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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 12:04:48 GMT
I think the key for me is that as good as Rachel is - or any west end performer is - for someone to be important to someone, you have to 'know' them. Actors (including musical performers) are conduits that present someone else's ideas, opinions and commentary on the world. An actor's work has nothing to do with them as an individual - they are the face of the character. Therefore you can't know them and as such, I fail to see how that relationship develops to a stage where the actor is important to their fans. But aren't fans trying to get to 'know' these performers better by doing the very thing you're criticising them for? In any case, I think it's unfair to suggest that an actor can never put their own personality into a role they play. Surely the reason people feel connected to an actor is because they can see the actor has connected to the material. If you're connected to that same material, there's your connection to the actor. On this thread alone, we've compared actors who phone in a performance with those who absolutely embody the character. And again on this thread, people get incredibly excited for cast change because they want to see a new take on an old character. Or because they love a particular performer's take on that character and she's coming back to play it again. Just as Michael is avoiding Wicked at the moment because he doesn't like Rachel's portrayal, so I am coming back to a show that I swore I was done with, because I don't just love Wicked or the character of Elphaba -I love Rachel's portrayal of Elphaba. But I'm not going to tell Michael his opinion is more important than mine. It's all about perspective. In fact, I'd say that the overarching message of Wicked itself is that everything is about perspective. People can look at things in different ways. Plus many of those actors do work outside of the shows in which they perform. Rachel's done multiple concerts where she sings a wide range of songs, dressed as herself without green facepaint on. If you've ever been to one of those, you'll also know that she chats an awful lot in between songs. That gives people the chance to get to know her personally. And I have to say the show she did at the St James after launching her album is still one of the best nights I've ever had. I'm sure other people would have enjoyed a Michael Jackson/Madonna/Beyonce gig more. Others still may prefer a different musical theatre performer. I went to a Cynthia Erivo gig last year where everyone was absolutely raving about her afterwards. I think she has an amazing voice but I personally didn't connect with her the way I do with Rachel. But I could totally see how other people did. It's still just a matter of perspective. I almost certainly wouldn't come under your definition of superfan. I don't hang out at stage door. I don't act as if I'm friends with the cast. I don't run a fan account. I'm on under 20 visits to Wicked and don't intend to go above that. Yet my own friends would probably say I'm completely obsessed. I'm into double figures. I see almost everything Rachel is in. I've been out to Broadway to see her twice in the last two years. By many people's standards, that's probably quite tame. By others, it's bonkers. Perspective.Completely agree. I am still on under 20 performances of Wicked and my family thjnk I'm obsessed. But as you say, I don't hang around stage door, and if I do, it is only once a cast change and thats it. I domt try to be best friends, I don't even have twitter! Haha. I am tame by some standard of fan, but many may not think so! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 12:24:33 GMT
Anyway, this could go on and on. Let's get back to Oz - when do we think movie casting will be determined and announced? I'm thinking somewhere in 2018. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 12:26:20 GMT
Well of course it's all opinion, just like your comments are all opinion too  I think the key for me is that as good as Rachel is - or any west end performer is - for someone to be important to someone, you have to 'know' them. Actors (including musical performers) are conduits that present someone else's ideas, opinions and commentary on the world. An actor's work has nothing to do with them as an individual - they are the face of the character. Therefore you can't know them and as such, I fail to see how that relationship develops to a stage where the actor is important to their fans. On the flip side, popstars need to have that personal connection with each member of their audience. A popstar (the best at least) sell a part of themselves through their work and build a connection through their lyrics, imagery, performance, videos and interviews. Music is a very personal affair and that personalisation leads to your audience feeling like they 'know' you. That's the difference for me anyway. Of course my comments are all opinion - hence my use of the phrase "I think". I disagree entirely with your distinction though, I don't think such a binary divide exists at all. Acting is as much a personal choice as singing is, and I have to admit I don't see how acting doesn't require the actor to establish a personal connection with the audience, as good acting is all about drawing the audience into the work they are viewing, which really doesn't make it that much different from a concert, and is arguably even more complex and demanding given plays and musicals actually have a story, unlike most concerts. Just because the actor is not (usually, but of course not exclusively) performing their own work doesn't mean they're not making a personal choice when performing (same as a singer, who of course is often not performing their own songs!). There is no one correct way to perform any piece of literary or musical work, there is always a degree of interpretation and performance choice. That may be honed in the rehearsal room with a director and sometimes the author, but that is no different to a performer honing their tour programme in a rehearsal room before taking it on the road. You're making a distinction that I just can't see exists. |
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Post by CBP1 on Oct 9, 2016 13:26:34 GMT
