|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 6:40:24 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Aug 8, 2019 6:40:24 GMT
At party political level, accepting or rejecting the austerity narrative has been a choice for some years now (example: Theresa May's 'magic money tree' vs. Labour's 2017 GE manifesto)
|
|
952 posts
|
Post by vdcni on Aug 8, 2019 7:32:33 GMT
So Boris Johnson - a man who has regularly used racist and homophobic language is a social liberal, whatever.
|
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 8:45:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 8:45:45 GMT
At party political level, accepting or rejecting the austerity narrative has been a choice for some years now (example: Theresa May's 'magic money tree' vs. Labour's 2017 GE manifesto) This is nothing to do with austerity. This is pure electoral bribery at a time when greater fiscal prudence will be required. It’s enticing people with trinkets now in advance of even greater austerity later. Populists are dangerous, dangerous people, whether right or left. |
|
2,763 posts
|
Post by n1david on Aug 8, 2019 10:32:00 GMT
If the government (not just ours, worldwide) had got a handle on e-commerce far more quickly, tax money would be there rather than in the hands of Amazon and Google. Also a chance we would still have a worthwhile retail sector. Absolutely right. What a shame that our new friends in the US say there won't be any trade deal unless we give up our attempts to tax American tech companies in the UK. |
|
4,156 posts
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 10:43:24 GMT
Post by kathryn on Aug 8, 2019 10:43:24 GMT
If the government (not just ours, worldwide) had got a handle on e-commerce far more quickly, tax money would be there rather than in the hands of Amazon and Google. Also a chance we would still have a worthwhile retail sector. This is the problem when legislatures are dominated by older people who can't keep pace with change - they're too busy still fighting yesterday's battles to see what tomorrow's problems will be. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 11:16:09 GMT
If the government (not just ours, worldwide) had got a handle on e-commerce far more quickly, tax money would be there rather than in the hands of Amazon and Google. Also a chance we would still have a worthwhile retail sector. Absolutely right. What a shame that our new friends in the US say there won't be any trade deal unless we give up our attempts to tax American tech companies in the UK. It's 1984 - 'take back control' actually meant giving away control, away from pooling it with an organisation that we are a part of to giving it to countries that have nothing to do with us who won't give a damn about bleeding us dry. Whatever it takes to stop this, whatever it takes. |
|
1,972 posts
|
Post by sf on Aug 8, 2019 11:47:32 GMT
Absolutely right. What a shame that our new friends in the US say there won't be any trade deal unless we give up our attempts to tax American tech companies in the UK. It's 1984 - 'take back control' actually meant giving away control, away from pooling it with an organisation that we are a part of to giving it to countries that have nothing to do with us who won't give a damn about bleeding us dry. Whatever it takes to stop this, whatever it takes.
And of course it was obvious from the beginning - at least, to anyone paying attention - that "taking back control" would mean giving up our seat at the top table, and that a Leave result would turn us into rule-takers at best, and prey for unscrupulous vultures at worst.
|
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 12:16:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 12:16:26 GMT
Essentially, the UK to the EU is like Mexico to the US. The only difference is which side the bigoted halfwit is on.
|
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 12:34:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 12:34:04 GMT
So Boris Johnson - a man who has regularly used racist and homophobic language is a social liberal, whatever. Listened to the Opposition recently? |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 12:36:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 12:36:45 GMT
Essentially, the UK to the EU is like Mexico to the US. The only difference is which side the bigoted halfwit is on. No halfwits with unfortunate views in the EU?! Truly it is a paradise. |
|
952 posts
|
Post by vdcni on Aug 8, 2019 12:59:12 GMT
So Boris Johnson - a man who has regularly used racist and homophobic language is a social liberal, whatever. Listened to the Opposition recently? Did I say anything positive about them or did you have an actual point to make. |
|
2,763 posts
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 13:11:46 GMT
sf likes this
Post by n1david on Aug 8, 2019 13:11:46 GMT
Essentially, the UK to the EU is like Mexico to the US. The only difference is which side the bigoted halfwit is on. No halfwits with unfortunate views in the EU?! Truly it is a paradise. I'd rather have a bigoted halfwit on my side where I have the chance to moderate them than trying to negotiate a new trade deal with one. |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 18:04:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 18:04:13 GMT
Listened to the Opposition recently? Did I say anything positive about them or did you have an actual point to make. Just taking a sad but realistic look at our political choices these days! |
|
2,342 posts
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 18:04:59 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Aug 8, 2019 18:04:59 GMT
Essentially, the UK to the EU is like Mexico to the US. The only difference is which side the bigoted halfwit is on. No halfwits with unfortunate views in the EU?! Truly it is a paradise. Feel your pain down the keyboard |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 18:16:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 18:16:49 GMT
