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Post by talkingheads on Dec 11, 2019 18:07:56 GMT
Appears tactical voting is proving to be popular, a tweet from tactical.vote earlier Visits to tactical.vote are through the roof today and we're expecting even more tomorrow. We've added more servers and load balancing to make sure it stays online. Not sure of the validity of their recommendation, as always check a few and clarify for yourself before voting if you are in the fortunate position where your vote can make a difference. Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless.
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 11, 2019 18:29:28 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. In contrast I believe the current amount of state support (or lack of it) is radical. I think only the US smaller? Labour has to move to a different model as the current one just won’t work. Have you seen the interview where Gordon Brown said that he thinks Corbyn has the right idea and that he would have brought in a similar programme if he could have, but that then the British public would not believe it possible. He says thinking on the continent (and in some parts here - see Financial Times) has now moved on and some countries now trying it. Ordinary will not solve our problems...we will just decline, as we are doing, in a gradual depressing way, until we have no services and it is normal to have extreme hardship. Your library will close, your bus will go, your queue on the phone for that doctors appointment will get longer. Oh, hold on....that’s already happening.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 11, 2019 18:38:01 GMT
Appears tactical voting is proving to be popular, a tweet from tactical.vote earlier Visits to tactical.vote are through the roof today and we're expecting even more tomorrow. We've added more servers and load balancing to make sure it stays online. Not sure of the validity of their recommendation, as always check a few and clarify for yourself before voting if you are in the fortunate position where your vote can make a difference. Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless. Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 11, 2019 18:46:13 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 The fact that the Lib Dems have gone down in the polls against a couple of leaders as divisive as Boris and JC says a lot about them. Whilst I'm not a Jo Swinson fan, I would have thought that as a successful woman under 40 she would have been an ideal alternative to woo the younger and remain voters as they would never vote for Boris and JC could be seen as too old and not someone they'd support. Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). If you are in a target then, boy, will you know about it. If not then, like me, you have barely noticed a Lib Dem presence. This is my first general election in a new constituency. I got a lot of Lib Dem and Green advertising for the Euros and the Locals. This time, nothing, nada, diddly squat. They are putting up paper candidates in many constituencies and will, by design, and to assist tactical voting, do pretty well in 10% of constituencies and pretty badly in the rest.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 11, 2019 20:08:31 GMT
I don't really understand this way of thinking at all. We all know that at least 50% of what these people tout at election time will never happen, ie most of the frankly stupid special interest stuff Labour has been touting and even if they do who cares as they affect so few people anyways. Their main policies however are for the general betterment of society and will never happen under the Tories. A vote for the Lib Dems is utterly pointless, you may as well vote for the Tories. If the Tories win there are going to be some very very dark times ahead for a hell of a lot of people. The fact no one seems to have noticed what has happened in the US over the past 3 years is very frightening to me, because that is exactly where we are heading. Frankly we are already part way there. Mine’s a protest vote as much as anything because I’m in a very safe Labour seat so it wouldn’t matter who I voted for. But I personally don’t like a lot of what this present socialist Labour Party stands for. I’m not voting for the Conservatives because I don’t trust them, I can’t stand Boris, I don’t like the way they’ve embraced the trump model of populism that seeks only to divide, and I don’t like how they’ve effectively become the far right Brexit party, but that doesn’t just mean I should vote for the Labour Party by default. I find the prospect of Corbyn being in power just as frightening as Johnson. For f***s sake
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 11, 2019 20:51:02 GMT
Is it just me who doesn't get tactical voting? Surely it doesn't work unless everybody joins in and does it? Say you change your normal vote to tactical, but what if a Tory for example has been convinced to vote Labour this election instead? So I'm voting Labour regardless. Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned. Thanks! I've tried to be as well informed as I can but being well informed of the right information is so hard in this election! I just want the Tories out ASAP, and every tactical voting site I've been too said I should vote Lib Dem so despite being Labour all my life, that's what I'll do tomorrow.
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 11, 2019 20:59:06 GMT
Current tactical voting has Con to Lab switchers at statistically negligible amounts, it isn’t happening (for obvious reasons). Labour voters are switching to Brexit, Conservative or Lib Dems depending where they are, Conservatives are switching to Lib Dems and Brexit, Lib Dem and Green voters are switching to Labour. Much of the movement in polls has been because of this wholesale tactical switching (a side effect of the ridiculous electoral system). If you know that Labour are not favoured in your seat, then a Labour vote is allowing a Conservative to win (if you are a Conservative disgruntled with Johnson, then a Labour wasted vote would be a good one for you, though). Check here tactical.vote/compareMy constituency suggests to vote Labour, so despite them being my third choice party (I voted Lib Dem and Green in the other two elections this year), then Labour it has to be, even if I’m not particularly aligned. Thanks! I've tried to be as well informed as I can but being well informed of the right information is so hard in this election! I just want the Tories out ASAP, and every tactical voting site I've been too said I should vote Lib Dem so despite being Labour all my life, that's what I'll do tomorrow. Swapmyvote.uk makes me feel better about the tactical vote. Suggested it to Jamie Parker yesterday on twitter (who was having similar issues) and he replied to say he’d done it! That’s it Pinnacle reached!
