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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:47:02 GMT
The new age we are living in is quite different to the 80's when I was growing up
I do recall IRA attacks but the nature of these was quite different- I am not "comparing" but the nature of modern terrorism of one of malice and hatred
The IRA would often give warnings and allow time for people to be evacuated
The modern terrorism we face has no logical reasoning or aim or manifesto
That it is tangled up with a religion not rooted in the west makes it difficult to have objective discussions without being termed a racist
I thank god that I do not have any children
Although most people can not see beyond their own nose and own 4 walls, I think modern society is not suitable for bringing a child into
The terrible events that happened last night cannot be predicted or prevented from occurring again
I feel ashamed at what the human race has become and in many ways we have regressed instead of made progress
Now we will have to face weeks of media speculation- why did this person carry out the atrocity, what in his upbringing lead to this?
Just take a look about you and see how sickening society is now
All the answers are there in front of you
We don't need a psychoanalysis
Love and thoughts to all those affected and hope any missing children are quickly reunited
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:48:40 GMT
I just want to say, I have alot of love and respect for alot of posters on here, and reading back I realise some of my posts early in this thread may of come across insensitive or horrible, it was absolutely not my intention. My emotions got the better of me in this situation, and at the start of the discussion, all we knew was the videos and chat of a stampede of people running out of the concert before there was any proof of it being a terror attack so I was acting on that, whilst I should of waited for more information before I commented. So anyone upset or offended by anything I said, I sincerely apologise. All we need is peace and love right now, and my thoughts and prayers are with thd victims and their families, the concert goers, the staff at the arena and Ariana and her team, who are all victims in this horrific ordeal too. Don't worry We know no ill harm was intended Social media does magnify these events which can make things very tense and lead to conflicting information and things unfolding in an odd sequence of events |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:52:01 GMT
Many of us lived through the IRA bombings of the last part of the twentieth century and we didn't blame all Irish people or Catholics, so lets not do that now with followers of Islam. There are evil people in all walks of life and it is those with evil in their hearts who commit these atrocities, they just need an excuse to dress it up with. Let us think about the people who will not return home from what should have been an innocent night out watching a popular singer. Many of us could have been caught up in such an event. People like Martyn Hett, who I've only met once or twice as a friend of a friend, we were due to be in the same party on Sunday I think, but Martyn has not been seen or heard of from since the concert when he was split up from his friend. This is correct However it is also correct that there is an issue specifically within Islam That people are scared to tackle head on Saying there are evil people in all walks of life only distracts from the current issue The perpetrators of all such recent vicious attacks have affiliated themselves with Islam- not any other religion And until Islam can address this and we can have an open discussion it will go on Rarely do we see people willing to have the detailed conversations and explore about why there is conflict between Islamic fundamentalists and Western-rooted values |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:56:04 GMT
Many of us lived through the IRA bombings of the last part of the twentieth century and we didn't blame all Irish people or Catholics, so lets not do that now with followers of Islam. There are evil people in all walks of life and it is those with evil in their hearts who commit these atrocities, they just need an excuse to dress it up with. Let us think about the people who will not return home from what should have been an innocent night out watching a popular singer. Many of us could have been caught up in such an event. People like Martyn Hett, who I've only met once or twice as a friend of a friend, we were due to be in the same party on Sunday I think, but Martyn has not been seen or heard of from since the concert when he was split up from his friend. This is correct However it is also correct that there is an issue specifically within Islam That people are scared to tackle head on Saying there are evil people in all walks of life only distracts from the current issue The perpetrators of all such vicious attacks have affiliated themselves with Islam- not any other religion And until Islam can address this and we can have an open discussion it will go on But maybe if we stopped invading and bombing their countries and supporting people that invade and bomb their countries......well who knows? The British have and continue to do really really evil things in the world so possibly it's best to first off look in a mirror? |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:56:17 GMT
I was pretty young and not very politically informed when the IRA were at the height of their doings, could someone let me know if the Catholic church were being constantly called on to condemn their actions? If there were suggestions that nuns should stop wearing wimples in public? That sort of thing?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:58:43 GMT
This is correct However it is also correct that there is an issue specifically within Islam That people are scared to tackle head on Saying there are evil people in all walks of life only distracts from the current issue The perpetrators of all such vicious attacks have affiliated themselves with Islam- not any other religion And until Islam can address this and we can have an open discussion it will go on But maybe if we stopped invading and bombing their countries and supporting people that invade and bomb their countries......well who knows? The British have and continue to do really really evil things in the world so possibly it's best to first off look in a mirror? Perhaps if they were able to construct a civilized society Where women and homosexuals were not second class citizens They would not need intervention |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:01:13 GMT
But maybe if we stopped invading and bombing their countries and supporting people that invade and bomb their countries......well who knows? The British have and continue to do really really evil things in the world so possibly it's best to first off look in a mirror? Perhaps if they were able to construct a civilized society Where women and homosexuals were not second class citizens They would not need intervention Coz the uk have a great track record with the gays!? Just look at the awful situation in Africa. and don't women STILL not have equal pay in this country? |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:07:31 GMT
Very sad for Manchester today. Love that city, it's as vibrant a place as anywhere, and will surely continue to thrive.
