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Post by SamB (was badoerfan) on Mar 23, 2020 12:21:08 GMT
Thanks for sharing all these! I'm always so intrigued by this part of Miss Saigon, it's evident that they've never really quite got a handle on the character of Ellen or her solo.
For me it's also the first version of Now That I've Seen Her - I really like the doubt that it brings into Ellen's voice compared to Her or Me, which I find a bit too combative.
I do like the exposition that Who Says I'm Hurt adds, but it's perhaps a bit late in the musical to learn all this new stuff about Chris - if we're going to hear these lyrics, it needs to be much earlier, somehow linked to I Still Believe or at least around Bui Doi.
Generally this is a character who doesn't really get enough fleshing out and developing in the show. And even when we do get more details in the different versions of these songs, it's more about Chris than it is about Ellen.
And putting aside the lyrics, I think all of these are genuinely really good musical theatre songs. Really stirring melodies. I love all of them.
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Post by Dave25 on May 30, 2020 15:52:47 GMT
I was wondering who was the original understudy for Kim in this production (which ensemble member).
I know Lea Salonga was Kim and Monique Wilson was her alternate.
She probably became alternate too when Monique Wilson became the main Kim in 1990.
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Post by sf on May 30, 2020 16:40:30 GMT
Jenine Desiderio? I know I saw her play Kim fairly early in the run (I'd already seen Lea Salonga, I saw the show for the first time about three days after it opened.)
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2020 17:12:04 GMT
Just checked my programme from 18th Sept, 2 days before it opened (£18.50 for the upper circle) and although there is no alternate listed because Monique Wilson stepped in when needed, i think sf is correct, because i also have a programme from a few months later and Jenine Desideiro was playing kim at that performance. |
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Post by Dave25 on May 31, 2020 23:31:47 GMT
Thanks guys! I found an old book of the making of Miss Saigon and there were some very interesting pages about the casting process and also about these girls. I have uploaded 5 of the pages as I thought it might be interesting for you to read. It's so cool that you got to see the original production with the first casts. imgur.com/a/Li6HXufPs. The upper photo with the tams is supposed to be at the bottom. The 2nd one is actually where the read starts. |
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Post by anthony40 on Jun 1, 2020 19:02:24 GMT
There's also a documentary about the open-call auditions in Malaysia (including Lea Salonga's audition) to the eventual casting of all of the leads, the read through, the cast meeting for the first time, the sets and the staging and choreography of 'The American Dream'. Also the preliminary rehearsing of the evacuation from Saigon with the helicopter to opening night and the show's accolades.
When the show opened, although I was still in Australia at the time, I was very much aware of the show and when I first came to London with my best friend in 1993 we saw it then.
Now I see A LOT of theatre- musicals in particular but i can honestly say I have NEVER seen people openly sobbing when the curtain fell than I did with that show. I don't think I have since if thruth be told.
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Post by danb on Jun 1, 2020 19:14:46 GMT
They certainly know how to write an emotive if not slightly manipulative overblown tearjerking finale. MS is their best. The pacing and structure of that final scene is breathtaking. Blows the stupid helicopter out of the water.
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Post by SamB (was badoerfan) on Jun 1, 2020 20:20:37 GMT
Just checked my programme from 18th Sept, 2 days before it opened (£18.50 for the upper circle) and although there is no alternate listed because Monique Wilson stepped in when needed, i think sf is correct, because i also have a programme from a few months later and Jenine Desideiro was playing kim at that performance. I think originally it wasn't planned for Monique Wilson to be the alternate in the way we know it now, as it was originally planned for Salonga to do all the shows. When she burned herself out early, that was pretty much the birth of the 'alternate' at we know it. |
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Post by richey on Jun 1, 2020 21:25:11 GMT
They certainly know how to write an emotive if not slightly manipulative overblown tearjerking finale. MS is their best. The pacing and structure of that final scene is breathtaking. Blows the stupid helicopter out of the water. The original finale was far better than the revival version. Far more emotional |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 1, 2020 21:52:19 GMT
I think all 3 versions have something special, but I think I prefer the 2nd version "Little God of My heart". It's very ominous as if something terrible is about to happen without it being too obvious, and she goes through a few stages, determined, hopeful, almost heavenly, then slightly fearful and back to determined. Out of the 3 it gives the most real and intense feeling.
