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Brexit
Apr 6, 2019 17:14:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 17:14:13 GMT
So all in all, we should just leave with no deal and get on with sorting out the mess that creates. OK then. If it's THAT simple, what's your solution for the border in Ireland in a no-deal scenario? If we impose conditions that, under international law, make a hard border necessary, do we simply rip up the Good Friday Agreement? That is, do we rip up an international peace treaty that brought an end to a decades-long state of civil war in our own country? If we break away from alignment with the single market, what's your solution for the border with Gibraltar? These are not academic questions. These are things that affect real people, and the effect would be devastating. At least then we will all be united behind fixing the issues as quickly and as effectively as possible... and we need some sort of unity - a show of strength. "Unity"? If you want Scotland to vote to leave the Union and Northern Ireland to follow, a no-deal scenario is probably the quickest way to achieve it.
It’s all very well raising the questions, but you’re just doing what the MPs are all doing - raising objections to everything and offering no practical solution that achieves Brexit within the legal framework. We are scheduled to leave on 12th April and we have no deal. I can raise all the questions and objections in the world too but what does that achieve? MPs are still waiting for this mythical solution to just appear and there isn’t one to be had. A whole bunch of ways to leave the EU were debated and voted on by MPs and not a single alternative was approved as a way forward. If we are rejecting EVERY single way forward - including a referendum - then the only route is no deal. As I said, it’s a perverse view, but the only thing parliament has been able to agree on is that it doesn’t want to leave without a deal - if it’s the only thing the majority agree on then logically speaking, we should do exactly the opposite. It’s like taking your kids to the cinema, having them fight and argue in public over which movie to see, to the point you say ‘sod this’ and take them all home. Except in this scenario the kids have also vetoed going home as well, so now we’re just stood in the cinema foyer still arguing over which movie to see even though all of them have started. I don’t claim to have the answers, but you know, a bit of common sense needs to prevail. There is no happy Brexit. There is no easy Brexit. There is no perfect Brexit. But unless MPs realise that if they don’t compromise and support something, all of them will get nothing. My personal opinion is that after the mess they’ve made, we walk away from the EU with no-deal, hold an election, get a new parliament sorted and begin sorting everything out one step at a time. Yes it’ll be messy, but at least we can move forward. NB: Scotland and Northern Ireland won’t be leaving the union. No PM in their right mind will ever allow any of us a referendum ever again. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2019 18:00:22 GMT
To roll with the slightly specious cinema analogy, you could always play the mum card and Revoke Article Going To The Cinema. We've been doing just fine watching TV at home for decades and there's no shame in admitting that. And we're not saying we'll NEVER go to the cinema again, we're just saying the kids had damn well better plan what they want to see before we set foot out of doors. Alas though, the mum in this scenario is one of those parents who are so terrified that the kids won't want to be her friends anymore, she doesn't realise that pandering to their nonsense isn't the way to earn their respect...
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Post by vdcni on Apr 6, 2019 18:44:24 GMT
If we can't agree on a way to leave the EU then the only logical answer is to Revoke article 50 and not leave the EU.
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Post by sf on Apr 6, 2019 19:01:49 GMT
It’s all very well raising the questions, but you’re just doing what the MPs are all doing - raising objections to everything and offering no practical solution that achieves Brexit within the legal framework. We are scheduled to leave on 12th April and we have no deal. I can raise all the questions and objections in the world too but what does that achieve? In this case, it underscores my point, which is that there is NO "practical solution" to the border issue in Ireland outside the single market and the customs union that doesn't violate the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. We leave without a deal, we trample all over a peace treaty. |
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Brexit
Apr 6, 2019 19:49:34 GMT
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Post by karloscar on Apr 6, 2019 19:49:34 GMT
NB: Scotland and Northern Ireland won’t be leaving the union. No PM in their right mind will ever allow any of us a referendum ever again.
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Allow? ALLOW us to leave? You grossly overestimate the likely powers of any incoming PM. If either Scotland or Northern Ireland wish to escape from little Britain, they can't simply be forbidden from taking that decision. If there is sufficient support for such a move a unilateral declaration of independence can be made without any need for any referendum. And that will be much more likely after a no deal Brexit.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 6, 2019 19:52:23 GMT
The Good Friday Agreement has already set the precedence for Northern Ireland being separate to the mainland, the natural evolution of the Agreement is an United Ireland.
In Scotland and Northern Ireland it is the devolved Governments which will determine / call a referendum for leaving the Union and with the current standing of the UK Parliament the devolution of Scotland and Northern Ireland is highly likely in a no deal scenario
The UK Parliament has limited/no power to influence these Referenda and we are at a significant cross road for the breaking of the Union.
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Brexit
Apr 6, 2019 21:55:30 GMT
Post by sf on Apr 6, 2019 21:55:30 GMT
If either Scotland or Northern Ireland wish to escape from little Britain, they can't simply be forbidden from taking that decision. And if a future Prime Minister tried to go down that road, it would be a huge gift for the independence campaign. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 8:02:19 GMT
This is quite something
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Brexit
Apr 7, 2019 15:57:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 15:57:00 GMT
The Scottish Government want to do another referendum but I believe this has to be endorsed by the House of Commons, I don't think that the Government could just say yes to it.
Ruth Davidson has been talked about as a possible future leader of the Tory party and would have widespread appeal and probably able to tap into some voters who don't usually vote Tory. It did occur to me that with the likely by election coming up in Peterborough could she be a possible Tory candidate there and then be a possible leadership option if she won the seat. But with her still being on maternity leave and going to resume a major role in Scottish politics I don't see her wanting to move south just yet.
