2,761 posts
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Brexit
Jul 23, 2020 21:37:50 GMT
Post by n1david on Jul 23, 2020 21:37:50 GMT
Labour aren't going to oppose no deal because there's no mechanism for them to do anything about it, so there's no upside for them in doing so. They can't force an extension as that deadline has passed, they can't negotiate a deal if none exists, so by what means would they be able to stop it? They can condemn it happening but fighting against it is pointless, it's spending political capital to no end.
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2,339 posts
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Brexit
Jul 24, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 24, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
Also remember Labour are not going to whole heartly oppose no deal due to the political risks of being seen to be too pro European and no chance of the government having to change course if it's what they decide Wish they would have been a little less pro European before the election
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 7:35:44 GMT
The forum is throwing up an advertisement:
Brits Are Baffled Pounds Plummeting to Zero
I thought it might be a comment on the effect of Brexit on the economy, but it turns out it looks like it's just a diet ad.
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1,970 posts
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Post by sf on Jul 25, 2020 11:42:59 GMT
The forum is throwing up an advertisement: Brits Are Baffled Pounds Plummeting to Zero I thought it might be a comment on the effect of Brexit on the economy, but it turns out it looks like it's just a diet ad. The morning after the referendum I sat in the cafe in my local Tesco Extra listening in slack-jawed amazement to the conversation at the table behind me - a man on his phone loudly bemoaning the pound's overnight drop against the Euro. He'd voted Leave, because it was the patriotic thing to do (his words, not mine), and he'd come in to get currency for his holiday to Lanzarote... and he'd thought a Leave win might affect the exchange rate, so he'd come early to see if the bureau de change counter had any old stock left at yesterday's price.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 16:01:23 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 25, 2020 16:01:23 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
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19,788 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 16:44:55 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 25, 2020 16:44:55 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
If it’s that big of a problem you can still get them on Amazon.
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5,159 posts
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Brexit
Jul 25, 2020 17:22:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by TallPaul on Jul 25, 2020 17:22:12 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
If it’s that big of a problem you can still get them on Amazon. I'm not even sure there is a need to make Jeff Bezos even richer. Just look for 'rough service' lightbulbs in somewhere like a traditional hardware store.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 27, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 27, 2020 17:52:04 GMT
I have got a feeling Spain might well consider vetoing any trade deal going by what Sky News says.
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724 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 8:17:49 GMT
Post by basdfg on Jul 30, 2020 8:17:49 GMT
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4,156 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 8:40:23 GMT
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 8:40:23 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
Which is mad, because these days energy-saving lightbulbs are just as bright as the old-fashioned ones. You just have to buy the kind with the higher wattage. Of course they're not going away. Climate Change - and the need to produce less carbon by using less energy - isn't disappearing just because we left the EU.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 10:08:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 10:08:21 GMT
One of things a lot of my family are looking forward to happening is the return of old style lightbulbs - their hatred to the new energy saving ones holds no bounds.
I bet the old ones do not return through.
It is fascinating how such a minor issue is a big problem for them.
Which is mad, because these days energy-saving lightbulbs are just as bright as the old-fashioned ones. You just have to buy the kind with the higher wattage. Of course they're not going away. Climate Change - and the need to produce less carbon by using less energy - isn't disappearing just because we left the EU. It's not just climate change. With our increasing dependence on electronic gadgets we need more electricity than we did a couple of decades ago and there wouldn't have been the generating capacity to meet the demand if we'd kept using incandescent light bulbs. (I was surprised just how inefficient incandescent bulbs are. Lighting my living room with incandescent bulbs for six hours a day for a week would use the same amount of energy as putting more than 20 loads of washing through the washing machine.) I can understand why some people didn't like compact fluorescents: as they aged they took an annoyingly long time to come up to full brightness, turning them on and off again quickly drastically shortened their life, and as I discovered in my own house a long run of wiring could couple across enough power to cause them to flash even when switched off. But modern LEDs are superior to incandescents in every way, unless you enjoy being plunged into darkness with a ping, standing on chairs and the experience of burnt fingertips.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 10:42:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 10:42:25 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 11:11:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 11:11:04 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war. The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc.
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 11:41:51 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 11:41:51 GMT
frappuccino , many Companies will look to ship from the EU via Ireland, it is easier from a paperwork perspective to ship products manufactured outside mainland U.K. through the EU as there will be no export issues if manufactured in the EU and only one submission if from outside the EU. Any UK Companies selling items procured in the EU then sold to NI will need to import to the U.K. and then export to NI completing the required Customs paperwork twice and therefore increasing admin costs which EU suppliers will not need to. Rosslare is likely to become a significant Port as Holyhead and Stranraer lose their transit Ports status to Ireland. Already Amazon have said any U.K. sellers using their services to sell in the EU will need stock in EU Warehouses to continue shipping through Amazon in the EU as unable to support the individual order level of export compliance. This will apply even with or without a Deal as the only way it could be removed is if we stay in the Customs Union.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:27:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:27:43 GMT
You may know that I voted for Brexit and still support it. But I think we do need to get things sorted as a no deal isn't in any parties interests but with the pandemic things have been skewered sideays.
