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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:30:01 GMT
With regard to the "longest running" debate here, the current edition of Les Mis is re-staged, re-directed, re-cut, re-lit, re-orchestrated, with additional music, new set and a new running time. It is a new, separate production to the version that closed.
Phantom will return, when the theatre is fit for purpose, re-engineered with the same set, same direction, same score and same running time.
In my opinion, Les Mis is a new show and has started a new run and Phantom will return as the same show to continue it's run, therefore it's quite clear that one show will continue it's run since 1986, Phantom.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:30:42 GMT
At the risk of being pedantic, if lots of bits and pieces are being updated and modernised then it isn't really the same production anymore to the extent they are trying to claim it is.
Plus it will no longer have its continuous run in any event, so it isnt really wrong to say the original has closed!
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Post by danielwhit on Jul 30, 2020 12:34:26 GMT
At the risk of being pedantic, if lots of bits and pieces are being updated and modernised then it isn't really the same production anymore to the extent they are trying to claim it is. Plus it will no longer have its continuous run in any event, so it isnt really wrong to say the original has closed! OK, so where do you draw the line for that? Phantom closed to update and modernise its sound system a few years back. Did that change the production? Costumes get replaced regularly, does that change the production? Microphones change very regularly, does that change the production? A plank of wood underneath a set piece decayed and was replaced, does that change the production? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:35:46 GMT
At the risk of being pedantic, if lots of bits and pieces are being updated and modernised then it isn't really the same production anymore to the extent they are trying to claim it is. Plus it will no longer have its continuous run in any event, so it isnt really wrong to say the original has closed! Haha ok then Mamma Mia takes the crown then  |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 12:39:04 GMT
At the risk of being pedantic, if lots of bits and pieces are being updated and modernised then it isn't really the same production anymore to the extent they are trying to claim it is. Plus it will no longer have its continuous run in any event, so it isnt really wrong to say the original has closed! OK, so where do you draw the line for that? Phantom closed to update and modernise its sound system a few years back. Did that change the production? Costumes get replaced regularly, does that change the production? Microphones change very regularly, does that change the production? A plank of wood underneath a set piece decayed and was replaced, does that change the production? Also to lead on from this, when Les Mis moved from the Palace to the Queens, they used a smaller set that was used for a touring production and made some revisions to the staging and yet people still referred to it as "the original". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:40:02 GMT
At the risk of being pedantic, if lots of bits and pieces are being updated and modernised then it isn't really the same production anymore to the extent they are trying to claim it is. Plus it will no longer have its continuous run in any event, so it isnt really wrong to say the original has closed! OK, so where do you draw the line for that? Phantom closed to update and modernise its sound system a few years back. Did that change the production? Costumes get replaced regularly, does that change the production? Microphones change very regularly, does that change the production? A plank of wood underneath a set piece decayed and was replaced, does that change the production? Trigger’s broom! |
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 30, 2020 12:41:44 GMT
Can we please stop re-posting the full Stage article, especially just to add a single sentence at the bottom. Not only is it really long, but The Stage has financial problems of its own, and the uncredited journalist probably wants to continuing being paid for his or her work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:44:27 GMT
OK, so where do you draw the line for that? Phantom closed to update and modernise its sound system a few years back. Did that change the production? Costumes get replaced regularly, does that change the production? Microphones change very regularly, does that change the production? A plank of wood underneath a set piece decayed and was replaced, does that change the production? Also to lead on from this, when Les Mis moved from the Palace to the Queens, they used a smaller set that was used for a touring production and made some revisions to the staging and yet people still referred to it as "the original". You change the wheels on your car, it's the same car. You replace your car with a new one, it's a different car. But I suppose this could go on a while haha |
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Post by 49thand8th on Jul 30, 2020 13:15:29 GMT
I certainly hope Ryan Murphy turns this into a miniseries at some point in his life.
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 13:20:55 GMT
I know I'm stealing this joke, but this whole situation is more confusing than the plot of 'Love Never Dies'
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Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2020 14:20:32 GMT
I think the only continuous long runner for a musical will be The Lion King as Mamma Mia! has moved theatres twice and they replaced the set when they moved to the Novello.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 30, 2020 14:24:15 GMT
Slightly flabbergasted that between them, ALW, Cameron and RUG couldn’t get their story’s to line up about what the heck is going on.
Cameron looks very petulant after reading the considered and clear statement released today by the Really Useful Group
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 14:24:52 GMT
I think the only continuous long runner for a musical will be The Lion King as Mamma Mia! has moved theatres twice and they replaced the set when they moved to the Novello. Better that than Mamma Mia! |
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Post by anthony on Jul 30, 2020 14:31:56 GMT
On this, I don't think there is any issue with replacing the set - as long as the set, staging, costumes, etc are the same... otherwise you could make the argument that every single time a new actor takes on a role and a new costume or set piece is produced to accommodate that actor that it's a new production...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:36:05 GMT
Slightly flabbergasted that between them, ALW, Cameron and RUG couldn’t get their story’s to line up about what the heck is going on. Cameron looks very petulant after reading the considered and clear statement released today by the Really Useful Group |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 30, 2020 14:41:04 GMT
I'm so confused. I am not sure this clears anything up. As this tweet points out, the person at RUG interviewed is the same person who claimed the UK tour was an "exact replica" of what's at Her Majesty's, when it clearly wasn't. So whether this RUG spokesperson is a source to be trusted, who knows? |
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Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2020 14:47:01 GMT
On this, I don't think there is any issue with replacing the set - as long as the set, staging, costumes, etc are the same... otherwise you could make the argument that every single time a new actor takes on a role and a new costume or set piece is produced to accommodate that actor that it's a new production... The set for Mamma Mia! is the set they use for productions now such as the London production which is smaller and more modular. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:57:19 GMT
With the advances in technology you’d think it would be cheaper to do it nowadays.
