5,160 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 29, 2020 11:24:43 GMT
Describing ALW and CM as lifelong collaborators is, I think, stretching it a little.
In his memoir, apart from a brief mention at the very beginning, ALW's doesn't get to CM until page 305...out of 487. ALW was already hot property when they first started working together; CM had been (mis)using Arts Council funding on the pretext of bringing high-quality touring shows to the regions. "He beamingly described this as a brilliant wheeze."
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Post by 10642 on Jul 29, 2020 11:29:16 GMT
Looking forward to the next live streamed musical hit depicting CM and ALW arguing about Phantom via zoom
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2020 11:46:45 GMT
Before anyone gets too excited over ALW's latest tweet, I think it's worth noting that ALW himself told Michael Riedel of the New York Post when lockdown started that there were "huge plans to rebrand and refresh" the Broadway production. My suspicion is the dismantling of the original was in the planning by Cameron Mackintosh (and possibly RUG) for some time; they were just waiting for the right time (i.e. wait for the powerful creatives, particularly Hal Prince, to pass away).
I understand they wheeled out Sierra Boggess last night on BBC News since neither billionaire co-producer wanted to say anything. Don't know what she said, though, but I suspect she was told what to say.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2020 11:50:52 GMT
Describing ALW and CM as lifelong collaborators is, I think, stretching it a little. In his memoir, apart from a brief mention at the very beginning, ALW's doesn't get to CM until page 305...out of 487. ALW was already hot property when they first started working together; CM had been (mis)using Arts Council funding on the pretext of bringing high-quality touring shows to the regions. "He beamingly described this as a brilliant wheeze." Supposedly their first meeting was a disaster at the SWET awards when Evita won in 1978 (ALW made a comment about how badly organised it was, but the organiser was CM!).
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520 posts
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Post by anthony on Jul 29, 2020 11:55:06 GMT
ALW and CM are lifelong collaborators. I’d be astonished if they weren’t both on exactly the same page with this, regardless of what PR spin they’re choosing to put on it. I'm not sure what kind of PR spin CM would agree to in which he is seen as the villain? It's a very, very odd decision? I think this "beef" is genuine - for Webber to come out in disagreement with CM so publically twice in a few weeks, in which ALW is on the side of the fans seems pretty... unscripted. Saying that, I do think ALW is trying to play the "angel" card here... his tweet is very carefully worded and actually gives no reassurances about the future of the show.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 12:08:10 GMT
This whole affair could be alleviated with a simple press statement, clearly explaining the plans. The fact there hasn't been one clearly indicates there's a conflict of intentions.
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5,160 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 29, 2020 12:12:48 GMT
I understand they wheeled out Sierra Boggess last night on BBC News since neither billionaire co-producer wanted to say anything. Don't know what she said, though, but I suspect she was told what to say. When my bad back wakes me in the middle of the night, I switch on the World Service for a while. When I did this last night, by chance it was Sierra Boggess talking about the announcement, from Mars, I think, judging by the quality of the line. "Deeply saddened... Tragic... Two incredibly generous humans... Absolutely devastating..." You get the idea. Only one namecheck for ALW, from what I remember, but she was very gushing about CM.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2020 12:24:01 GMT
I understand they wheeled out Sierra Boggess last night on BBC News since neither billionaire co-producer wanted to say anything. Don't know what she said, though, but I suspect she was told what to say. When my bad back wakes me in the middle of the night, I switch on the World Service for a while. When I did this last night, by chance it was Sierra Boggess talking about the announcement, from Mars, I think, judging by the quality of the line. "Deeply saddened... Tragic... Two incredibly generous humans... Absolutely devastating..." You get the idea. Only one namecheck for ALW, from what I remember, but she was very gushing about CM. Found it on Twitter. A bland statement as expected, and one which heaped praise on Cameron Mackintosh and urged for financial support...to a billionaire producer.