One wildcard might be if any country gets the vaccine then that country has huge negogiating power.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:35:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:35:29 GMT
So how are they going to handle the logistics of Northern Ireland? I mean the Good Friday Agreement means they have must have free travel to Ireland but then citizens of the EU can sneak in through Northern Ireland via Ireland? Hmm... Somehow I doubt 'The troubles' will return though. Irish don't face as much descrimination as before plus the younger generations prefers to sort things out via the ballot box rather than civil war. The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc. Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient).
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:42:34 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 12:42:34 GMT
The narrative coming from the EU at the moment is that No Deal from their perspective is their preferred option and not a disaster as in the long term it may make the EU stronger, they only need to protect themselves from any negative spin and will therefore maintain openness whilst sticking to the level playing field stance.
Individually most EU Countries will at worst lose less than 3% of their Export GDP If they stop shipping to the U.K., COVID means that there is excess capacity in the EU at the moment and most things previously sourced in the UK will be easily sourced from an EU Country mitigating the cross EU nation GDP % losses.
To hamper U.K. free access will benefit the EU COVID recovery and the U.K. will need to capitulate as they did in the NI solution in the Withdrawal Agreement to continue tariff free EU access remembering that the Customs hurdles remain whatever happens with a Deal as remaining in the Customs Union impacts our Sovereignty the core remit of Brexit.
This is not a dogmatic Brexit Position but an economic analysis on the numbers alone, there is very little made in the U.K. that cannot be made in the EU.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:49:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 12:49:56 GMT
NI Unionists cleary wouldn't want to cut ties and if NI did go seperate the Republicans would be demanding a United Ireland.
With Covid Nicola Sturgeon has been seen as handling the crisis well and there may be more talk of another referendum but the furloughing scheme came from London. Would Scotland risk anything if we have further outbreaks and this sort of support may be needed. If things ever get back to normal I can see her looking for another crack at it.
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 12:50:45 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 30, 2020 12:50:45 GMT
Northern Ireland in all but name left the UK on the 31st Jan, in all but taxation and Governance Northern Ireland is an EU Nation.
There will be no major moment but Northern Ireland will sleepwalk to an united Ireland as their focus moves to closer trade with the EU which means closer ties with Dublin than London.
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4,988 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 13:01:51 GMT
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 30, 2020 13:01:51 GMT
Facebook is telling me that Stanley Johnson is applying for French citizenship. Such a proud father
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by frappuccino on Jul 30, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies"
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4,156 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 14:25:20 GMT
Post by kathryn on Jul 30, 2020 14:25:20 GMT
The UK will not withstand the twin pressures of Brexit and Covid. I fully expect Scotland and Northern Ireland to cut ties within a decade, Wales following later. The best way to stop that would be a fully federal state but I think the will to campaign for that has taken a massive hit. I don’t think Northern Ireland would initially vote for a fully united Ireland, maybe some sort of partnership with currency, defence co-operation etc. Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient). Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought?
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:32:10 GMT
Northern Ireland doesn't have the economic capabilities to be self-sustaining, nor sufficient natural resources. It is also, I believe, still (just) majority unionist, and a partnership with Ireland in any formal shape or form will not get through unless mandated by a referendum or if the Stormont institutional structure is torn up entirely, which can't happen under the Good Friday Agreement (which is why it is so politically inefficient). Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought? It shouldn't, but it will, because there are too many people who grow up indoctrinated into the extremist ends of the political spectrum. You only have to walk down certain streets in the suburbs of Belfast (or anywhere else in the country) and see the amount of flags, divisive murals (not all murals, but some) and painted kerb stones to realise why some things in NI will sadly never change. The local news still regularly contains reports of paramilitary shootings and arson attacks, and there are sizeable sections of NI society that are still hugely narrow-minded and intolerant. That is part of the reason I left.
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2,339 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 15:02:52 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 30, 2020 15:02:52 GMT
People say Nicola Sturgeon will bring in more right wing policies while distracting people about a Scottish referendum. E.g. "SNP is more right wing than Labour but I will vote for SNP because of their stance on Scottish independence even though I prefer Labour's policies" More right wing than Starmer's Labour Party?? Tory party isn't it
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2,339 posts
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Brexit
Jul 30, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 30, 2020 15:04:44 GMT
Will it stay majority unionist, though, if screwed over by a government in Westminster that hasn't taken their needs into account? Particularly among the younger generation - the youngsters are used to not being impacted by a border with either Ireland or the UK, and not having their daily lives disrupted or endangered by the Troubles. What are they actually getting out of being part of a Union that treats them like an afterthought? It shouldn't, but it will, because there are too many people who grow up indoctrinated into the extremist ends of the political spectrum. You only have to walk down certain streets in the suburbs of Belfast (or anywhere else in the country) and see the amount of flags, divisive murals (not all murals, but some) and painted kerb stones to realise why some things in NI will sadly never change. The local news still regularly contains reports of paramilitary shootings and arson attacks, and there are sizeable sections of NI society that are still hugely narrow-minded and intolerant. That is part of the reason I left. Aren't catholics catching up protestants in terms of population?
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