And I guess I know now who around here are the racists who would happily tar whole religions, regions, countries for the actions of a single criminal. Which is helpful to know.
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Post by infofreako on May 23, 2017 11:15:32 GMT
Very sad for Manchester today. Love that city, it's as vibrant a place as anywhere, and will surely continue to thrive. And I guess I know now who around here are the racists who would happily tar whole religions, regions, countries for the actions of a single criminal. Which is helpful to know. Reminds me of something I once heard in Avenue Q |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:16:07 GMT
I was pretty young and not very politically informed when the IRA were at the height of their doings, could someone let me know if the Catholic church were being constantly called on to condemn their actions? If there were suggestions that nuns should stop wearing wimples in public? That sort of thing? Likewise I'm not old enough to remember but I read something earlier that pointed to Manchester Police at the time cracking down on anti-Irish hate crimes as well as working in counter terrorism in reference to the IRA history with Manchester. So it seems there was a bit of consensus of 'a bunch of extremist idiots not all Irish/Catholics' I'll have a poke about at lunchtime and see if I can find actual information. |
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Post by steve10086 on May 23, 2017 11:16:54 GMT
Part of me thinks that stopping the spreading of photos and videos of the incidents would be at least a minor help. Obviously they will be spread on social media and nobody can stop that but what is the use of seeing videos of young children/teenagers screaming and running on the news? To build awareness to the general public who can do absolutely nothing to stop this? I have avoided looking at any photos/videos and I'm still fully aware of how barbaric what has happened is. In my mind, all showing this stuff over and over on news channels does is show potential terrorists what is possible for them and emboldens them. Would we have had so many attacks happening over the last few years if they hadn't all been SO widely publicized? What's more, I worry about the effect that seeing these images on a regular basis is having on the mental health of the public. It has not been that long that we have had television and the internet and the internet on our phones. I don't see how being unable to avoid these images is going to do anything to help depression and depression can lead to extremely negative consequences, where people feel the need to hurt themselves and occasionally others. It just seems like a vicious, vicious cycle. Right now, every time I go to search for something on Twitter I am faced with an autoplay video of people running from the explosion. Who is this helping? This is the most sensible thing I have seen regarding this event. I have read the main headlines, and took a quick look at this thread, but now I'm done. I'm not going to watch the blanket news coverage or start posting about it on Facebook. For terrorism to work you need to be terrified, and I refuse to get into that position. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:29:20 GMT
I was pretty young and not very politically informed when the IRA were at the height of their doings, could someone let me know if the Catholic church were being constantly called on to condemn their actions? If there were suggestions that nuns should stop wearing wimples in public? That sort of thing? Likewise I'm not old enough to remember but I read something earlier that pointed to Manchester Police at the time cracking down on anti-Irish hate crimes as well as working in counter terrorism in reference to the IRA history with Manchester. So it seems there was a bit of consensus of 'a bunch of extremist idiots not all Irish/Catholics' I'll have a poke about at lunchtime and see if I can find actual information. I grew up when the IRA was quite active and I don't think it was pleasant to have an Irish accent in England then, but don't know how comparable it was. I remember being at a train station once in the 1980s when people became anxious about a suitcase that had been left; there was visible relief when it was claimed by a couple in traditional Muslim dress because they were clearly very unlikely to be members of the IRA. Just shows how things change - and hopefully how things will change in the future. Also makes you wonder what the next big terrorist threat will be, since there will certainly be one - Cornish nationalists? Bahai extremists? |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:33:37 GMT
I was pretty young and not very politically informed when the IRA were at the height of their doings, could someone let me know if the Catholic church were being constantly called on to condemn their actions? If there were suggestions that nuns should stop wearing wimples in public? That sort of thing? Likewise I'm not old enough to remember but I read something earlier that pointed to Manchester Police at the time cracking down on anti-Irish hate crimes as well as working in counter terrorism in reference to the IRA history with Manchester. So it seems there was a bit of consensus of 'a bunch of extremist idiots not all Irish/Catholics' I'll have a poke about at lunchtime and see if I can find actual information. I don't remember there being an anti-Irish or anti-Catholic attitude at the time, or if there was it was low key. It was "IRA terrorism", not "Irish terrorism" or "Catholic terrorism", as far as the press was concerned. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:34:59 GMT
