Game of Thrones

I have to admit, it's been a long time since I read the last book (it takes so blimmin' long for GRRM to write them!).
But book-Cersei as we left her was very different from show-Cersei, so I have a hard time seeing her in the position the show has her in, and I was thoroughly tired of the political stuff (and most of the characters, who really are horrible. Everyone on the show is more sympathetic than in the book just because they're played by real human beings.).

It was only the mythology that was keeping my interest piqued - there's a whole lot more world-building in the books, it feels like a much bigger world with a lot more history and intrigue going on. I have suspected for some time that GRRM has painted himself into a corner and doesn't actually know where he is going, though.

Did anyone here read the Wheel of Time books? That had similar problems with its ending - it had gone on so long and gotten so complicated that actually paying it all off in a satisfying way became impossible.

Just laughably bad and insulting to the audience's intelligence. The white walkers had been setup as the existential threat from the very first episode and they go out in comical fashion. All the heroic characters throughout who have taken this threat very seriously look stupid while Cersei who is supposed to be the villain is proved right.

No explanation as to why the Night King risked his only way of losing to go after Bran when he had the battle won easily. Bran wasn't doing anything in the battle to make him worth targeting. Even if he is special they could just wait until everyone else is dead rather than putting their one huge weak spot in the firing line. The longer the battle lasts the better for the Night King who can raise the dead to his side, not only does he have no incentive to take risks to accelerate matters, he has strong incentives to do the opposite, his army won't tire or need refuelling.

Ridiculously bad strategy on both sides. Why would the living launch an attack at night when they could sit tight in their castle and send out the dragons? Who was in charge of the living's strategy? Why weren't they using Bran's magical visions to aid them? They knew killing a white walker would take out loads of others but didn't target them in battle?

The red priestess deus ex machina at the start and and Arya deus ex machina at the end. Basically all the major characters can't be killed no matter how perilous their situation unless to save another more major character.

So much stuff that was setup just obliterated without a payoff. Reminds me of Lost. Probably why the guy can't finish his books, he knows he can't resolve things satisfyingly, the TV writers don't even care to try.

100,000 soldiers die in 30 seconds but the obvious people survive to the end.

The whole thing was so dark that I had no idea who lived and died during the battle.

it really tested my patience and nowhere near clear storytelling.

think i am the only person who never saw an episode of the show ))
only know the girl with the dragons from pictures , she looks cool!
and that Snow-man

where is it possible to see the first episodes ? is it on amazon or netflix already?

I need a play-by-play of that episode, I couldn't see a goddamned thing for at least an hour of it (though I saw enough to see three of my favourites die, honestly, it was more stressful than Bake Off). Let's have some damn politics to round it all off now please.

Theon was great though - he's been one of my favourites all the way through. And Ser Jorah. Ah well.

I don't think it was as bad as that although I have mixed feelings. The Night King had essentially won the battle. There were just a handful of survivors left when he confronted Bran at the Godswood. Everyone there was wiped out other than Theon and there were a few stragglers elsewhere. He's not omniscient, I don't he can account for every last person. I also don't think it's fair to call Melisandre or Ayra deus ex machinas when their respective roles had been foreshadowed pretty much since the very beginning and many references and hints were made along the way. There were also references in previous episodes as to why they didn't want to risk the dragons since they are vulnerable to those ice javelin things and they only have two of them. 

But I do agree somewhat with your first point - we've had so much build up, since the prologue of the first episode in fact, so many scenes showing this unstoppable march, of what a apocalyptic force they are - for it all to finish in one episode was a little disappointing. And despite a couple of major characters dying, I was rolling my eyes the way all the main characters were left standing at the end with all the cannon fodder wiped out. A little too Hollywood. But even that I can justify to some extent because I guess they are all the people that have survived before and so are probably the most resilient. 

My biggest complaint was probably the Now TV stream over-compression making everything pixelated, smudgy and juddering. In already hazy, dark scenes it made it impossible to see what was going on at times. 

If it helps, I was watching on SkyHD and it was still largely impossible to see what was going on. My mother's going to have a fit when she comes round to try catching up...

I enjoyed episode 3 very much, watching it with the lights off to see through the murk.

Spoilers obviously (what else is this thread?). . .

The choice of Arya to finish the Night King made perfect sense as her arc has been one of endless training.

He was a horror villain rather than a dramatic villain, as his role was simply to scare the bejesus out of us for seven and a bit seasons, as well as prompting those characters, psychologically and morally capable of making an alliance, to make one. We knew he was a horror villain (the embodiment of death) because no attempt has ever been made to characterise him over 60 odd episodes.

I was disappointed however with the battle strategy of the Stark-Targaryen alliance, which seemed to waste so many good fighters pointlessly by engaging in a charge of the Light Brigade scenario. I was also disappointed that Arya got so close to the Night King without using her faceless man disguise skill which she trained for for so long. Big picture though, with a horror villain like the Night King, Arya's goal of simply living another day (which chimed with her Season 1 sword training) seemed bang on the money, being the goal of every horror protagonist, and she fulfilled her role satisfyingly.

Speaking as someone who has never read the books, from here on, Cersei's present degeneration into a total monster feels like a major weakness of the show. Allied with a camp co-conspirator like Euron, they are basically Hook and Smee from Peter Pan, a Pantomime duo. So the sooner they are dispatched, hopefully in the next episode, the better. For fan service's sake, we do need to see the Hound fight Cersei's champion The Mountain, in a fight that may see the demise of both. Ideally thereafter, Jaime Lannister will finish Cersei, completing his redemption arc by ironically becoming a Queen Slayer as well as a King Slayer.

The dramatically interesting stuff comes after, with Dany and Jon and Tyrion and Sansa, et al, being complex characters with flaws. We know that Dany is tending toward tyrannous dictatorship, and Jon is too straightforward to think politically, so the influence of Tyrion and Sansa and the completion of their character arcs will be particularly interesting, and will determine how satisfying the overall conclusion of the whole show is. I look forward to it.

Dothraki was a brilliant fighting force who had seen off all that had been before them. Best scene in the programme as all the lights went out. They talked about holding back the dragons as the only chance to get to the Night King, think they covered this point well. 

I wanted Arya to be faceless when she killed the Night King though.


My friend works on this. Said the filming of the episode over fifty odd days was incredible. I say friend, he won't tell me will sit on the Iron Throne. So I won't talk to him any longer. Wow though, what an episode.

It honestly would have made less sense if Arya had used her faceless training to get to the Night King. Ultimately Arya rejected the Faceless Men in favour of returning home to her family, so although she *has* the training, it's not really as important to her now as it was at the time. And she's not sneaking into anywhere to assassinate someone in a way that might call for an effective disguise; being Arya Stark doesn't put her at a disadvantage that being someone else might not in this situation. The only reason she might have needed to appear to be someone else would have been if the writers decided to leave her in the Weirwood as a pretend decoy Bran, and that wouldn't work because if the Night King can sense Bran from miles away, then he can probably tell that the Bran two feet in front of him isn't the Bran he's been sensing the whole time (also, don't people have to be dead for Arya to be able to wear their faces?).

It's cool that she has this ability, but it's not the right ability for this battle. She may yet find use for it in the south, but I don't know that it's as important anymore as people seem to want to believe it is.