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627 posts
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Post by chernjam on Jul 29, 2020 12:43:53 GMT
I think we’re all gonna need a big bucket of popcorn for this one!!! Totally agree with you Steve... It's been a long long time since we've seen a CM - ALW "debate". They've played nice in recent years celebrations for POTO and other things, but if they were such great collaborators, then CM would still be producing ALW works. It was part of what frustrated ALW was that after POTO, financially he didn't have a hit again (maybe Aspects made its money back in London) but that almost everything after was nowhere near that - giving CM some bragging rights. And that CM seemed to favor Les Miz over POTO probably didnt go over well either
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Post by westendboy on Jul 29, 2020 12:48:54 GMT
Am I missing something here or is someone a bit confused? Either that or someone's taking the piss
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849 posts
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Post by duncan on Jul 29, 2020 13:05:10 GMT
This whole affair could be alleviated with a simple press statement, clearly explaining the plans. The fact there hasn't been one clearly indicates there's a conflict of intentions. Or it indicates that most successful people know that they dont need to conduct business in full glare of the public.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 13:28:32 GMT
This whole affair could be alleviated with a simple press statement, clearly explaining the plans. The fact there hasn't been one clearly indicates there's a conflict of intentions. Or it indicates that most successful people know that they dont need to conduct business in full glare of the public. Hardly. CM was quite transparent about the happenings around Les Miserables. At this point the public know nothing about whats really going to return to HMT, if anything at all.
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Post by 49thand8th on Jul 29, 2020 14:50:17 GMT
When my bad back wakes me in the middle of the night, I switch on the World Service for a while. When I did this last night, by chance it was Sierra Boggess talking about the announcement, from Mars, I think, judging by the quality of the line. "Deeply saddened... Tragic... Two incredibly generous humans... Absolutely devastating..." You get the idea. Only one namecheck for ALW, from what I remember, but she was very gushing about CM. Found it on Twitter. A bland statement as expected, and one which heaped praise on Cameron Mackintosh and urged for financial support...to a billionaire producer.
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19,797 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 29, 2020 14:53:05 GMT
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2020 15:12:46 GMT
I think we’re all gonna need a big bucket of popcorn for this one!!! Totally agree with you Steve... It's been a long long time since we've seen a CM - ALW "debate". They've played nice in recent years celebrations for POTO and other things, but if they were such great collaborators, then CM would still be producing ALW works. It was part of what frustrated ALW was that after POTO, financially he didn't have a hit again (maybe Aspects made its money back in London) but that almost everything after was nowhere near that - giving CM some bragging rights. And that CM seemed to favor Les Miz over POTO probably didnt go over well either Publicly Mackintosh said he didn't want to produce with RUG after Phantom because he didn't want to work with another conglomerate (though that's exactly what he did for Poppins). I think he was interested in Aspects but he was too busy with Miss Saigon that year. There was some strange to-ing and fro-ing between the two then: originally Nick Hytner was supposed to direct Aspects, and Nunn Saigon. Nunn wanted to do both (I wonder why...) but Mackintosh ruled that out, which led to a falling out between the two that I don't think they ever quite recovered from. Back in the early 2000s there was a lot of publicity about Mackintosh and ALW collaborating again to co-produce the Michael Grandage revival Evita, which is apparently Mackintosh's favourite ALW score. Then, quietly, there was an announcement in Variety in 2005 that Mackintosh was no longer attached to the project. I don't know if that's because he felt he had too much on his hands with rolling out Poppins, or whether there were other reasons...
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1,972 posts
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Post by sf on Jul 29, 2020 15:12:57 GMT
"Leaner" Smaller orchestra, smaller cast, scaled-down set, same ticket prices.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 15:13:26 GMT
"leaner"
edit, point made above.
Lean, less the fat. It's a black box production already.
