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Post by viserys on Dec 15, 2017 9:58:44 GMT
Not sure why anyone is surprised at the meh reviews. Ive said before that Disney dont actually have a good track record on stage. If you take out the mega hit Lion King, its v patchy indeed. Tarzan and Little Mermaid flopped in NY, Hunchback and Jungle Book havent even made it to Broadway. Beauty and Beast did ok. Aladdin may buck the trend. Certainly Pinnochio will see out its NT run and fade. Frozen looms large on the horizon of course, but you feel they should have done better. Well that comment is nonsense. Beauty and the Beast was a great commercial success all around the world and ran for over a decade on Broadway. The several UK tours I agree were more successful that it’s shorter West End run. The amazing Aida did over 5 years on Broadway and was very popular in Europe. Tarzan too now has amazing success in Germany. And there are little shows called Aladdin and Mary Poppins that both ran for years on both the West End and broadway with tours all over the world that still continue to play. It’s not just Lion King that had been a success. Success in Germany is hardly a benchmark, after all even Frank Wildhorn is usually a roaring success over here  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 11:40:56 GMT
Not sure why anyone is surprised at the meh reviews. Ive said before that Disney dont actually have a good track record on stage. If you take out the mega hit Lion King, its v patchy indeed. Tarzan and Little Mermaid flopped in NY, Hunchback and Jungle Book havent even made it to Broadway. Beauty and Beast did ok. Aladdin may buck the trend. Certainly Pinnochio will see out its NT run and fade. Frozen looms large on the horizon of course, but you feel they should have done better. The Lion King was the one time they got in a director who had their own strong style that fitted the material, Tarzan tried but the material was much weaker, Jungle Book at least has had an interesting concept (and still might be made to work) but the rest are more like plonking the film on the stage (don't get me started on the missed chances of Beauty & the Beast and Aladdin, both good source material with no theatricality). This sounds more like the honourable failure of trying but having source material that really isn't very strong in this day and age. |
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Post by musicalmarge on Dec 15, 2017 13:18:04 GMT
Well that comment is nonsense. Beauty and the Beast was a great commercial success all around the world and ran for over a decade on Broadway. The several UK tours I agree were more successful that it’s shorter West End run. The amazing Aida did over 5 years on Broadway and was very popular in Europe. Tarzan too now has amazing success in Germany. And there are little shows called Aladdin and Mary Poppins that both ran for years on both the West End and broadway with tours all over the world that still continue to play. It’s not just Lion King that had been a success. Success in Germany is hardly a benchmark, after all even Frank Wildhorn is usually a roaring success over here Because Starlight Express in Germany which has run for decades isn’t a benchmark of success? Sure.... Have you seen the price of tickets for musicals in Germany? Your UK centric view on theatre not being important in Europe is wrong. Stage Ents based in Holland in turn brings shows to the West End, so the success of Europe greatly impacts our London theatre scene. |
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Post by viserys on Dec 15, 2017 13:25:25 GMT
Marge, I am German, so I think I have a fairly good judgement of the German market and my view is hardly UK-centric.
German taste has not evolved since the German musical audience was first introduced to the big overblown blockbuster musicals of the 80s. Which is why Starlight Express is still running, which is why the tedious vampires of Tanz der Vampire refuse to die even after 20 years, sappy nonsense by Frank Wildhorn with half a dozen larger than life-ballads thrives and indeed big colourful Disney spectacles. Stage Entertainment failed so spectacularly in London that they closed their London offices after "Made in Dagenham", by the way. Anyway, this is going far off-topic now, so I'll just shut up.
Just one more thing... YES I KNOW THE PRICE OF TICKETS here. Which is why I prefer to trundle across the Channel on the Eurostar four-five times a year to enjoy musicals and plays of far superior quality at much lower prices in London. But ho hey, I'm seeing Tarzan next week. Rawr!
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Post by musicalmarge on Dec 15, 2017 13:31:42 GMT
Any links to Pinocchio reviews?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 13:53:59 GMT
Any links to Pinocchio reviews? You can see the strings quite clearly. |
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Post by Ade on Dec 15, 2017 15:06:06 GMT
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Post by theatrelover123 on Dec 15, 2017 15:27:21 GMT
Any links to Pinocchio reviews? Errmmmmm.....Google?  |
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Post by showtoones on Dec 15, 2017 16:17:34 GMT
It seems to me that overall Pinocchio's reviews were very mixed. Most gave it three stars with one 4 star review and 1 two star review. There were misgivings with the show, but each review certainly wasn't a 100% pan. I do think there is an audience for this so time will tell how it does. I happened to love it but I do agree that it is more of a play with music than musical and as many critics said, they wanted more music.