An actor should not add their own personality to a role. They perform based on their interpretation of the work, as agreed with the director. Different actors have different relationships with the characters they play, but when the script is the same, the direction is the same, the staging is the same and the songs and notes are the same, they are limited in what they can actually do with the role. It's not the actors personality, but the personality they believe the character requires - but this has to have approval because it is not their decision. The irony being of course I think Rachel is one of the best thing to have happened to Wicked, and the producers appear to agree based on her long term involvement with the show. She is absolutely the best Elphaba I've seen, but Rachel isn't the one I connect with - I connect and care about Elphaba. For me, that's is where the perspective is needed and the lines within the Wicked fandom get blurred - connecting with the character doesn't mean you're connecting with the performer - the performer has no ownership over the character at all. Anyway, this could go on and on. Let's get back to Oz - when do we think movie casting will be determined and announced? (oh, and if we're keeping score, I'm almost at the 30 visit stages. Not a bad average yearly visit me thinks). Of course this could go on and on. Especially if you keep dismissing other people's opinions as 'just opinion' whilst simultaneously trying to lecture them on what their opinion ought to be. You're using perspective in a different way to the rest of us i.e. telling us that we need perspective. Whereas we are saying that people can have different perspectives. Again, Wicked is all about seeing things another way. I don't think this debate is about Rachel at all. It just so happens that she is my favourite actor and the obvious example to discuss here. I would have used the same example even if we had been having this debate in a totally different thread. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't see any difference between connecting with an actor and with a pop singer. Or between any other types of artist, whether they are performing their own work or that written by another. If you connect with the character rather than the actor, fine. But don't try to tell other people that that its the way they should connect. You can connect with a piece on different levels. The lines are naturally blurred. A performer must be able to add something to the writing. Otherwise, what's the point in cover versions of songs/revivals of musicals/cast changes? I have a huge amount of respect for Stephen Schwartz, and I can appreciate what he has written. Separately, I love Rachel's portrayal of that writing. As you say, the actor decides how they believe the character should act. Yes they may be constrained by what a director allows, but it's still their interpretation. Art is subjective. We take from it what we choose. I am under no illusion that the words coming out of Rachel's mouth are entirely her own. But equally I believe that when she says/sings them, she means it. That allows me to connect with her, not just the character. Ultimately I find it easier to connect with the human standing in front of me than the imaginary person they are embodying at that moment. That's why when Rachel leaves Wicked I won't be going back. But I will certainly be going to see her in whatever she next does. How does that mean my perspective is skewed? |
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Post by bengal73 on Oct 9, 2016 18:47:35 GMT
Someone said on here following cast change is July some time
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Post by Michael on Oct 9, 2016 18:49:15 GMT
Do we know how long Willemijn is back for, when she takes back over again? Best guess is 22nd July, but nothing officially announced yet: I believe that 22nd July 2017 will be the last show for Willemijn (if she isn't staying), and for whoever else chooses to leave, Suzie and Oliver presumably. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 20:10:08 GMT
Do we know how long Willemijn is back for, when she takes back over again? Best guess is 22nd July, but nothing officially announced yet: I believe that 22nd July 2017 will be the last show for Willemijn (if she isn't staying), and for whoever else chooses to leave, Suzie and Oliver presumably. I think Suzie might stay a bit longer. |
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Post by Michael on Oct 9, 2016 20:31:38 GMT
And no talk of who comes after that? I hope they find someone new...most likely they'll cast someone who knows the part inside out. Seriously, there's so much talent out there - give these ladies a chance. I for one would give an arm and a leg to see Rachel John go green. |
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Post by bengal73 on Oct 9, 2016 21:00:50 GMT
And no talk of who comes after that? I hope they find someone new...most likely they'll cast someone who knows the part inside out. Seriously, there's so much talent out there - give these ladies a chance. I for one would give an arm and a leg to see Rachel John go green. I second that |
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Post by Michael on Oct 9, 2016 21:14:47 GMT
The thing is Elphaba is surely the one role everyone wants, so you'd think the producers would have their pick of the best! Surely it's been years since they auditioned for the part? I don't get it either. If they wanted to, they could get a new lead and standby Elphaba for every single contract. I mean, even I can easily come up with ten ladies who are more than qualified. But instead, they keep on extending contracts and bringing former cast members back. |
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Post by daniel on Oct 9, 2016 21:27:50 GMT
Rachel John would be an incredible Elphaba. Her, and others, have auditioned multiple times and it's so frustrating that the talent is there but producers just aren't interested. I guess in their eyes it's the safe option. Someone who knows the show, who has proven themselves, rather than taking the gamble and going for someone new. I remain hopeful though that we'll one day see Rachel John go green. After all, Kerry and Rachel Tucker both played Meatloaf in WWRY (and Emma Hatton understudied it did she not?) so hopefully we'll see the pattern continue...
