOH were ‘all over it’) is that there’s a failure in the system somewhere and either FOH aren’t dealing with these issues effectively to the extent where the talent feel like they have to comment OR the system in place is set up to fail as a fair majority of the audience really don’t know what is expected of them in a theatre and the theatre doesn’t help themselves by not announcing ‘the rules’ before the performance starts . Every time an actor wades in about issues like this my first thought is where were the ushers? They have a hugely tricky job in this world of self entitlement and I can only imagine what the usher team must feel like when it’s posted all over Twitter that yet another performance has been disrupted - it should be dealt with in house - no need for passive aggressive ‘I see you’ posts.
Either way when you’ve enjoyed the shows and they’ve transported you to another world for a couple of hours and it’s followed by The Phantom and Prince Sebastian moaning on social media it takes away some of the mystique and glitter for me.
Genuine question: why did they stop the general announcement at the start? Unless there is a language barrier anyone who gets out a camera after being told point blank not to has some chutzpah
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Post by fiyerorocher on Oct 18, 2021 19:47:41 GMT
The Phantom and Prince Sebastian moaning on social media Actors are humans. They have just as much right to tweet their thoughts and opinions as anyone else. Once they step off the stage for the night, they are no longer the Phantom or Sebastian and it seems very strange to try and pretend they are? They're not on the clock 24/7! |
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Post by lolalou on Oct 18, 2021 19:52:53 GMT
The Phantom and Prince Sebastian moaning on social media Actors are humans. They have just as much right to tweet their thoughts and opinions as anyone else. Once they step off the stage for the night, they are no longer the Phantom or Sebastian and it seems very strange to try and pretend they are? They're not on the clock 24/7! Of course but in any other job they would be reprimanded by their employer for moaning about the customers in such a public manner. However badly they feel they’ve been treated you don’t see staff taking to the M&S Twitter feed to complain about specific customers on any given day. They would be sacked. M&S staff represent the company just like Killian and Ivano represent their shows/company. I don’t think complaining about the clientele is a good look. Complaints should be dealt with in house. |
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Post by fiyerorocher on Oct 18, 2021 19:58:30 GMT
Actors are humans. They have just as much right to tweet their thoughts and opinions as anyone else. Once they step off the stage for the night, they are no longer the Phantom or Sebastian and it seems very strange to try and pretend they are? They're not on the clock 24/7! Of course but in any other job they would be reprimanded by their employer for moaning about the customers in such a public manner. However badly they feel they’ve been treated you don’t see staff taking to the M&S Twitter feed to complain about specific customers on any given day. They would be sacked. M&S staff represent the company just like Killian and Ivano represent their shows/company. I don’t think complaining about the clientele is a good look. Complaints should be dealt with in house. They aren't tweeting from the show's official account, though. They're expressing their view as an individual. As far as I'm concerned, that's something everyone should be allowed to do as long as they're adhering to basic rules of human decency and not being racist, homophobic, etc. I also doubt the production companies have anything against their cast tweeting asking audiences not to film or yell out in quiet moments. |
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Post by inthenose on Oct 18, 2021 20:11:32 GMT
They are ambassadors for the brand, in this case the show.
If Killian Donnelly for instance worked in another industry, say a major high street store or an insurance company, and went online and publicly slagged off their customers, realistically he'd be looking at the sack - no matter whether his complaints were legitimate or not.
It just reeks of unprofessionalism, this is why so many companies have social media policies in place. In the past if you wanted to have a moan, you'd do it in the pub with your mates after the show. But rushing home to *publicly* criticise the very people who have paid often HUNDREDS OF POUNDS to be there just smacks of entitlement and tone deafness.
And I might as well add at this point, as I suspect there are some big egos involved for such little names, none of these performers have that much credibility anyway. These aren't multiple award winners, household names, superstars. It's not Michael Ball or Patti LuPone or Idina Menzel. It's Ivano Turco, making his professional stage debut. It's Killian Donnelly, who is the definition of average on toast. They're working actors who are jolly lucky to be playing lead roles at young ages in the West End.
I suggest that they suck it up, do their job quietly, and if they want to deal with specific audience members, do it the same way it has always been done. Tell the SM, who tells FOH, who deal with it. Be a professional and do your job.
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