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Post by danb on Jun 2, 2020 6:01:35 GMT
They certainly know how to write an emotive if not slightly manipulative overblown tearjerking finale. MS is their best. The pacing and structure of that final scene is breathtaking. Blows the stupid helicopter out of the water. The original finale was far better than the revival version. Far more emotional Yes, that is what I refer to. I only saw the new version once and on the recording. |
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Post by ptwest on Jun 2, 2020 7:37:32 GMT
The line that gets me every time is "I alone can tell now
What the end must be
They think they'll decide your life
No, it will be me."
I think this is particularly because I love the first act of Miss Saigon, it feels like we are following Kim's journey and her strength when faced with unimaginable choices. The second act in my opinion loses that focus and becomes embroiled in cliched melodrama around the other characters who are much harder to care about whilst Kim becomes little more than the wronged woman character. The less said about the hotel room scene and then the American Dream the better. The finale, and particularly that moment brings back the character we all fell for in act one.
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Post by westlondon on Jun 2, 2020 8:27:47 GMT
The original finale was far better than the revival version. Far more emotional 'The Story Of Miss Saigon' talks about the finale as well - maybe you can blame Steven Spielberg for the original ending being scrapped haha. The ending was perhaps in more obvious need of improvement. 'We haven't quite got it yet,' said Mackintosh. 'We don't allow the audience- or, indeed, ourselves - to get quite all the emotional juice out of the show. "The American Dream is absolutely vital, but somewhere in that area we haven't got the show's tragic equilibrium back on the right scale. It's proving terribly difficult for us to fix'. But something had to be done about it. Steven Spielberg and several others of the more analytical visitors to Drury Lane had identified it as the show's major weakness. |
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Post by distantcousin on Jun 3, 2020 20:06:44 GMT
They certainly know how to write an emotive if not slightly manipulative overblown tearjerking finale. MS is their best. The pacing and structure of that final scene is breathtaking. Blows the stupid helicopter out of the water. The original finale was far better than the revival version. Far more emotional I'm trying to recall how different it is? Not that much? |
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Post by distantcousin on Jun 3, 2020 20:14:56 GMT
The original finale was far better than the revival version. Far more emotional 'The Story Of Miss Saigon'
Is that a book?
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Post by Jon on Jun 3, 2020 21:29:28 GMT
It's surprising that a film adaptation hasn't happened yet. It's one of the few musicals that would translate really well onto screen.
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Post by sf on Jun 3, 2020 21:53:58 GMT
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2020 8:55:04 GMT
It's surprising that a film adaptation hasn't happened yet. It's one of the few musicals that would translate really well onto screen. This has been on my mind for years now. If only they find the right director who embraces the fantasy element of this artform (sung thoughts) and doesn't make it too literal. Most of the lyrics in this show are sung thoughts so for example Last Night Of the world needs to be a dream sequence, not literal in an empty concrete room with a dirty blanket and a tube of lube, but more like video clip, sweltering, romantic, hot, a fan, flowing fabric, because that how it is in their minds. Same goed for this is the hour, including the chorus parts, this film would need a very theatrical, non literal approach. They should definitely use pre-recorded tracks to support the better than life artform. Also, I think Angelica Hale would make a great Kim. |
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Post by David J on Jun 4, 2020 11:37:40 GMT
Cameron Mackintosh did say Miss Saigon will become a film is Les Miserables was successful
Still, in an ideal world we would cast actual musical actors for the film but this is Hollywood we're talking about. You need people like Hugh Jackman and Russel Crowe to bring the crowds in. Perhaps get a musical actress for Kim (someone who actually comes from Vietnam, Hollywood would like that) but otherwise...