No halfwits with unfortunate views in the EU?! Truly it is a paradise. I'd rather have a bigoted halfwit on my side That’s good then, because it’s precisely what Johnson is trying to do. The thing really damaging the country at the moment is the uncertainty. No deal ain’t great but it certainly gives us certainty. And with certainty you can plan. Despite their bleating about wanting control over the process, our elected representatives (many of whom were voted in on a ‘we’ll deliver Brexit’ platform) singularly failed to achieve anything except cause further chaos and consternation. I’ve known two year olds who have a better grasp of how to compromise. We need to leave - with a deal if possible, though that’s certainly looking dodgy right now - and then deal with the fallout. If people don’t trust the Tories to deliver on that, there will be an election soon enough and they can vote in a delightful combo of the current crop in Labour and the SNP. Then we really will have cause to start weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 18:25:45 GMT
they can vote in a delightful combo of the current crop in Labour and the SNP. Then we really will have cause to start weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth. Or celebrating, because even though they are also dreadful they at least have the sense to understand that a no deal Brexit is disastrous on every level... And also the idea that Boris is trying to compromise better than those who went before him is laughable - we are in this mess because the Tories seem to have an over-inflated sense of the UK's entitlement and importance. We are the ones who are exiting a contract, we are the ones who pay the penalty. The EU owes us nothing and is perfectly entitled not to budge. Boris and everyone else involved in the negotiations seems to think we can have our cake and eat it, which is ludicrous. Theresa May can be criticised for many things, but at least she knew that we would have to compromise very severely in order to get any form of deal. It's not her fault her party is too self-importance to realise that, and that sense of self-importance has led them to elect a leader whose strategy seems to be to make the whole thing even worse, not better. |
|
952 posts
|
Post by vdcni on Aug 8, 2019 19:28:41 GMT
How is No Deal certainty, the only certain thing about it is it will be a mess and take years to sort out
|
|
2,763 posts
|
Post by n1david on Aug 8, 2019 20:25:26 GMT
I'd rather have a bigoted halfwit on my side That’s good then, because it’s precisely what Johnson is trying to do. The thing really damaging the country at the moment is the uncertainty. No deal ain’t great but it certainly gives us certainty. And with certainty you can plan. Despite their bleating about wanting control over the process, our elected representatives (many of whom were voted in on a ‘we’ll deliver Brexit’ platform) singularly failed to achieve anything except cause further chaos and consternation. I’ve known two year olds who have a better grasp of how to compromise. We need to leave - with a deal if possible, though that’s certainly looking dodgy right now - and then deal with the fallout. If people don’t trust the Tories to deliver on that, there will be an election soon enough and they can vote in a delightful combo of the current crop in Labour and the SNP. Then we really will have cause to start weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth. Firstly: if you are quoting me, do not cut my sentence in half so that you lose the context of what I am saying in order to make it look like I am agreeing with you. You're right. The country needs certainty. No Deal is not certainty. If it was, why would be having these discussions now about whether we will all be starving or there will be a land of milk and honey on November 1. Here's an interesting story from the BBC: the Government now reckons that the disruption at Channel ports will be less than expected. The M20 and lorry parks will take a fortnight to fill up rather than the 2-3 days assumed last year. How have they determined this? Is it down to careful precautionary negotiations with the French Government about how they will police lorries coming to the UK? No. The Government has looked at satellite photos "to estimate the potential for holding and processing facilities around French ports." and made "assumptions" about what they see. Well, that's great. "Certainty" apparently means looking at satellite photos and guessing how many lorries the facilities will hold. Story here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49270872When Brexit happens, we then have to start negotiating new trade deals. I think there's a bigoted halfwit as US President, you may think there are bigoted halfwits in the EU. Both or neither may be true. But I'd still not fancy my chances getting a good long-term trade deal if I had to negotiate with a bigoted half-wit in either location. But to return to my main point: don't chop my sentence in half to destroy the context in order to make it look like I'm agreeing with you. |
|
722 posts
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 22:47:46 GMT
Post by hulmeman on Aug 8, 2019 22:47:46 GMT
Tinned tomatoes. They come almost exclusively from Italy. I'm stockpiling them. Boris isn't going to stop me enjoying the bolognaise sauce I have perfected over decades.
|
|
999 posts
|
Post by Backdrifter on Aug 8, 2019 22:51:21 GMT
Listened to the Opposition recently? There's an Opposition? |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 8, 2019 22:55:45 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Aug 8, 2019 22:55:45 GMT
Essentially, the UK to the EU is like Mexico to the US. The only difference is which side the bigoted halfwit is on. No halfwits with unfortunate views in the EU?! Truly it is a paradise. I know a writer slightly who has a phrase for this that captures a certain sensibility: the Empire of Virtue.
