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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 19:07:10 GMT
He comes across as defeatist unlike Andrew Lloyd Webber who is spending his own money to prove the theatres can reopen. I guess this just shows that ALW cares more about the arts than Mackintosh ever will. Or, to look at it the other way, Cameron Mackintosh has more business common sense than Andrew Lloyd Webber ever will. Sad though that may be, theatre is a business like anything else. We can moan all we like about it (I have done elsewhere, I don't particularly see the fuss here), but at the end of the day economies of scale have to be exploited in order to keep shows running. Presumably you would all rather have some form of Phantom that keeps a large number of talented people employed and the songs being performed 8 shows a week than none at all? |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 19:12:49 GMT
I guess this just shows that ALW cares more about the arts than Mackintosh ever will. Or, to look at it the other way, Cameron Mackintosh has more business common sense than Andrew Lloyd Webber ever will. Sad though that may be, theatre is a business like anything else. We can moan all we like about it (I have done elsewhere, I don't particularly see the fuss here), but at the end of the day economies of scale have to be exploited in order to keep shows running. Presumably you would all rather have some form of Phantom that keeps a large number of talented people employed and the songs being performed 8 shows a week than none at all? Not necessarily. Hal Prince said you should only do revivals if they are as good as, if not better than, the originals. If they can't do that, then employ the talented people in a different show at the theatre, rather than cheapen the older show's legacy. |
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Jul 28, 2020 19:17:25 GMT
Or, to look at it the other way, Cameron Mackintosh has more business common sense than Andrew Lloyd Webber ever will. Sad though that may be, theatre is a business like anything else. We can moan all we like about it (I have done elsewhere, I don't particularly see the fuss here), but at the end of the day economies of scale have to be exploited in order to keep shows running. Presumably you would all rather have some form of Phantom that keeps a large number of talented people employed and the songs being performed 8 shows a week than none at all? Not necessarily. Hal Prince said you should only do revivals if they are as good as, if not better than, the originals. If they can't do that, then employ the talented people in a different show at the theatre, rather than cheapen the older show's legacy. I may be stating an obvious point here (not patronising you at all) but casting is challenging at the best of times. If a different show was produced - a new show shouldn’t have to FIT the existing cast. It’s not drama school and adapting for graduate students. (I hope I’m articulating myself well! ) |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 19:17:53 GMT
What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business? It's almost as if he's trying to take the heat off himself. Sure there are plenty of things that the government should be taken into account for their handling of the pandemic, but it's not their fault that there has to be social distancing in theatres. This is how I read the article; "Oh no, socially distanced audiences won't bring me millions of pounds. I'll just close down Phantom to save myself some cash" It was a weird article. And God, the whole 'let's call the PM by his first name and compare him to Churchill to flatter him' was almost too much... |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 28, 2020 19:19:24 GMT
Not necessarily. Hal Prince said you should only do revivals if they are as good as, if not better than, the originals. If they can't do that, then employ the talented people in a different show at the theatre, rather than cheapen the older show's legacy. I may be stating an obvious point here (not patronising you at all) but casting is challenging at the best of times. If a different show was produced - a new show shouldn’t have to FIT the existing cast. It’s not drama school and adapting for graduate students. (I hope I’m articulating myself well! ) That's not what I was suggesting. The cast are talented to have made it to Phantom. Any closure is bad news employment-wise but I would rather they auditioned for other shows and other roles rather than have Phantom cheapened. The audience deserves the best it can possibly get, especially at prices charged these days by billionaire producers. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 28, 2020 19:20:33 GMT
Or, to look at it the other way, Cameron Mackintosh has more business common sense than Andrew Lloyd Webber ever will.