Also they hired Paul Daniels originally I’m sure there are ways to do things now.
The audience want the chandelier to start on stage and rise up over the audience.
Is there a way they could deceptively have the chandelier rise on stage but instead of having the lights on have them flashing. As the onstage chandelier then rises into the flyes and the chandelier which was hidden above the audience has crept down in the darkness. Then there could be flashes, pyrotechnics even projections to deflect the switch between on stage and in the audience chandeliers.
And repeat the process as the chandelier falls .
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 14:58:30 GMT
I'm so confused. I am not sure this clears anything up. As this tweet points out, the person at RUG interviewed is the same person who claimed the UK tour was an "exact replica" of what's at Her Majesty's, when it clearly wasn't. So whether this RUG spokesperson is a source to be trusted, who knows? You and me both! As for Jessica Koravos (the person being interviewed), she did mention that people who were Hal Prince's 'associates' and were "very involved" would be working to make sure that it IS the original. But were any of these 'associates' involved with the recent tour? If so, then there probably would be some cause for concern. In the meantime, we'll just have to wait and see. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 30, 2020 15:21:52 GMT
I'm so confused. I am not sure this clears anything up. As this tweet points out, the person at RUG interviewed is the same person who claimed the UK tour was an "exact replica" of what's at Her Majesty's, when it clearly wasn't. So whether this RUG spokesperson is a source to be trusted, who knows? You and me both! As for Jessica Koravos (the person being interviewed), she did mention that people who were Hal Prince's 'associates' and were "very involved" would be working to make sure that it IS the original. But were any of these 'associates' involved with the recent tour? If so, then there probably would be some cause for concern. In the meantime, we'll just have to wait and see. Yes, the tour director was Seth Sklar-Heyn, who was resident director of the Broadway production. So that's presumably who Koravos means by "associate"...which is concerning. Interestingly, Koravos has 'liked' this tweet by a fan...what to make of that? |
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Post by Oleanna on Jul 30, 2020 15:24:35 GMT
I’m interested to know how many people on here actually saw the short-lived UK Tour at the Leicester Curve?
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 15:50:50 GMT
Yes, the tour director was Seth Sklar-Heyn, who was resident director of the Broadway production. So that's presumably who Koravos means by "associate"...which is concerning. Let's just hope that if he is working on bringing it back to HMT, it will be like the original and that the recent tour was only restaged to accommodate the venue size. Interestingly, Koravos has 'liked' this tweet by a fan...what to make of that? I don't have twitter, so I can't really say much on the matter. I’m interested to know how many people on here actually saw the short-lived UK Tour at the Leicester Curve? I think a few on this thread have seen it and I've heard mixed things about the Leicester Curve one. I've heard that it was in early 'try-outs', which was why some things were different. But I can't say for certain. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 30, 2020 16:00:06 GMT
Yes, the tour director was Seth Sklar-Heyn, who was resident director of the Broadway production. So that's presumably who Koravos means by "associate"...which is concerning. Let's just hope that if he is working on bringing it back to HMT, it will be like the original and that the recent tour was only restaged to accommodate the venue size. I was hoping that, but if you read the Stage article, it talks about parts of the set "having already been decommissioned". I think that is a reference to the Angel. I can only hope they intend to replace it with a new one if what was there was no longer functioning, it's not as if it can't be manufactured. There's a whole company whose business is sculpting these things for Phantom productions around the world. |
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Post by chernjam on Jul 30, 2020 16:16:31 GMT
My quick take - CM was more than happy to give the whiff that "the original production was done" so that people who (accurately) point out that Les Miz is not the longest running since it's changed in multiples ways and fashions would be silenced. The RUG explanation makes a hell of a lot of sense. With 8 shows per week for over 3 decades I had often wondered how they kept maintaining and fixing the set. Let alone maintenance on the theater itself. It sounds like with this 4 month shut down, as they started to categorize everything that needs to be done, they realized exactly how much work needed to be done and that it's going to be a bit more extensive (so do they shut down everything, renovate the theater and re-build all the sets or keep trying to piece-meal it) Just for a fun debate - Wonder if ALW were to buy out CM as a producer if that changes it from being the original production  ? |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 30, 2020 16:27:55 GMT
it talks about parts of the set "having already been decommissioned". I think that is a reference to the Angel. I can only hope they intend to replace it with a new one if what was there was no longer functioning, it's not as if it can't be manufactured. They could end up replacing it with a new one, they probably still have the cash to do so. And like you said, they've sculptured these things for various productions of Phantom. I'm repeating myself here, but all we can do is wait and see for ourselves whether or not it's exactly the original, or with noticeable differences/alterations. |
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