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7,192 posts
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Post by Jon on Jul 29, 2020 16:40:11 GMT
Publicly Mackintosh said he didn't want to produce with RUG after Phantom because he didn't want to work with another conglomerate (though that's exactly what he did for Poppins). I think he was interested in Aspects but he was too busy with Miss Saigon that year. There was some strange to-ing and fro-ing between the two then: originally Nick Hytner was supposed to direct Aspects, and Nunn Saigon. Nunn wanted to do both (I wonder why...) but Mackintosh ruled that out, which led to a falling out between the two that I don't think they ever quite recovered from. Back in the early 2000s there was a lot of publicity about Mackintosh and ALW collaborating again to co-produce the Michael Grandage revival Evita, which is apparently Mackintosh's favourite ALW score. Then, quietly, there was an announcement in Variety in 2005 that Mackintosh was no longer attached to the project. I don't know if that's because he felt he had too much on his hands with rolling out Poppins, or whether there were other reasons... Poppins wasn't his only co-production after Phantom, Oliver! is jointly owned by him and the Southbrook Group and the tours of Barnum, My Fair Lady etc had co-producers
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 17:27:37 GMT
Just curious as it is Webber's musical can he pull the rights from Macintosh? Or does Macintosh have a stake in the copyright?
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Post by firefingers on Jul 29, 2020 18:53:54 GMT
Just curious as it is Webber's musical can he pull the rights from Macintosh? Or does Macintosh have a stake in the copyright? I was wondering this, but know very little about that side of it. Did CamMac get the rights in perpetuity? Does he have an extension clause so he can always extend without objection? And does he have to actually produce the show or can he hold on to a closed show forever? Because if ALW can get the rights back, he could do what he wanted. He even owns the theatre it is usually in. Do a proper clean up and updating and go it alone, produced by RUG/LW theatres solo. But I don't know enough about how the rights are likely to work.
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7,192 posts
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Post by Jon on Jul 29, 2020 19:06:21 GMT
I wonder why Cats despite being co-produced by Cameron Mackintosh has remained under RUG's control? The most recent productions both on tour and at the Palladium were produced by David Ian which I guess was licensed by RUG.
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Post by Theatre Fan on Jul 29, 2020 19:20:10 GMT
Just curious as it is Webber's musical can he pull the rights from Macintosh? Or does Macintosh have a stake in the copyright? I was wondering this, but know very little about that side of it. Did CamMac get the rights in perpetuity? Does he have an extension clause so he can always extend without objection? And does he have to actually produce the show or can he hold on to a closed show forever? Because if ALW can get the rights back, he could do what he wanted. He even owns the theatre it is usually in. Do a proper clean up and updating and go it alone, produced by RUG/LW theatres solo. But I don't know enough about how the rights are likely to work. Apparently Cam Mack owns all the rights, ALW has some legal rights but it's Cameron's show. Apparently a bone of contention for many years x
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2020 20:17:56 GMT
I was wondering this, but know very little about that side of it. Did CamMac get the rights in perpetuity? Does he have an extension clause so he can always extend without objection? And does he have to actually produce the show or can he hold on to a closed show forever? Because if ALW can get the rights back, he could do what he wanted. He even owns the theatre it is usually in. Do a proper clean up and updating and go it alone, produced by RUG/LW theatres solo. But I don't know enough about how the rights are likely to work. Apparently Cam Mack owns all the rights, ALW has some legal rights but it's Cameron's show. Apparently a bone of contention for many years x That's definitely not right. Cameron only has production rights in the UK, US and Australasia. It's why RUG is always the co-producer in every other territory where there is a replica production, not Mackintosh.
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Post by Theatre Fan on Jul 29, 2020 20:39:15 GMT
Apparently Cam Mack owns all the rights, ALW has some legal rights but it's Cameron's show. Apparently a bone of contention for many years x That's definitely not right. Cameron only has production rights in the UK, US and Australasia. It's why RUG is always the co-producer in every other territory where there is a replica production, not Mackintosh. Mebbe they were referring to the UK rights. That info was from a former cast member. Who knows then? X
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Post by 10642 on Jul 29, 2020 20:46:49 GMT
I believe within the UK Cameron has the controlling stake of the rights but ALW still has an artistic rubber stamp for casting decisions etc (he has to OK most new Phantoms and Christines). Outside of the UK, US and Aus ALW controls the rights through the Really Useful group eg the current World Tour
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