Sad though that may be, theatre is a business like anything else. We can moan all we like about it (I have done elsewhere, I don't particularly see the fuss here), but at the end of the day economies of scale have to be exploited in order to keep shows running. Presumably you would all rather have some form of Phantom that keeps a large number of talented people employed and the songs being performed 8 shows a week than none at all? Sunset Boulevard is the textbook example of how not to produce a successful show! |
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Jul 28, 2020 19:21:32 GMT
I may be stating an obvious point here (not patronising you at all) but casting is challenging at the best of times. If a different show was produced - a new show shouldn’t have to FIT the existing cast. It’s not drama school and adapting for graduate students. (I hope I’m articulating myself well! ) That's not what I was suggesting. The cast are talented to have made it to Phantom. Any closure is bad news employment-wise but I would rather they auditioned for other shows and other roles rather than have Phantom cheapened. The audience deserves the best it can possibly get, especially at prices charged these days by billionaire producers. Maybe a show in the same vein as Phantom, classical MT wise? That could work! |
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Post by 49thand8th on Jul 28, 2020 19:30:03 GMT
Reading the actual article in the Evening Standard it does't come across as "It's gone forever". Which is a good reminder: BroadwayWorld rarely has any of their own original reporting anymore. Always read the source. |
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Post by sf on Jul 28, 2020 20:45:48 GMT
Reading the actual article in the Evening Standard it does't come across as "It's gone forever". To me it reads as more of a legal repositioning to put everything in a known state rather than have it all suspended in uncertainty. But he doesn't half come across as petulant. What does he expect the government to do? Take away the virus and replace it with a more convenient one that's better suited to the needs of his business?
He reminded me of a line from Rita Rudner's ancient BBC sketch show.
"I want to be rich. Really rich. Some people get so rich they lose all respect for humanity. That's how rich I want to be."
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Post by basdfg on Jul 28, 2020 20:51:45 GMT
The article even mentions how they determined to return it to London in the future.
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Post by TheatreTwittic on Jul 28, 2020 21:01:43 GMT
I'd rather no Phantom and instead a new production, compared a rehash of Phantom that damages the future of the industry. These productions aren't museum pieces, I get that. But cost cutting for the sake of cost cutting can't be a new normal. I think the industry and audiences need to come together to stop the cheapening of productions. Ticket prices aren't dropping, they're increasing. Yet costs go run shows like less mis is dropping. Who's benefitting? Not audiences. Not creatives. Not performers. Theatre is a business, but that doesn't mean audiences will be stand off being ripped off. What's next? A panto that can't afford a dame? Wicked without Elphana's make up? The Lion King with sock puppets? <abbr data-timestamp="1595963230000" title="Jul 28, 2020 20:07:10 GMT 1" class="o-timestamp time" style="font-size: 10pt;"> If we want people to pay up to £25O a ticket, they need more than a tiny orchestra and some minimalist set backed up by screens and projection.
I love new technology in Theatre design, but it shouldn't be used as a cost cutting exercise.
, 2020 20:07:10 GMT 1</abbr> poster J said:I guess this just shows that ALW cares more about the arts than Mackintosh ever will. Or, to look at it the other way, Cameron Mackintosh has more business common sense than Andrew Lloyd Webber ever will. Sad though that may be, theatre is a business like anything else. We can moan all we like about it (I have done elsewhere, I don't particularly see the fuss here), but at the end of the day economies of scale have to be exploited in order to keep shows running. Presumably you would all rather have some form of Phantom that keeps a large number of talented people employed and the songs being performed 8 shows a week than none at all? |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 28, 2020 21:02:39 GMT
Don’t believe a word of it, they said with Cats “Now and Forever.”
That is plainly untrue.
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Post by westlondon on Jul 28, 2020 21:18:48 GMT
Looking back through this thread there seems to have been long periods of time where no one has posted a single thing about the show. I’m really gutted at the announcement today but I also feel a bit guilty that I’ve taken the show for granted over the years. Now that it’s closing I just wish I’d shown it a bit more love...