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Post by Michael on Oct 9, 2016 21:33:35 GMT
I mean, even I can easily come up with ten ladies who are more than qualified. After thinking about it for a bit: Rachel John, Rachael Wooding, Sabrina Aloueche, Lauren Varnham, Cynthia Erivo, Sam Barks, Danielle Hope, Lauren Samuels, Rebecca Trehearn (?), Natalie Dew (maybe as s/b?), Faye Brookes (?), Amanda Coutts The producer's and/or casting director's list must be even longer... |
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Post by tsxmitw on Oct 9, 2016 22:03:09 GMT
I've always thought Julie Atherton would make a good Elphaba. Sabrina Aloueche would be good too, as would Cynthia Erivo (though she'd never do it).
But we all know they'll bring Emma Hatton back come cast change.
I suppose the one redeeming quality is that the producers do have quite a good record of keeping the standbys fresh and interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 23:40:42 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purposes or anything like that, I just want to see her do it!  |
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Post by daniel on Oct 9, 2016 23:46:13 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purproses or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! I'd love to see her in the role and I think she'd actually do a good job of it, she's certainly got the voice for it...but can you imagine what Stage Door would be like?! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 0:08:22 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purproses or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! I'd love to see her in the role and I think she'd actually do a good job of it, she's certainly got the voice for it...but can you imagine what Stage Door would be like?! This would too be my thought... I mean Wicked fans are one thing, but added with Carrie's fans, it would turn the stage door would be a tad manic for a year or so! But god I wanna see her play that role one day! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 2:16:50 GMT
If Carrie played the role I wouldn't see the show during her run. I can't stand her. Ugh she's awful. Good night guys, I'm so drunk. I predict a horrible hangover tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 2:17:18 GMT
I love you all.
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Post by Michael on Oct 10, 2016 3:38:25 GMT
I've always thought Julie Atherton would make a good Elphaba. I'd love Julie Atherton to give it a go, but I never got the impresssion she could sing the end of Defying Gravity. I always thought Julie would be a good Glinda, but Elphaba she ain't. But that ship has sailed - she's too old now. |
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Post by Michael on Oct 10, 2016 3:40:01 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purposes or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! No. Just no. |
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Post by johartuk on Oct 10, 2016 9:08:10 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purposes or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! I think she'd make a better Glinda. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 9:20:22 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purposes or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! The only reason I would ever want her to play the role would be so that I could save money by not seeing the show! Sorry, don't rate her at all, and she is the reason why I despair at the invention of social media sometimes! |
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Post by tr252 on Oct 10, 2016 10:34:48 GMT
I am happily gonna put forward the suggestion, I want to see Carrie Hope Fletcher play the role. And not for fangirl purposes or anything like that, I just want to see her do it! The only reason I would ever want her to play the role would be so that I could save money by not seeing the show! Sorry, don't rate her at all, and she is the reason why I despair at the invention of social media sometimes! I agree. It's always kicking off on her Twitter - which I admit is hilarious to watch as she over reacts to everything and is so passive aggressive to anybody who disagrees with her. I'm not sure she has the vocal strength for Elphaba 8 times a week tbh. |
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Post by shady23 on Oct 10, 2016 15:58:32 GMT
Wicked would love her to go in the show.
They'd love her brother and his wife to tweet about and vlog about it too.
I am positive it will happen at some point. Whether she is good or not it will not matter as her fans will all be "omg. Best Elphaba ever" and it will make the Kerry Ellis days look tame by comparison.
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Post by shady23 on Oct 10, 2016 16:00:51 GMT
One thing that bugs me about the Wicked super fans is there seems to be a need to have a twitter "team" for every cast member. ...sometimes even before said cast member had their first performance. And it isn't a prerequisite for the "team" to have actually seen their cast member on stage either. Completely odd. Well, nobody else is bagysing the page of Team Fifth Cover Midwife! It's mine. I am already planning the design of her leaving scrapbook! |
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