Joe is VERY likeable though and the idea with the puppets did work for me, though I know some on here were less enthused.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 18:08:11 GMT
It seems to me that overall Pinocchio's reviews were very mixed. Most gave it three stars with one 4 star review and 1 two star review. There were misgivings with the show, but each review certainly wasn't a 100% pan. I do think there is an audience for this so time will tell how it does. I happened to love it but I do agree that it is more of a play with music than musical and as many critics said, they wanted more music. Joe is VERY likeable though and the idea with the puppets did work for me, though I know some on here were less enthused. The NT have loyal supporters And gullible people Who attend due to it being the NT So many shows are critic and flop proof If this Pinocchio was in the WE It would BW a very different story I assure you However let the crappy shows continue and People will eventually give up The NT are really as answerable to anyone As a private venture Which is why they are offering so many awful shows And getting away with it |
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Post by theatrelover123 on Dec 15, 2017 18:23:21 GMT
It seems to me that overall Pinocchio's reviews were very mixed. Most gave it three stars with one 4 star review and 1 two star review. There were misgivings with the show, but each review certainly wasn't a 100% pan. I do think there is an audience for this so time will tell how it does. I happened to love it but I do agree that it is more of a play with music than musical and as many critics said, they wanted more music. Joe is VERY likeable though and the idea with the puppets did work for me, though I know some on here were less enthused. The NT have loyal supporters And gullible people Who attend due to it being the NT So many shows are critic and flop proof If this Pinocchio was in the WE It would BW a very different story I assure you However let the crappy shows continue and People will eventually give up The NT are really as answerable to anyone As a private venture Which is why they are offering so many awful shows And getting away with it That's true. Salome, Common and St George and the Dragon were absolutely critic and flop proof weren't they??! Good point - and made in such a clear way |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 18:31:49 GMT
The NT have loyal supporters And gullible people Who attend due to it being the NT So many shows are critic and flop proof If this Pinocchio was in the WE It would BW a very different story I assure you However let the crappy shows continue and People will eventually give up The NT are really as answerable to anyone As a private venture Which is why they are offering so many awful shows And getting away with it That's true. Salome, Common and St George and the Dragon were absolutely critic and flop proof weren't they??! Good point There is no incentive For the NT NOT to stage plays like that again They won’t suffer financially enough If they were commercial productions All three of those would have closed within a week of the press night So yes from this respect many of the shows are resistant to critics at the NT As the run of all three was completed despite critical mocking Regardless of how full or empty they were That’s not how theatre should work If there is excrement Clean it up ASAP Don’t leave it lying about for 3 months to get hard and dried out I don’t feel the NT are accountable anymore They ignore poor reviews And audience opinion And have lost their way All is see are their massive greedy gobs open for more money at every opportunity Where does this go? Follies warranted a whole appeal I am sorry but the production looked cheap and sh*t If they actually managed to transfer commercial shows like they used to They would not need to come begging And could be self sufficient The amount of papering the NT has been doing in the last 2 years is shocking This didn’t use to happen They need to ask themselves why this is Would You even imagine This is the same venue which Had Anything goes My fair lady Jerry springer Funny thing happened forum It seems an age ago |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 18:40:38 GMT
People have paid £67 for this show
It makes me upset and angry
The NT have a duty to spend money wisely
And offer value for money
Not just piss it away because they have lost their way
The NT reflects nicely this country of late
Overpriced
And crap value for money
And lacking direction and leadership
With a poor end product
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 19:03:49 GMT
It's all ery easy to find remember the NT's flops this year and how they haven't been the bst for them but this year they have had a lot of successes reviews and sales wise aswell with Angels in America, Follies,Network,Barbershop chronicles, mosquitos as well as many others and there programme next year already look so good with Macbeth already sold out. As well I didn't really think the production looked cheap and naff and I thought it was Avery visually exciting show and you know it was all meant to look warn, they didn't just dig out old tatty props and if I'm honest i personally have seen shows that I have thought were terrible but have had great reviews so it is all personal opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 19:08:38 GMT
God knows what you think of America then, whose government long ago descended beyond the gutter and is now down in some sort of subterranean circle of hell.
