Michael Jackson - Leaving Neverland documentary

The allegations have been swirling around for as long as I can remember. I am not sure this will make much difference - sadly.

It should - but it may well not.

I am - on the whole - in favour of separating the art from the artist. But in the case of a biographical piece, the two cannot be separated

We should certainly never celebrate Jackson the man again.

I hope it really does make a difference - but the Jackson back catalogue and fan base might be enough to provide some sort of buffer.

The first part is on Channel 4 tonight.

This is such a powerful documentary. The second part really illuminates the long term effects of abuse and how it destroys self-esteem and families. James Safechuck in particular still seems so damaged. I hope they both continue to heal and wish them strength to endure the torrent of hatred coming from Jackson fans.

It's sad how many people I'm seeing on social media writing this documentary off without even watching it. I advise you to watch it and make up your own minds. 

I'm definitely planning on watching it. I have never really belived wholeheartedly in the allegations to the extent they have made out to be, and I do think it is unfair to make a documentary where the person in question cannot defend themselves. I'm really intrigued by this documentary though, and I do wonder if it has the power to change my mind or understanding, as I've heard opinions on both sides with peoples thoughts.

Funnily enough I was in the process of creating a thread on this last night, but I feared there would be arguements and unhealthy discussion, as this is obviously a case that does divide people and get many upset.

Ha whoops. Dropped the N. Not that one, the other one.

I hope people start seeing him as the monster he was. A talented one. But a monster.

I don't now how to feel about this. I recall hearing stories and reports like this several years ago around 2002/2003 of MJ doing these awful things, but then I hear these two men in the centre of this particular MJ scandal have been accused of lying and changing their stories multiple times, and they're only in it for the money.

HOWEVER I'm still keeping an open mind until I view this doc, then I'll decide.

Jackson defended himself multiple times when he was alive including during two criminal investigations. We have heard his side of the story time and time again. There is surely nothing else relevant for him to say, or he would have already said it.

Now is the time to listen to these two people and what they have to say who have kept silent for so many years.

I have watched the documentary. It is not about Michael Jackson. That is a subject that has been explored time and time again, both in relation to the accusations and otherwise. This is about two families, the way powerful people can seduce and manipulate and the long term effects of child sexual abuse.

If you cannot bring yourself to hear both sides of the story, perhaps you should ask yourself what you're afraid of.

One can argue that it is unfair that someone who has died can't defend themselves against allegations (whether true or vexatious) but neither should that prevent people who have allegedly suffered at the hands of someone who has died from speaking out. Don't forget that the majority of accusations about Jimmy Savile came out in force after his death and he has since been recognised as a prolific sexual offender. Of course there may have been some people wanting 15 minutes of fame but that doesn't mean that all accusers are, particularly when the alleged abuser is powerful and/or rich. I'm not stating that the two men in this Jackson case are telling lies or the truth (I haven't seen the documentary) but just because Michael Jackson is dead and can't defend himself doesn't mean that they are accusing him falsely (although they could very well be). The rumours about Michael Jackson have been going around for many, many years to be fair, even before he died. The main difference being that when he was alive, he was able to spend huge amounts of money to make those accusations go away.

That question is addressed in the doc.

You seriously underestimate how hard it is for someone to speak up publicly about sexual abuse in their childhood or even in adulthood, even when it's NOT concerning a major public figure. Even when recognising they were abused they are often left with the feeling they themselves somehow did something wrong. Many will never build up the courage to speak up during their lives.

When speaking publicly of being abused by a celebrity they know full well they will be open to hatred, disbelief and verbal abuse from fans of that person. Given the near-religious fervour of many MJ fans these guys knew what they were facing and spoke up anyway and while you might not accept it that takes courage. It's rarely just "wanting a bit of fame."

Bear in mind a woman who went public with actual taped evidence of Weinstein's abuse of her (before his behavior was publicly known), was savaged by the media. WHEN SHE HAD EVIDENCE.