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Post by sarissima on Dec 26, 2020 23:24:03 GMT
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if there's ever been a sit-down production (an open-ended run) of a show in a city other than London, or perhaps a particularly long run of a musical?
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Post by danb on Dec 27, 2020 5:38:40 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 7:38:38 GMT
Was also gonna say Les Mis and Phantom in Manchester.
Les Mis might even have been open ended there?!
Hopefully someone can remember!
Can’t think of any others...
Edit - I was wrong. Les Mis did three months in Manc. It’s first tour just had 3 stops all with longer runs, but planned and not open ended.
Don’t know about Phantom but imagine same?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 8:13:04 GMT
Looks like Phantom may have been open ended in Manchester.
According to the internet was at the Opera House October 1993 to July 1995.
Pretty impressive! I’d absolutely love it if Manchester could sustain a run of that length now. Sadly I don’t think there’s anything that would have quite the phenomenal reputation that Phantom had in it’s first 10 years when the mega musicals truly traversed the theatre bubbles to mainstream culture.
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Post by ali973 on Dec 27, 2020 9:15:48 GMT
You mean in the UK? It's a bit more common in the USA in major cities outside of the New York area. Phantom had a long sit-down in LA once upon a time, and so did Wicked.
Chicago had sit-down productions of Hamilton, Wicked and Billy Elliot.
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Post by sarissima on Dec 27, 2020 9:49:56 GMT
Looks like Phantom may have been open ended in Manchester. According to the internet was at the Opera House October 1993 to July 1995. Pretty impressive! I’d absolutely love it if Manchester could sustain a run of that length now. Sadly I don’t think there’s anything that would have quite the phenomenal reputation that Phantom had in it’s first 10 years when the mega musicals truly traversed the theatre bubbles to mainstream culture. Wow! That's incredible. And I agree, it's difficult to imagine that ever happening again. |
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Post by sarissima on Dec 27, 2020 9:51:09 GMT
You mean in the UK? It's a bit more common in the USA in major cities outside of the New York area. Phantom had a long sit-down in LA once upon a time, and so did Wicked. Chicago had sit-down productions of Hamilton, Wicked and Billy Elliot. Yup, that's why I was asking. They are pretty common in the US, and I was wondering if the UK had had any at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 9:59:35 GMT
Also worth mentioning that in Europe, Germany has sit down productions in lots of different cities and is 2nd only to the UK in this respect. Other European countries do do them but mainly in their capitals. Germany still has them across the country. Sadly they are not nearly as successful as they used to be for a multitude of reasons (I have learned an awful lot from viserys). In the 80s though they had sit downs of all the biggest shows (Cats, Phantom, Starlight, Palladium version Joseph, Sunset, Les Mis, Miss Saigon) often in newly built theatres, was quite a phenomenon there. Starlight is still running 32 years on. Back to the UK though it is very rare. Am sure at some point there most have been other examples through and hopefully someone on here might remember. |
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Post by poster J on Dec 27, 2020 11:07:51 GMT
You mean in the UK? It's a bit more common in the USA in major cities outside of the New York area. Phantom had a long sit-down in LA once upon a time, and so did Wicked. Chicago had sit-down productions of Hamilton, Wicked and Billy Elliot. Wicked had another sit down production in San Francisco too, I remember seeing that years ago. And Hamilton's first National Tour did six months in San Francisco and then six months in LA, so its first cast were essentially doing a sit down production. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 13:15:35 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop. Pretty sure Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ran about 3 months in each venue on it's first UK tour as well as did Mary Poppins. |
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Post by danb on Dec 27, 2020 14:23:48 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop. Pretty sure Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ran about 3 months in each venue on it's first UK tour as well as did Mary Poppins. Poppins did a six week try out at the Bristol Hippodrome too pre-West End; does that count? I have the poster on our bathroom wall! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 15:57:37 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop. Les Mis did 13 months in Manchester from April 1992, before doing shorter runs in Dublin and Edinburgh. So it was an open-ended run in Manchester when it was first announced. Edinburgh was also extended slightly, finally closing in February 1994 (after almost 5 months). This was an exact replica of the original London and Broadway productions, so wasn't scaled down to tour, and used the original set from the Broadway Theatre in New York (which had to be replaced when it moved to the Imperial). Phantom was the same. It did almost 2 years in Manchester, from 1993-1995, and was again an open-ended run when it started. After Manchester, it did about 8 months in Edinburgh. So these were sit-down productions in that they were announced as open-ended runs and weren't designed to travel to multiple venues (for Les Mis, the Edinburgh Playhouse had to knock down the back wall to load the barricades in). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 21:29:27 GMT
Apparently Cats first non London engagement in the UK was 6 months in Blackpool in 1989. No idea if was always planned to be 6 months or if it was open ended.... Much like Les Mis it moved on to Edinburgh and Dublin it seems and was labelled as the first "UK tour."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 23:50:16 GMT
Lion King’s tour stops are usually very long, eg Edinburgh this year opened in December and was due to run until the end of April, extending twice, but then Covid struck so it closed early in March. I believe the planned Manchester run is similar, something like 16 weeks?