Who would be the Engineer or Chris?
I wonder if making a Miss Saigon film is awkward for Hollywood since China is the second biggest movie market and Hollywood has been cosying up to them altering their movies and so on
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Post by fiyero on Jun 4, 2020 17:19:18 GMT
Who would be the Engineer or Chris? Surely James Corden must be up for one of them? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 17:28:09 GMT
I agree with everything Dave25 says on how this should be made. That said, Miss Saigon is my 2nd fave musical of all time, but I am at the point with movie musicals where I really in fact hope they don't bother with this. They just can't help snubbing quality for (perceived) box office. And movie musicals of the sung through stuff, other than Evita, have all been very disappointing. Love the DVD of the stage version. My only fantasy is that there was one of the 1989 version as well! |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 4, 2020 22:06:54 GMT
Dom, I could say the same about your post!
It could be so great in the right hands but indeed, maybe it's better to leave it a fantasy because they will slaughter it.
I also loved the Evita film, it's one of the only musicalfilms that works. The director really understood the fantasy element of this artform on screen and understood the essence of the "better than life" and "non-literal" approach, there are so many good examples of that in this film. The editing and the way they used the music as a voiceover at times and how they have woven it into the story is great.
I also loved the dvd of the stage version of MS, but every time I watch it I long for the 1989 cast as they were so much more natural and filmic. I really wish they had filmed that one with Lea, or at least with someone like Ma-Anne Dionisio as Kim.
So what is your favorite musical? Phantom?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 14:22:56 GMT
Dom, I could say the same about your post! It could be so great in the right hands but indeed, maybe it's better to leave it a fantasy because they will slaughter it. I also loved the Evita film, it's one of the only musicalfilms that works. The director really understood the fantasy element of this artform on screen and understood the essence of the "better than life" and "non-literal" approach, there are so many good examples of that in this film. The editing and the way they used the music as a voiceover at times and how they have woven it into the story is great. I also loved the dvd of the stage version of MS, but every time I watch it I long for the 1989 cast as they were so much more natural and filmic. I really wish they had filmed that one with Lea, or at least with someone like Ma-Anne Dionisio as Kim. So what is your favorite musical? Phantom? Yes you are quite right, Evita really was excellent. Fabulous orchestrations and a pre-recorded score along with some epic filming - it looked and sounded wonderful. Musicals are written in a certain way for a reason and messing around with scores and orchestrations for films is I think a massive mistake. Madonna was also incredibly underrated in this - I thought it was a wonderful performance. I similarly long for a video of the original Drury Line Miss Saigon. That would be truly wonderful. I like the new version very much but it will never rival the insanely good original. Haha, no not Phantom, that's prob down below Saigon, Les Mis, Cats, Aspects, Evita, Sunset in fact.... Starlight Express! On the face of it very different from Miss Saigon. But actually much in common for me. Sung through, epic, spectacular, truly immersive (for me) and, and I know people find this odd, a fantastic story which I completely engage with! |
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Post by sprampster on Jun 5, 2020 17:46:36 GMT
Actually am pretty sure that there was a pro recording done of the final cast of miss Saigon at drury Lane for posterity by Cameron just putting that Out there would be great if it was released
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Post by danb on Jun 5, 2020 18:13:28 GMT
Loved the ‘Evita’ movie. That explosion of sound in ‘Requiem for Evita’ is magnificent and took my breath away in the Odeon West End. I really have no idea where this live vocal nonsense came from. Quality please not half baked worthiness.
‘Miss Saigon’ and it’s setting are so filmic that the spectacle alone would surely win Oscars, whoever played Kim would be a shoo-in for Best Actress. Hell, make sure Johns’ Bui Doi is a knockout and he could have best supporting actor.
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