|
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 9, 2019 7:09:32 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 7:09:32 GMT
How is No Deal certainty, the only certain thing about it is it will be a mess and take years to sort out Because at least we know what we’re dealing with and what we need to sort out. At the moment, we’re wibbling about between no deal, stop the whole thing altogether, maybe vote down the PM/government and install a new one that, so far as I can tell, has no viable plan to deal with it all. Uncertainty is crippling business decisions, the housing market, and so on. I’m not saying no deal would be reason for a big party. But at least the government, the country and third parties seeking deals/thinking of investing in the country will know what the heck they’re dealing with. |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 9, 2019 7:15:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 7:15:28 GMT
they can vote in a delightful combo of the current crop in Labour and the SNP. Then we really will have cause to start weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth. Or celebrating, because even though they are also dreadful they at least have the sense to understand that a no deal Brexit is disastrous on every level... And also the idea that Boris is trying to compromise better than those who went before him is laughable - we are in this mess because the Tories seem to have an over-inflated sense of the UK's entitlement and importance. We are the ones who are exiting a contract, we are the ones who pay the penalty. The EU owes us nothing and is perfectly entitled not to budge. Boris and everyone else involved in the negotiations seems to think we can have our cake and eat it, which is ludicrous. Theresa May can be criticised for many things, but at least she knew that we would have to compromise very severely in order to get any form of deal. It's not her fault her party is too self-importance to realise that, and that sense of self-importance has led them to elect a leader whose strategy seems to be to make the whole thing even worse, not better. Agree with you on May’s compromise; agree also Boris isn’t much for compromise. That wasn’t my point - rather it was that, having tried compromise and seen it fail, he is now taking a firm grip on the problem and driving towards a solution. Any manager worth their salt would do the same. I’m curious - do you honestly think Corbyn is anti no deal? To me it’s pretty clear he’s secretly hoping it will go through - you’ve only to look at the delayed decisions and flip flopping. But I know others genuinely feel differently. |
|
|
|
Brexit
Aug 9, 2019 7:27:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 7:27:31 GMT
That’s good then, because it’s precisely what Johnson is trying to do. The thing really damaging the country at the moment is the uncertainty. No deal ain’t great but it certainly gives us certainty. And with certainty you can plan. Despite their bleating about wanting control over the process, our elected representatives (many of whom were voted in on a ‘we’ll deliver Brexit’ platform) singularly failed to achieve anything except cause further chaos and consternation. I’ve known two year olds who have a better grasp of how to compromise. We need to leave - with a deal if possible, though that’s certainly looking dodgy right now - and then deal with the fallout. If people don’t trust the Tories to deliver on that, there will be an election soon enough and they can vote in a delightful combo of the current crop in Labour and the SNP. Then we really will have cause to start weeping, wailing and gnashing our teeth. Firstly: if you are quoting me, do not cut my sentence in half so that you lose the context of what I am saying in order to make it look like I am agreeing with you. You're right. The country needs certainty. No Deal is not certainty. If it was, why would be having these discussions now about whether we will all be starving or there will be a land of milk and honey on November 1. Here's an interesting story from the BBC: the Government now reckons that the disruption at Channel ports will be less than expected. The M20 and lorry parks will take a fortnight to fill up rather than the 2-3 days assumed last year. How have they determined this? Is it down to careful precautionary negotiations with the French Government about how they will police lorries coming to the UK? No. The Government has looked at satellite photos "to estimate the potential for holding and processing facilities around French ports." and made "assumptions" about what they see. Well, that's great. "Certainty" apparently means looking at satellite photos and guessing how many lorries the facilities will hold. Story here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49270872When Brexit happens, we then have to start negotiating new trade deals. I think there's a bigoted halfwit as US President, you may think there are bigoted halfwits in the EU. Both or neither may be true. But I'd still not fancy my chances getting a good long-term trade deal if I had to negotiate with a bigoted half-wit in either location. But to return to my main point: don't chop my sentence in half to destroy the context in order to make it look like I'm agreeing with you. That’s not what I was doing. I was debating you. I thought that was pretty clear from what I went on to say. |
|
952 posts
|
Post by vdcni on Aug 9, 2019 7:48:38 GMT
So we will know we're in the sh*t rather than just think we're going to be - what a great move forward.
Theresa May never tried to compromise, she dismissed everyone who voted remain, invented red lines claiming that's what people voted leave for, and negotiated on those terms. Then when it was clear her deal wasn't going to be voted through she at first delayed putting it up for a vote and then ignored the most crushing defeat in Parliamentary history and sent it back to be voted down again.
Johnson is not driving forward, he's trying to shift blame onto the EU and blame them for the backstop even though it was our idea and he has suggested no credible way of going forward without it.
|
|