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Post by mrcompanymanager on Dec 28, 2020 0:00:10 GMT
Harry Potter was looking at an open ended run at Manchester Opera House pre-covid...
Grease did 6 months at the Manchester Opera House in 1996.
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Post by Oleanna on Dec 28, 2020 0:08:43 GMT
Let’s be clear. A sit-down is a (usually) open-ended production planned for one theatre at one time.
A long tour stop is not a sit-down.
An out-of-town is not a sit-down.
Just thought it would be helpful to clear that up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 0:34:46 GMT
Pretty sure Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ran about 3 months in each venue on it's first UK tour as well as did Mary Poppins. Poppins did a six week try out at the Bristol Hippodrome too pre-West End; does that count? I have the poster on our bathroom wall! I doubt it would count as a "sit-down" as it was a limited run pre-West End try-out. But I loved that original poster with the cherry blossoms in the shape of Mary and the original title. So much better than the cartoon graphic and the white and red capital font they still use today. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 9:54:50 GMT
Let’s be clear. A sit-down is a (usually) open-ended production planned for one theatre at one time. A long tour stop is not a sit-down. An out-of-town is not a sit-down. Just thought it would be helpful to clear that up. I agree with you! Problem is, looking back to a pre internet era it is hard to know what producers intentions were. But Phantom and Les Mis in Manchester, given their length of run (and scale of production) one would have thought must have been open-ended/sit-down. What's less clear is the Cats 6 months in Blackpool I found out about yesterday as it looks like that did lead in to the first tour. Was the 6 months planned or did they open it and see what happened? 6 months is of course longer than many West End open-ended shows manage. There is further blurring of the semantics for shows that are designed to be able to move, but have open ended runs in each venue. For example in Germany a show might open in Hamburg, run until demand drops, then transfer to Stuttgart. Was always the plan that it would move but in each place it is open ended. This also happens in Australia and the USA but isn't something we see in the UK any more (though could have been the model for the first Cats tour). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 10:02:22 GMT
It's off topic, but what I do miss are the 90s tours which had incredible scale and were designed for longer runs at each venue. The 2nd Cats tour kicked off in Bristol and was there about 4 months. Was the most spectacular version I have ever seen, other than the New London. Including having more wow factor than the Palladium. There were star field LEDs going right up to the Upper Circle, extensive fairy lights everywhere and the ascent to the Heaviside lair was as per the EP DVD.
The first Miss Saigon tour however was probably the most breathtaking and technically impressive show I have seen outside London - was more or less identical to the Drury Lane version. Makes me sad that nobody would ever spend that kind of money on a tour now!
