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Post by ali973 on Jul 17, 2017 4:22:38 GMT
I find nothing as thrilling as a bunch of characters singing over each other and independently expressing exactly what's going on in their mind. It has to be one of my favorite musical theatre devices, normally done as an Act I finale to wrap things up while ticking the box on so many characters sub-plots.
Here's a list of my favorite. Curious what yours may be..
*Les Miserables (the mother of all counterpoint Act I Finales): One Day More
*Les Miserables: Confrontation
*Kiss of the Spiderwpman: Anything For Him
*Hamilton: Non-Stop
*Book of Mormon: Man Up
*Great Comet: Letters (kind of)
*West Side Story: America
*Little Night Music: A Weekend in the Country
*Chess: Model of Decorum and Tranquility
..any more?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 17, 2017 6:43:07 GMT
Is America a counterpoint though? They're not singing different lyrics at the same time are they? Even if they are it's nowhere near as thrilling as the bit where they reprise Tonight with Tony, Maria and the two gangs all singing about what's going to happen tonight. I think that's the best one I've heard.
The bit in Les Mis where Cosette, Marius and Eponine all sing about being in love is quite good, but not the movie version with Amanda Siegfried trilling away like a demented budgie.
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19,780 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 17, 2017 6:46:11 GMT
Oh! Prima Donna from POTO. Love that one, especially the film version with Minnie Driver camping it up (I know she wasn't singing)
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Post by danb on Jul 17, 2017 7:22:04 GMT
'Finale B' from Rent for me. It gets me caught up in so many waves of feeling and memories; of telling myself to soak up every last second now, as I might not see it again...my favourite MT song full stop.
And 'One Day More' obvio!
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Jul 17, 2017 7:38:32 GMT
Is America a counterpoint though? They're not singing different lyrics at the same time are they? Even if they are it's nowhere near as thrilling as the bit where they reprise Tonight with Tony, Maria and the two gangs all singing about what's going to happen tonight. I think that's the best one I've heard. Sorry, I totally meant to say "Tonight"! |
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Post by crabtree on Jul 17, 2017 9:17:27 GMT
Well I will bring in Gilbert and Sullivan here with the trio, I am so Proud, from The Mikado. And the great moment in Kander and ebb's Curtains when they finally get the various songs together all at once.
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Post by crabtree on Jul 17, 2017 9:18:56 GMT
And if we venture into Grand Opera the quartet from Rigoletto is pretty darn special.
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 17, 2017 9:31:12 GMT
Oh! Prima Donna from POTO. Love that one, especially the film version with Minnie Driver camping it up (I know she wasn't singing) What movie version? There is no movie version and never was. |
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Post by chrismis on Jul 17, 2017 9:38:41 GMT
I find nothing as thrilling as a bunch of characters singing over each other and independently expressing exactly what's going on in their mind. It has to be one of my favorite musical theatre devices, normally done as an Act I finale to wrap things up while ticking the box on so many characters sub-plots. Here's a list of my favorite. Curious what yours may be.. *Les Miserables (the mother of all counterpoint Act I Finales): One Day More *Les Miserables: Confrontation *Kiss of the Spiderwpman: Anything For Him *Hamilton: Non-Stop *Book of Mormon: Man Up *Great Comet: Letters (kind of) *West Side Story: America *Little Night Music: A Weekend in the Country *Chess: Model of Decorum and Tranquility ..any more? On a much smaller scale but my personal favourite-The Proposal from Titanic. Always find it so incredibly moving. Just take a look at the YouTube video of the Broadway Revival Cast Rehearsal. Three or four of the cast are reduced to tears! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 10:27:33 GMT
+1 on Prima Donna.
Also The Final Lair of Phantom has a wonderful minute of 'Past the Point...' reprising in counterpoint which I absolutely love.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 10:29:08 GMT
Oh! Prima Donna from POTO. Love that one, especially the film version with Minnie Driver camping it up (I know she wasn't singing) What movie version? There is no movie version and never was. There most definitely was a movie version of Phantom, from 2004. And it was awful. |
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Post by theatremadness on Jul 17, 2017 10:36:53 GMT
What movie version? There is no movie version and never was. There most definitely was a movie version of Phantom, from 2004. And it was awful. Oo I've been looking for an excuse to use this meme....in jest of course, no offence meant   |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 17, 2017 10:46:21 GMT
I agree about the Quintet from West Side Story - one of the great moments in all music.