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Post by David J on Jul 28, 2020 22:36:42 GMT
But as for bringing this touring version in, didn't they do something similar when Les Mis moved from the Palace to the Queens, by using a set used for a touring version and with some revisions made to the staging and choreography? Yet people did still refer to it as the original? Unless the original creatives (Trevor Nunn, John Caird, John Napier, etc) were involved? I never saw the Palace production but the Queens version, the touring set design and direction as you say, is generally the same as what was envisaged by the original team. Just on a smaller scale with I'm sure people here can point out some tweaks here and there and additions like the proscenium. If the 2020 touring Phantom set is being brought in at least that is closer to the original than the current Les Mis set is. Last year I said that to my mind Les Mis will loose its longest running musical by this October. Now I'd say every long running show in London and Broadway should start all over again after this pandemic. Cameron can say all he likes that Les Mis and Phantom are still running in 10 to 20 years from now whilst pretending they are still what was envisaged from the start, this long gap does not count. At least Les Mis can now keep its title for roughly the next 34 years and not be overtaken by shows like Mamma Mia. |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 28, 2020 23:52:43 GMT
At least Les Mis can now keep its title for roughly the next 34 years and not be overtaken by shows like Mamma Mia. Just the thought of Les Mis and Phantom being overtaken by Mamma Mia is disturbing... |
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Post by chernjam on Jul 29, 2020 3:53:27 GMT
Looking back through this thread there seems to have been long periods of time where no one has posted a single thing about the show. I’m really gutted at the announcement today but I also feel a bit guilty that I’ve taken the show for granted over the years. Now that it’s closing I just wish I’d shown it a bit more love... Honestly, I've been saying I need to get into NYC to see Phantom (which is only 15 miles away for me) for years... And now a scan in my memory, I can't believe it's been 23 years since I last saw Phantom (I was then addicted to Sunset - which I've seen at least 15 times in the original and revival since) But for my Mom, Phantom has always been her favorite and I had promised her once Broadway re opened, we would go to see it again. That it would simply close because of COVID - not to be conspiratorial - but feels more opportunistic then anything right now to me. CM been looking to make it more profitable for years. All your stories of it remaining "sold out" just months ago probably bothered him it wasn't turning bigger profits right now compared to a Hamilton which being sold out probably has lower running costs. Not surprised... saddened, but not surprised And whoever mentioned that this is the best PR move they could've done to make it a sell out once whatever reopens - don't doubt that either |
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Post by Theatrefan48 on Jul 29, 2020 6:26:52 GMT
I don't know the details as to who owns the majority share of Phantom (I assume CM) but I think he has simply played a blinder of a PR stunt here and probably just wants to put phantom into one of his own theatres rather than keep in in a LW Theatre, that way he will have even more control over the show. I would be surprised if its not back by some time in 2022. To be fair, it was all rather creaky at Her Majesty's! Having seen the recent tour, it looked anything but cheap so if that's anything to go by, I'm feeling quite positive about the future of the show. Also, it might clear the way for a nice revival of another classic LW show at HM. What would people like to see? Stephen Ward? Woman in white? The likes of us?
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Post by Deal J on Jul 29, 2020 8:05:51 GMT
"Her Majesty's" to be re-branded as "Her Majesties", with SIX in residence...?  |
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Post by CG on the loose on Jul 29, 2020 10:09:26 GMT
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 29, 2020 10:10:19 GMT
I think we’re all gonna need a big bucket of popcorn for this one!!! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 29, 2020 10:21:55 GMT
ALW and CM are lifelong collaborators. I’d be astonished if they weren’t both on exactly the same page with this, regardless of what PR spin they’re choosing to put on it.
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 29, 2020 10:39:19 GMT
ALW and CM are lifelong collaborators. I’d be astonished if they weren’t both on exactly the same page with this, regardless of what PR spin they’re choosing to put on it. Because historically they’ve always been such good friends... |
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Post by woobl on Jul 29, 2020 10:51:46 GMT
Clever move on CM's part. Now that the director and designer are out the way, save some money by closing an expensive production during a global disaster and then get your lapdog LC in to put up a cheaper production both in costs and royalties. Win Win.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Jul 29, 2020 10:52:25 GMT
"Her Majesty's" to be re-branded as "Her Majesties", with SIX in residence...? clever! |
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