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Post by poster J on Dec 28, 2020 11:03:23 GMT
Let’s be clear. A sit-down is a (usually) open-ended production planned for one theatre at one time. A long tour stop is not a sit-down. An out-of-town is not a sit-down. Just thought it would be helpful to clear that up. And the UK doesn't really do sit-downs outside London, so if we don't talk about long tour stops then we don't have a thread. |
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Post by tommy123 on Dec 28, 2020 18:07:16 GMT
Harry Potter was looking at an open ended run at Manchester Opera House pre-covid... Grease did 6 months at the Manchester Opera House in 1996. Surely the only way for Harry Potter to tour would be to do these longer tour stops due to the changes that would need to be made. I believe this is what they’re doing in America with the recent San Francisco production which I believe when demand goes they will move to Chicago/LA. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a 9-12 month long tour stops in places like Manchester, Edinburgh, Dublin. Although having said that...it does appear that demand for Cursed Child isn’t as high! There were big discussions about this pre-COVID with the Broadway production. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 18:16:51 GMT
There were very very vague rumours pre covid that a purpose built venue for Starlight Express was being considered near Birmingham NEC.
Been dreaming of this for years....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 18:18:20 GMT
Harry Potter was looking at an open ended run at Manchester Opera House pre-covid... Grease did 6 months at the Manchester Opera House in 1996. Surely the only way for Harry Potter to tour would be to do these longer tour stops due to the changes that would need to be made. I believe this is what they’re doing in America with the recent San Francisco production which I believe when demand goes they will move to Chicago/LA. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a 9-12 month long tour stops in places like Manchester, Edinburgh, Dublin. Although having said that...it does appear that demand for Cursed Child isn’t as high! There were big discussions about this pre-COVID with the Broadway production. With three huge commercial theatres, Manchester/Salford is the perfect place for a sit down production as you'd still have two theatres free for the tours. In fact in a post covid world, would be fab if they looked in to it. Question is - is there any production that could sustain an open ended run outside London? |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 28, 2020 19:04:20 GMT
@dom I'm guessing out of the current crop Hamilton could maybe have a sit down run.
This thread does make me question where is the next Phantom, Les Miz, Wicked etc?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 19:18:59 GMT
@dom I'm guessing out of the current crop Hamilton could maybe have a sit down run. This thread does make me question where is the next Phantom, Les Miz, Wicked etc? I also wonder this! In fact 30 years on lol, I think Phantom or Les Mis would STILL have the best chance of an open ended Manchester run. Wicked would be the next most likely contender. I honestly can't see Hamilton having traction outside of London, but I could be wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 19:19:32 GMT
I could actually imagine Six running in the small Lowry theatre for an open season.
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 28, 2020 19:38:57 GMT
Thing is with Manchester it does have 3 theatres, however all the big shows end up in the Palace, the ones that can’t get the Palace end up in the Opera House. The Lowry seems to struggle to get shows. I would have thought Manchester scene would be much brisker, as it is our second biggest city. It is also very accessible from other cities such as Leeds, Sheffield and Liverpool. So no big deal to go for a night out in other cities. Where in London you are pretty much trapped in London and it is very hard to go to other cities..
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 28, 2020 19:39:31 GMT
Bat Out of Hell and Ghost both tried out in Manchester.
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Post by poster J on Dec 28, 2020 19:44:52 GMT
@dom I'm guessing out of the current crop Hamilton could maybe have a sit down run. This thread does make me question where is the next Phantom, Les Miz, Wicked etc? I also wonder this! In fact 30 years on lol, I think Phantom or Les Mis would STILL have the best chance of an open ended Manchester run. Wicked would be the next most likely contender. I honestly can't see Hamilton having traction outside of London, but I could be wrong. Before Covid I would have said Hamilton would easily have traction outside London, but most people who wanted to see it will now have done so on Disney + I would have thought the Lion King could still potentially make enough money in a sit down production in Manchester - it is pretty much timeless. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2020 20:01:32 GMT
I guess the thing about the sit down productions in Manchester in the 90s, was that they were huge physical productions so there was an economical reason to make that investment and claw it back over the longer term. It also enabled the 'mega musicals' to be seen in the North. To mount them elsewhere they kind of had to be sit down.
It isn't really the case now and most of the recent West End musicals could tour easily with exactly the same set (Six, Jamie, Evan, Waitress, Come From Away).
Certainly there is nothing that would require the removal of a wall like the barricades getting in to the Edinburgh Playhouse.
For that reason I guess it's unlikely to be something we'll see again. Although on this basis Lion King and Wicked would be the front runners. Though both already been seen on tour there.
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