Irving Berlin was a genius at this type of thing, he could do it so effortlessly and, dare I say, unpretentiously. Examples:
You're Just in Love (Call me Madam)
Play a Simple Melody (Watch your Step)
Opera is where counterpoint really comes into it's own, although, in some instances, the composers would have not used that term.
I agree the Quartet from Rigoletto is superb but also:
The trio near end of Rosenkavalier
The quintet in Meistersingers
The canon in Fidelio
But the supreme genius at this is Mozart. It's all over the place in his mature operas with too many great examples to quote in Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi, and Flute. No one else quite comes up to his level expressing different emotional states simultaneously, with such effortlessly beautiful music.
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Post by PhantomNcl on Jul 17, 2017 11:25:27 GMT
A couple of more obscure ones that I like are:
'The Day Has Come' from Martin Guerre
'Dear Old Friend' (AKA 'Prima Donna Lite') from Love Never Dies
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Post by adrianics on Jul 17, 2017 11:46:04 GMT
The title song from Legally Blonde and If I Could from The Hired Man for me.
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Post by jgblunners on Jul 17, 2017 12:08:47 GMT
I absolutely love the counterpoint in Notes 1/Prima Donna. I played Andre in a University production last year and that whole sequence was such a b*tch to learn, but also the most satisfying part of the show when it all came together. One of my favourite musical moments in POTO is the climax of Notes 1, where all the counterpoint resolves and the orchestra erupts into the melody of Prima Donna. Brilliant stuff.
I agree with One Day More (obviously) and keeping on the Boublil/Schoenberg theme, I'd also mention the end of Kim and Ellen's duet I Still Believe in Miss Saigon. I also like the moments of counterpoint in One Day, the Act One finale from Groundhog Day.
I'm now rehearsing for a production of Candide and I'm loving the use of counterpoint in Life is Happiness Unending and the Quartet Finale.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 13:37:46 GMT
There's lots of gorgeous counterpoint in The Secret Garden, especially during The Quartet in Act 2.
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Post by notmymuse on Jul 17, 2017 13:45:06 GMT
Great thread. Totally agree. There's something just so intense and moving about a good bit of counterpoint! Quintet from West Side Story probably wins for me, but I remember sitting in a theatre hearing one in Seven Brides years ago (no idea of the song?) and also I'm sure Chess also?
Am off to going and listen to my Rebecca Caine bootleg from Phantom now to hear a good bit of POTO now I've been reminded of it.
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Post by anita on Jul 17, 2017 13:48:37 GMT
Is "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste" in "Whistle down the Wind" counterpoint?
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Post by notmymuse on Jul 17, 2017 16:29:44 GMT
Is "A kiss is a terrible thing to waste" in "Whistle down the Wind" counterpoint? Yep, I'd say so. 3 characters singing their hearts out about their own feelings and situation. I forgot this one. I've been thinking about this all day as I'd never noticed how this is one of my favourite things about musicals. The Hunchback of Notre Dame has a lovely example (and is great in general), and was also thinking about Shrek - I think this happens twice, with the 3 Fionas and then again with another song. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 16:30:18 GMT
There most definitely was a movie version of Phantom, from 2004. And it was awful. Oo I've been looking for an excuse to use this meme....in jest of course, no offence meant Did wonder that as I posted, but continued regardless. Any chance to vocalise my dislike of the movie I'll take. |
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Post by tmesis on Jul 17, 2017 17:31:26 GMT
Another one -
'I Could have Danced all Night' from My Fair Lady - the chorus provides a delicious counterpoint to the soaring main tune in the second verse.
It's a really classy song all round - a stonking tune that sits just perfectly in the context of the musical and elevates the show to a higher emotional level.
It's definitely in my top ten songs from a musical and another gem from the undercelebrated Loewe.
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Post by tmesis on Jul 17, 2017 17:33:54 GMT
'Be back soon' from Oliver is quite clever too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 18:05:21 GMT
A couple of more obscure ones that I like are: 'The Day Has Come' from Martin Guerre 'Dear Old Friend' (AKA 'Prima Donna Lite') from Love Never Dies I find Dear Old Friend a bit skatty, Devil Take the Hindmost is a better use of counterpoint in my opinion. |
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Post by SamB (was badoerfan) on Jul 17, 2017 20:14:45 GMT
I agree with One Day More (obviously) and keeping on the Boublil/Schoenberg theme, I'd also mention the end of Kim and Ellen's duet I Still Believe in Miss Saigon. Yes! Possibly one of the best songs in all of musical theatre. |
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