If there was a general election in due course, no doubt her name would come up and a safe seat near to Westminster or in Scotland could well be offered to her.
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Brexit
Apr 7, 2019 19:09:17 GMT
Post by n1david on Apr 7, 2019 19:09:17 GMT
The Scottish Government want to do another referendum but I believe this has to be endorsed by the House of Commons, I don't think that the Government could just say yes to it. As it stands the Scottish Government could hold its own indicative referendum, but that wouldn’t have any statutory weight. However, in the event that a “Scottish UDI” referendum got a clear majority that might put serious pressure on Westminster. In Spain, when the same thing happened, the Spanish Government declared the Catalan referendum illegal, and it all got very messy with conflicting legal cases and Returning Officers subject to sanction, and election officers going to jail for participating in a referendum organised by the Catalan Government. But then, we’re so well organised here, that couldn’t happen in the UK... could it? |
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Brexit
Apr 8, 2019 23:05:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by karloscar on Apr 8, 2019 23:05:18 GMT
There's no safe Tory seat in Scotland, so if Ruth Davidson wants one she'd need to move down south. Maidenhead might be up for grabs very soon? She stated pretty clearly last year that she has zero interest in leading the Tory party, especially while the likes of Boris and Mogg are around, as she values her sanity too much. But never trust a Tory means you can't be sure she means what she said.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2019 0:36:51 GMT
If we can't agree on a way to leave the EU then the only logical answer is to Revoke article 50 and not leave the EU. One thing I have learned about Brexiters they’re very passionate people, sometimes too passionate. Thinking about this objectionable and I am a remainer, but do see both sides of the argument, by which I mean why people voted leave, if you cancelled article 50, there would be mass rioting on the streets, it would be a brave Prime Minister who suggests cancel article 50. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2019 0:39:12 GMT
It’s all very well raising the questions, but you’re just doing what the MPs are all doing - raising objections to everything and offering no practical solution that achieves Brexit within the legal framework. We are scheduled to leave on 12th April and we have no deal. I can raise all the questions and objections in the world too but what does that achieve? In this case, it underscores my point, which is that there is NO "practical solution" to the border issue in Ireland outside the single market and the customs union that doesn't violate the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. We leave without a deal, we trample all over a peace treaty. You could have Northern Ireland, governed from Dublin. |
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Brexit
Apr 10, 2019 22:57:48 GMT
Post by n1david on Apr 10, 2019 22:57:48 GMT
Oh goody, another six months.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 7:14:55 GMT
I don't want to get my hopes up and I shouldn't get my hopes up, but nonetheless, we have yet to see any compelling evidence to suggest that "just keep delaying it and delaying it and delaying it until such time as we can quietly let the whole thing drop and never speak of it again" *isn't* the official plan...
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Post by kathryn on Apr 11, 2019 8:51:38 GMT
Well, it worked with Leveson 2.
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Brexit
Apr 11, 2019 11:11:01 GMT
Post by crowblack on Apr 11, 2019 11:11:01 GMT
If those FBPE types had any sense they'd keep Blair, Campbell, Mandelson, Umunna, Adonis, 'I can't get a nanny' and 'my dog can't go skiing now' types under wraps and instead dwell on Macron's ambitions - he's clearly gagging for Britain to leave, a factor which might make the never-trusted-Germany element of Leave have a rethink, remember de Gaulle and Napoleon and stay just to p*ss him off.
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Post by Backdrifter on Apr 11, 2019 14:37:20 GMT
if you cancelled article 50, there would be mass rioting on the streets This is often threatened and I think there'd be unrest but not mass rioting. |
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Brexit
Apr 11, 2019 14:56:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 14:56:45 GMT
If you look at the size of the "we'd rather remain if that's still an option" marches vs the "we voted to leave so would be grateful if we could carry that out" marches, I think the people who are threatening to riot if Article 50 is revoked are all mouth, no trousers. Sure, there'd probably be some unrest, but that just seems to be part and parcel of living in the twenty first century tbh.
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Brexit
Apr 11, 2019 16:00:40 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Apr 11, 2019 16:00:40 GMT
Does that mean there be elections then?
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Brexit
Apr 11, 2019 17:01:23 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Apr 11, 2019 17:01:23 GMT
if you cancelled article 50, there would be mass rioting on the streets This is often threatened and I think there'd be unrest but not mass rioting. I thought that. Then I saw the mob in Trafalgar Square 29 March when we should have left. There will be riots |
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Post by Coated on Apr 12, 2019 3:33:01 GMT
if you cancelled article 50, there would be mass rioting on the streets This is often threatened and I think there'd be unrest but not mass rioting. There'll be at least 80 angry blokes in yellow vests and with those weird poundland flags. |
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Post by karloscar on Apr 12, 2019 10:49:54 GMT
Well Sky and the BBC are certainly giving Niggly Farago plenty of publicity for his new Brextremist party. Is Annunthiatica Rees Moggie the new Rachel Johnson... even more annoying than their sibling though you thought that was impossible?
How are folks gullible enough to vote for these charlatans?
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Post by Someone in a tree on Apr 12, 2019 11:39:48 GMT
From today's Metro  |
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Post by anthony40 on Apr 24, 2019 18:16:47 GMT
Sorry to bump this post but just thought I would update you all with regards to this.
So, as I have clearly stated on many an occasion, I am an Australian but am here for over 15 years as an EU citizen (Maltese heritage and for those whom have ever met me, this explains my Mediterranean appearance). So Brecit affects directly..
I submitted my EU Settlement Scheme of Friday morning and today received an email confirming that my application was successful. Yay!
Guess I'm not going anywhere for a while.
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