Also makes you wonder what the next big terrorist threat will be, since there will certainly be one - Cornish nationalists? Bahai extremists? No need for any "next big threat". Just one individual, acting for whatever reason, is enough. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:36:19 GMT
Likewise I'm not old enough to remember but I read something earlier that pointed to Manchester Police at the time cracking down on anti-Irish hate crimes as well as working in counter terrorism in reference to the IRA history with Manchester. So it seems there was a bit of consensus of 'a bunch of extremist idiots not all Irish/Catholics' I'll have a poke about at lunchtime and see if I can find actual information. I don't remember there being an anti-Irish or anti-Catholic attitude at the time, or if there was it was low key. It was "IRA terrorism", not "Irish terrorism" or "Catholic terrorism", as far as the press was concerned. But them where the days before 24 hour rolling news and online print. Gotta keep the public glued |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:41:44 GMT
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Post by infofreako on May 23, 2017 11:47:29 GMT
I'm not convinced that's entirely correct. If the attacker was in the foyer area he was perhaps waiting for the show to end. Had it ended earlier or later he would've pressed the button earlier or later accordingly |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:49:15 GMT
I'm not convinced that's entirely correct. If the attacker was in the foyer area he was perhaps waiting for the show to end. Had it ended earlier or later he would've pressed the button earlier or later accordingly Well thats true, it could of worked out either way, none of us really know. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:50:21 GMT
Also makes you wonder what the next big terrorist threat will be, since there will certainly be one - Cornish nationalists? Bahai extremists? No need for any "next big threat". Just one individual, acting for whatever reason, is enough. Of course - but there usually is one group/threat that public fears are mainly based on - whether that's the IRA, ETA or ISIS. We'll be lucky if there's never a bit of national-religious terrorism going on. |
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Post by infofreako on May 23, 2017 11:52:16 GMT
A quick check of the last few shows on setlist .FM shows an identical setlist every night of the tour. I understand people trying to get answers or rationalise by talking about late finishes or extra songs but its certainly not fact
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:56:05 GMT
A quick check of the last few shows on setlist .FM shows an identical setlist every night of the tour. I understand people trying to get answers or rationalise by talking about late finishes or extra songs but its certainly not fact I don't know about the setlist part for sure, but the late start is true. From my friend who was at the concert basing it on the time it was due to start on the ticket to the time the show actually started.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:00:17 GMT
A quick check of the last few shows on setlist .FM shows an identical setlist every night of the tour. I understand people trying to get answers or rationalise by talking about late finishes or extra songs but its certainly not fact I don't know about the xetlist part for sure, but the late start is true. From my friend who was at the concert basing it on the time it was due to start on the ticket to the time the show actually started. Almost always the time on the ticket is when the doors open and not when the main act comes on |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:02:00 GMT
I don't know about the xetlist part for sure, but the late start is true. From my friend who was at the concert basing it on the time it was due to start on the ticket to the time the show actually started. Almost always the time on the ticket is when the doors open and not when the main act comes on Sorry, I didn't mean the ticket, the itinery thing in the venue. |
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Post by infofreako on May 23, 2017 12:03:05 GMT
Concerts never start on time. I think I've been to one in about 3000 in 20 odd years where the headliner was prompt. With big scale pop shows having worked on some its incredibly rare as after the support acts they have a lot to do in terms of setting pyro cues etc after the support acts end. I'm not doubting it started late. I just think its clutching at straws to think it had any impact on casualty figures.
Around the end of the show and outside the arena bowl in a place thousands of people need to exit through is an ideal time for an attacker of this type to cause optimum panic.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 12:05:08 GMT
Islamic State claim responsibility for this act as detailed on BBC news at the moment
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