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Post by scarletmood on Apr 27, 2024 14:59:57 GMT
I don't like the generalisation of if you support the protests you are left wing, if you don't you are a working class Tory which I guess is what we pigeonhole DM readers as. The protests at cultural events would annoy a lot of the people who may be arts benefactors but have socially liberal views and doing stuff on trains and buses just stops the everyday working person who also has to contend with strikes.
It needed tough but fair policing to move them on or stop them disrupting everyday lives. That is about as fair as I can be with them.
Why don't JSO field political candidates like other causes do try and get some attention that way?
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Post by shownut on Apr 27, 2024 15:01:58 GMT
I didn't see a back and forth of left vs right. I just saw a generalisation. That said, politics clearly do come in to the debate when discussing Just Stop Oil (though they have gone quiet recently - perhaps it's the cold months and they don't come out, or perhaps they've realised those of us who drive will probably stick to combustion engines for a couple of decades more yet). With all due respect you made comments in that direction roughly 5 hours ago. I will just ignore the political banter but it is irritating to see a post about an awful incident in a theatre have to descend into a thread where people who disagree with the tactics of the protesters are labelled as right wing/Daily Mail readers and so on.... It doesn't belong here.
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Post by David J on Apr 27, 2024 15:13:19 GMT
I didn't see a back and forth of left vs right. I just saw a generalisation. That said, politics clearly do come in to the debate when discussing Just Stop Oil (though they have gone quiet recently - perhaps it's the cold months and they don't come out, or perhaps they've realised those of us who drive will probably stick to combustion engines for a couple of decades more yet). This is the culmination of the rise of social media and the finger pointing with every 'ist' or far right accusation you can make. Justified or otherwise Once upon a time we would agree to disagree. Nowadays you have echo chambers of all kinds who will not listen to any reasoned or well-thought arguments and resort to the attack. And they can get the press involved and make an argument bigger than it really is The goalposts keep moving. Those who consider themselves in the middle or centre-left are accused to be hard right. You can say you are for green energy and saving the planet, but one day you express a differing opinion that isn't aligned with the group-think or current-year and you are deemed a heathen by those you'd think are your allies. Sure both sides are in on the game, but I do find one side is louder No matter how hard you try to say the right thing, it will never be enough for some cliques. And you wonder why these protestors drive average joe away from their cause. Give it time and the accusers will find themselves on the receiving end and wonder what they did wrong.
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Post by asfound on Apr 27, 2024 15:15:56 GMT
Just posting support for the protesters here. They are trying to save the world. Whatever you think, they aren’t doing this for personal gain and I’m constantly amazed at how little empathy people have for these protests. It’s hard to protest effectively when it affects no-one as it gets NO publicity and people do feel quite powerless these days. I know, I know, it’s annoying and inconvenient and not necessarily effective. They probably said the same about the suffragettes (who smashed windows and broke laws in their campaign) Ok, I’ll go now. Absolutely with you Latecomer. When this thread started I was slightly shocked, actually very shocked, with how right wing/Daily Fail the Theatreboard suddenly seemed to lean via this thread. The (inate? & depressing) selfishness of humanity sadly glows in moments like this. Reminds me of the pasta/loo roll grabs at the start of the pandemic. Unfortunately, despite theatre and art patrons presenting a facade of progressivism and forward thinking and purporting to support green causes, nothing rattles the elder generations more than having to give up some of their excessive privilege and convenience for the benefit of the majority and especially future generations. The discussions of LTNs and JSO protests here are embarrassing, and wouldn't be out of place on the Daily Mail's comments sections. More protests and more LTNs!
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Post by mkb on Apr 27, 2024 15:35:10 GMT
Absolutely with you Latecomer. When this thread started I was slightly shocked, actually very shocked, with how right wing/Daily Fail the Theatreboard suddenly seemed to lean via this thread. The (inate? & depressing) selfishness of humanity sadly glows in moments like this. Reminds me of the pasta/loo roll grabs at the start of the pandemic. Unfortunately, despite theatre and art patrons presenting a facade of progressivism and forward thinking and purporting to support green causes, nothing rattles the elder generations more than having to give up some of their excessive privilege and convenience for the benefit of the majority and especially future generations. The discussions of LTNs and JSO protests here are embarrassing, and wouldn't be out of place on the Daily Mail's comments sections. More protests and more LTNs! There are nine pages of comments on here, within which several people have argued why many of the protests are alienating mass opinion and setting back efforts to tackle climate change by years. Why don't you respond to those arguments intelligently rather than hurl around offensive ad hominen insults?
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Post by manchestertheatrefan on Apr 27, 2024 15:53:19 GMT
Absolutely with you Latecomer. When this thread started I was slightly shocked, actually very shocked, with how right wing/Daily Fail the Theatreboard suddenly seemed to lean via this thread. The (inate? & depressing) selfishness of humanity sadly glows in moments like this. Reminds me of the pasta/loo roll grabs at the start of the pandemic. Unfortunately, despite theatre and art patrons presenting a facade of progressivism and forward thinking and purporting to support green causes, nothing rattles the elder generations more than having to give up some of their excessive privilege and convenience for the benefit of the majority and especially future generations. The discussions of LTNs and JSO protests here are embarrassing, and wouldn't be out of place on the Daily Mail's comments sections. More protests and more LTNs! But what have the protests achieved - and that is a serious question. If we use the example of the protest at Les Mis which started this conversation, what has it actually achieved? I haven't seen swarms of people joining the cause, I haven't seen any debate in parliament around green initiatives as a result of JSO, I haven't seen any changes in peoples behaviour around being green. I have seen a large number of people angry and frustrated by JSO - so the only thing I can see that it is achieved is people turning against them, ruining a night out for the theatre-goers, criminal damage to the production and public money being wasted prosecuting them. I love when they turn up on TV, because they absolutely embarrass themselves, contradict themselves (then blame the interviewer of being against them) then throw generalisations around similar to yours that either your with me or your an older / tory / want the world to die. So for my over generalisation (and I am not an older person, right wing or a Tory) lock up all the LTN and JSO protestors in a prison on a remote island so we don't have to suffer them.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 27, 2024 18:10:57 GMT
I didn't see a back and forth of left vs right. I just saw a generalisation. That said, politics clearly do come in to the debate when discussing Just Stop Oil (though they have gone quiet recently - perhaps it's the cold months and they don't come out, or perhaps they've realised those of us who drive will probably stick to combustion engines for a couple of decades more yet). With all due respect you made comments in that direction roughly 5 hours ago. I will just ignore the political banter but it is irritating to see a post about an awful incident in a theatre have to descend into a thread where people who disagree with the tactics of the protesters are labelled as right wing/Daily Mail readers and so on.... It doesn't belong here. My comment was facetious regarding my garden. Personally, I'm not interested in anybody's political views as I'm here for theatre.
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Post by scarletmood on Apr 28, 2024 0:59:27 GMT
Someone chose to re-ignite this debate when the topic had been quiet for a while. I'd suggest we leave it open until the Les Mis mob have had their case concluded and we can constructively comment on that. But then maybe close the topic.
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