And their non-musical theatre is mostly rubbish, too. Think yourself lucky you don't live there.
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Post by showtoones on Dec 15, 2017 20:06:28 GMT
What's worse than uninformed theater goers? That would be posts written in a haiku style....
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Post by Boob on Dec 16, 2017 8:26:23 GMT
Spicey, I’m not defending the NT in any way (and I hate the way the organisation is going) or some of the woeful work they’ve put on recently. But the whole point is that they’re able to take risks and put on work that commercial producers wouldn’t. This often involves failure, more so recently - which I think points to them scheduling shows before they have a decent script and producing them badly (unforgivable). But it would be a sad waste of their resources and remit to be staging revivals of commercial American musicals all the time (something which Nunn received a lot of flack for) when these are the staple of the commercial sector.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 10:00:43 GMT
Marge, I am German, so I think I have a fairly good judgement of the German market and my view is hardly UK-centric. German taste has not evolved since the German musical audience was first introduced to the big overblown blockbuster musicals of the 80s. Which is why Starlight Express is still running, which is why the tedious vampires of Tanz der Vampire refuse to die even after 20 years, sappy nonsense by Frank Wildhorn with half a dozen larger than life-ballads thrives and indeed big colourful Disney spectacles. Stage Entertainment failed so spectacularly in London that they closed their London offices after "Made in Dagenham", by the way. Anyway, this is going far off-topic now, so I'll just shut up. Just one more thing... YES I KNOW THE PRICE OF TICKETS here. Which is why I prefer to trundle across the Channel on the Eurostar four-five times a year to enjoy musicals and plays of far superior quality at much lower prices in London. But ho hey, I'm seeing Tarzan next week. Rawr! Ignore her, Westend Wendy showbizkid Musical Marge has always been salty. |
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Post by jek on Dec 17, 2017 10:25:46 GMT
We booked this primarily for two reasons. The first was Audrey Brisson who was so fantastic in La Strada earlier in the year. The second was for the design. My daughter did a three day course at the National at half term in which they learned how to do various paint effects to create giant letters (their own initials) - clearly a nod to what was being designed for Pleasure Island. (Incidentally the course for 16-21 year olds was a bargain at £30.) Brisson was fantastic and we enjoyed the design (although being in the cheap row C seats in the stalls I suspect it would have looked better from further back). We also enjoyed the music - although feared for the musicians every time Pinocchio leapt over the pit.
Overall though we were underwhelmed. It wasn't the worst thing ever but there was something wrong with the tone. Not quite magical play nor full on panto. And the fox reminded me too much of the dragon in St George I'm afraid. It's a shame as some of the elements are really good.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 20, 2017 17:36:32 GMT
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Post by argon on Dec 24, 2017 10:40:06 GMT
I think this had a strong case for Pinocchio to be actually played by a boy/teen. I just couldn't warm up to the fact that an adult was pretending to be a boy. The ensemble playing children seemed relatively fine but Joe Idris-Roberts depiction of a boy just appeared odd.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 24, 2017 12:44:42 GMT
I know this would be dreadfully unimaginative but why not have the puppet played by a... wait for it... puppet and then when he turns into a boy have him played by... hold onto your hair-do A REAL BOY!
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Post by dippy on Dec 24, 2017 13:08:45 GMT
I know this would be dreadfully unimaginative but why not have the puppet played by a... wait for it... puppet and then when he turns into a boy have him played by... hold onto your hair-do A REAL BOY! That's what I was expecting and was very disappointed that it wasn't the case. |
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Post by anthony40 on Dec 24, 2017 13:37:17 GMT
This seems to have divided opinions, hadn't it?
Did anyone else get the irony that the main adult characters were portrayed by puppets and the puppets were played by real people?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2017 13:55:40 GMT
I know this would be dreadfully unimaginative but why not have the puppet played by a... wait for it... puppet and then when he turns into a boy have him played by... hold onto your hair-do A REAL BOY! Which is what everyone would be expecting so they went for something different. Whether if worked is up for debate, but they would have been just as criticized (maybe more so) if they had gone the obvious route |
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