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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 14, 2019 14:18:37 GMT
All this talk of 'rushing towards death' makes me very confused. The Rumble is the where we see two characters killed off in a brutal gang fight. So two out of the three deaths in the show have already happened before the numbers that he has said he is cutting. Yes, Tony has not yet been shot by Chino - but as deaths in drama goes, that is not one of the most dramatic (and not because I Feel Pretty and the Nightmare Ballet sequence has come before it)
So unless he is planning on changing the ending so that Maria ends her life, the 'rush towards death' is over, to my mind, by the end of The Rumble (or Act 1 if you prefer)
As justifications go for significant cuts, I do find it particularly unconvincing.
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 14, 2019 18:22:24 GMT
All this talk of 'rushing towards death' makes me very confused. The Rumble is the where we see two characters killed off in a brutal gang fight. So two out of the three deaths in the show have already happened before the numbers that he has said he is cutting. Yes, Tony has not yet been shot by Chino - but as deaths in drama goes, that is not one of the most dramatic (and not because I Feel Pretty and the Nightmare Ballet sequence has come before it) So unless he is planning on changing the ending so that Maria ends her life, the 'rush towards death' is over, to my mind, by the end of The Rumble (or Act 1 if you prefer) As justifications go for significant cuts, I do find it particularly unconvincing. Apparently it is going to be a one 90 minute act, therefore that is well over an hour of stuff he is cutting. I kind of get why he is doing it as by losing a lot of the love story/female character beats it makes the show more about racism/xenophobia and toxic masculinity which I think makes it more relevant for modern times in America. It has an extended 2 month preview period, I am sure the show will go through many incarnations before we see his final vision for the piece. I guess you either choose to be a part of it or not and it's not like you're not getting advance warning that it's going to be something totally new and a different take on the piece. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 14, 2019 18:28:38 GMT
For me, there is a question as to how much you change about a piece of theatre before it ceases to be the one you started with.
Cutting 40% of this musical sounds to me as to be risking going too far from the show created by Bernstein and his colleagues for it to remain West Side Story.
Yes, they are being relatively upfront about the changes. But there are still many theatregoers who are in for a huge shock.
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 14, 2019 21:54:06 GMT
For me, there is a question as to how much you change about a piece of theatre before it ceases to be the one you started with. Cutting 40% of this musical sounds to me as to be risking going too far from the show created by Bernstein and his colleagues for it to remain West Side Story. Yes, they are being relatively upfront about the changes. But there are still many theatregoers who are in for a huge shock. It says 'based on a conception by' at the top of all the promotional material. You're buying a ticket for Ivo Van Hove's WSS not Bernstein's/Robbins... I don't think he's cutting that much music. He has cut one song and one ballet and lets face it how many 'dance-offs' does one show need...there are plenty of them left. It's going to be mostly sung/danced through, the cuts will be mostly dialogue. I think if he comes up with something truly original and amazing, people won't care what's missing. It's kinda like going to a concert and loving it, but then on the way out bitching and moaning because they didn't play your favourite songs. If something is good it's good end of. |
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Post by 49thand8th on Nov 14, 2019 22:34:37 GMT
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 15, 2019 9:46:20 GMT
For me, there is a question as to how much you change about a piece of theatre before it ceases to be the one you started with. It says 'based on a conception by' at the top of all the promotional material. You're buying a ticket for Ivo Van Hove's WSS not Bernstein's/Robbins... And therein lies the - shall we say - philosophical issue at the heart of this Clearly IVH believes he has a story to tell and is using the work of Bernstein, Robbins and Sondheim to do that. And, assuming he has the permission of all the relevant rights holders (which he clearly does otherwise the project wouldn't be going ahead), then he has every right to do so. But is it still West Side Story? I am reminded of what happened when Bernstein's On The Town was made into a film. Most of Bernstein's music was dropped and replaced by songs by another composer. To my mind, the producers of the film were using the title but not respecting the original work. It is understandable that Bernstein then boycotted the film. Compare and contrast to what is happening with the Spielberg remake of the WSS film. He is keeping the musical score largely intact (with some re-orchestration) and the screenplay is more closely related to the original book from the stage version. Yes, there are some changes - but it is very much the work as we know it but given a refresh. One of IVH's most successful productions is his A View from the Bridge. Again he played it through without an interval - but it still came it at 2 hours - which is pretty much the length of a traditional production minus the interval. Yes, he changed the aesthetic. But he did not take out significant chunks of the text. Yes, we have to wait to see exactly what he has done to WSS before final judgements can be formed. And I am fully on board with the idea of change - the restrictions placed on past productions of WSS insisting on retaining the original choreography have gone on far too long. (The Samuel Beckett estate should similarly stop restricting directors tackling Godot etc) But how much change can be imposed on a piece of musical theatre before it ceases to be the original? I was once in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar where the director, in his infinite wisdom, decided to move 'Superstar' from the end of the show and put it at the beginning (and took it away from Judas - giving it to one of the other disciples) - it was a woeful decision and if the RUG had heard about it, they would have almost certainly pulled the rights. All of the score was performed - but not in the right order. And the show was weaker as a result. I suspect this production of WSS is going to end up in the Marmite category. Loved by some. Hated by others. The original full text version will no doubt survive and continue to be enjoyed by future generations. But I have this niggle that won't go away - why take on directing a piece that you feel needs such radical reworking? If you don't believe in the source material, find something else - or commission a new script/score. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 17:07:59 GMT
Maybe he didn't feel WSS "needs" radical working, but instead saw how the piece might be presented in another form, one that might illuminate the story in new and different ways for audiences.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2019 17:54:13 GMT
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Post by 49thand8th on Nov 15, 2019 19:42:13 GMT
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 16, 2019 18:32:46 GMT
Oh no, not here too...
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Post by Nicholas on Nov 17, 2019 12:44:30 GMT
I just don’t see why van Hove needs to have a crack at this. AFter all, we’ve already had the definitive European West Side Story…
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 17, 2019 17:05:26 GMT
I just don’t see why van Hove needs to have a crack at this. AFter all, we’ve already had the definitive European West Side Story…
We may laugh but the stylised wigs and costumes is a neat way of getting around any casting issues. Instead of faithful casting you go wild with the colourblind concept |
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Post by intoanewlife on Nov 18, 2019 22:17:42 GMT
I just don’t see why van Hove needs to have a crack at this. AFter all, we’ve already had the definitive European West Side Story…
Ummmm wtf did I just watch? |
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Post by raider80 on Nov 19, 2019 11:54:31 GMT
I just don’t see why van Hove needs to have a crack at this. AFter all, we’ve already had the definitive European West Side Story…
Now that is high art with a capital H. |
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Post by viserys on Nov 20, 2019 8:13:46 GMT
Now that is high art with a capital H. No, this is precisely the reason why German theatre lovers flock to London in droves  |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Nov 20, 2019 8:43:28 GMT
Now that is high art with a capital H. No, this is precisely the reason why German theatre lovers flock to London in droves I couldn't agree more Viserys!  |
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Post by Nicholas on Nov 25, 2019 13:53:57 GMT
Now that is high art with a capital H. No, this is precisely the reason why German theatre lovers flock to London in droves Sure, in London there's, you know, some of the best theatre in the world, but you get daily access to theatre as, um, 'daring' and 'artsy' as this, and honestly I’m a wee bit jealous. If they revive this I'm bloody flocking to Germany. We may laugh but the stylised wigs and costumes is a neat way of getting around any casting issues. Instead of faithful casting you go wild with the colourblind concept In theory that’s an interesting approach. In practice, they seem to have ended up with…
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Post by Fleance on Dec 20, 2019 5:01:32 GMT
Wonderful, deeply moving production, directed by Ivo van Hove. May upset the purists, though. It has a long preview period: two months. What I saw will probably change somewhat, so an excuse to see it again. And yes, there are projections, and they are brilliant.  |
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Post by ali973 on Dec 25, 2019 16:14:45 GMT
I saw this last week before Isaac's accident.
I was extremely supportive of a new modern take on WSS, including new choreography. We've seen the (brilliant) Robbins' choreography 700 times, and for all we know there are probably 60 recreations of his original choreography in America, and probably 10 across the world happening right now.
I've only seen Lazarus and All About Eve as far as Ivo's work is concerned. I was mesmerized by the camera work in All About Eve, though I listened closely to how people have criticized his camera work as a "trick" to hide otherwise weak direction. WSS utilizes the same camera work, be it, much less than All About Eve. I also recently saw "A History of Violence" at St. Ann's Warehouse, which is somewhat similar in using cell phone/live filming while telling the story. If you've seen it before, it might not be as impressive. If this is your first time, it possibly could be.
In an interview, Ivo says that he's made the cuts and made the play into one act to show how fast things are unraveling, and how the characters are racing against time. That's a fine artistic choice, but I found that his pace, technique and overall aesthetic was at odds with the book. And although the book is not dated and some lines land and land well, it's still written at such a pace that is much slower than the tempo of the movement on stage.
The new choreography seems uncertain. It only picks up with the big production numbers, mainly at the gym. America is now based on the film version with boys vs girls, and I like how it works.
The two leads are good. In this version, it's mostly Tony's story, and Isaac Powell might not sing the score beautifully, but he has reinvented Tony from the ground up. He finally makes sense as a reformed ex-gang member who wants a new beginning. Shereen Pimentel is feisty, flirty and believable as a strong millennial who has an opinion.
Both gangs now are multi-racial and mixed. What was once a story about racism is now a story of toxic masculinity. Overall a very polished preview. The production has a lot of style and swag, but with very little emotions. Technically, they've figured it out and don't need to worry about the mechanics of the show, but there's still some work to be done on how to connect to the audience. Considering how square and touristy the audience is, I'm not sure that this WSS belongs in a commercial Broadway house. It would fare much better somewhere in Brooklyn, or even at an opera house that wants diversify its programming and bring in a younger audience.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 30, 2019 18:19:54 GMT
Thanks for the great review.
Interesting how race is sidelined for toxic / alpha male concept. How do the lines about ethnicity go down, Especially in the song America?
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 2:08:50 GMT
Who knows what its staying power will be, but right now it is selling very, very well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 23:32:16 GMT
Not sure if you can access it outside the US, but excellent CBS 60 Minutes feature aired this past Sunday that explored the development and tone of the show. Certainly increased my enthusiasm to see it in a few weeks. www.cbsnews.com/news/west-side-story-broadway-behind-scenes-60-minutes-2020-02-16/ In an "extra" segment, Sondheim make s a compelling case for why a new interpretation is appropriate and welcome. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 18, 2020 12:55:50 GMT
Yes we can access that. It looks brilliant, wish I could see it. what seems odd is the decision to leave in the toned down language eg “mother blubbin’ street” which sounds incongruous and just wrong in that very modern setting. It seems pretty much everything else was up for being changed at and in the Sondheim clip he says he would have used profanity had he been allowed to. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 16:55:25 GMT
Interesting background story: www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/20/west-side-story-returns-broadway-it-has-lot-say-about-race-america/"In this way, van Hove knowingly or not signals that “West Side Story” has always been about the ways that race and identity are constantly changing and reformulating themselves in America. The show’s original creators grappled with this concept as they were devising their 1950s opus and eschewed religious tensions for racial ones. Just as the original 1957 production was meant to be a window into the racial politics of the day, so too does this new “West Side Story” speak to contemporary audiences, highlighting the ways in which race, ethnicity and identity, while always changing, are also ever present in the experiment that is America." |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Feb 21, 2020 1:27:15 GMT
Last night was opening night and the general reception has been mixed/lukewarm. The New York Times seems mixed-to-negative, while more positive reviews come from The Times, Rolling Stones, the Guardian, the Los Angeles Times, and the enthusiastic New York Post. |
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