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 11, 2019 22:27:12 GMT
I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. The radical thing is what's happened in the last 30 years and in particular since 2007. It's like arguing privatised healthcare is normal and proposing an NHS is extremist nonsense.
For example, the damage water privatisation has caused is immeasurable, all in the interests of shareholders and bonuses. It's appalling and obscene, yet in this country - alone - it's almost unquestioned. For anyone interested in what the water companies have done, Fergal Sharkey - former lead singer with The Undertones - has become a strong campaigner and advocate (see Twitter).
But that is literally one of dozens of extreme policies deemed within the range of 'normal' by the centre and centre-right media, and so the Gov gets a pass.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 23:00:21 GMT
Yes, absolutely the last thing we need right now is voters getting distracted by the fact a potential PM is also a potential security hazard! ;-) Do you mean Boris Johnson? Who takes Russian money and slipped his minders to party at that house with the Russian? And who refused to publish the report into Russia? And has Cummings as an advisor who has hid splippery hands all over the Vote Leave stuff? And stirs up hate of the Far Right with his comments about immigration? Get a grip. Actually I meant the guy who merrily hangs out with terrorists and anti-semites. Who dislikes the whole concept of our security services (though I suppose that’s only to be expected, given they had plenty of reason to be suspicious of him and certain of his cronies over the years). Who’ll happily trade Trident for...what? A handshake and a please-leave-us-alone-pretty-please smile when Kim and Putin come calling? Who we know allied security services have said they’ll be VERY circumspect about sharing information with if he gets in - thereby placing the entire country at risk. But sure, I’ll go on getting a grip. And you can go on encouraging people to vote for that guy...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 23:05:36 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 Ah sparky, you are so right... I’ve voted Tory this time, with some misgivings but hoping once Brexit is out of the way (well, the first stage at least) we see a return to the one nation Conservatism we’ve been promised.
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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 11, 2019 23:21:25 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 I disagree. In any other European country the Labour manifesto would not be considered radical. In contrast I believe the current amount of state support (or lack of it) is radical. I think only the US smaller? Labour has to move to a different model as the current one just won’t work. Have you seen the interview where Gordon Brown said that he thinks Corbyn has the right idea and that he would have brought in a similar programme if he could have, but that then the British public would not believe it possible. He says thinking on the continent (and in some parts here - see Financial Times) has now moved on and some countries now trying it. Ordinary will not solve our problems...we will just decline, as we are doing, in a gradual depressing way, until we have no services and it is normal to have extreme hardship. Your library will close, your bus will go, your queue on the phone for that doctors appointment will get longer. Oh, hold on....that’s already happening. But what’s the point of moving to a new model if it won’t actually get you in power, or anywhere near a majority. You can only make change when you have the power to do so. This shoulda been a cake walk for Corbyn and Labour, but the fact that we’re looking at a probable Conservative majority says a lot to me. Yes, Brexit has muddled things, but the reason we are where we are is because Labour has just sat on the fence when it comes to Brexit, and it’s just played into the Conservatives’ hands.
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Post by olliebean on Dec 11, 2019 23:44:07 GMT
Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). This is the problem with the Lib-Dems, isn't it? The point of tactical voting is supposed to be to keep the Tories out now, not to position the Lib-Dems to win in 5 years time. In some of those seats, where they have no realistic chance of winning in this election, by urging people to vote tactically for them they are in fact just splitting the anti-Tory vote and ensuring a Tory victory.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 12, 2019 0:02:24 GMT
Do you mean Boris Johnson? Who takes Russian money and slipped his minders to party at that house with the Russian? And who refused to publish the report into Russia? And has Cummings as an advisor who has hid splippery hands all over the Vote Leave stuff? And stirs up hate of the Far Right with his comments about immigration? Get a grip. Actually I meant the guy who merrily hangs out with terrorists and anti-semites. Who dislikes the whole concept of our security services (though I suppose that’s only to be expected, given they had plenty of reason to be suspicious of him and certain of his cronies over the years). Who’ll happily trade Trident for...what? A handshake and a please-leave-us-alone-pretty-please smile when Kim and Putin come calling? Who we know allied security services have said they’ll be VERY circumspect about sharing information with if he gets in - thereby placing the entire country at risk. But sure, I’ll go on getting a grip. And you can go on encouraging people to vote for that guy...
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 12, 2019 0:20:05 GMT
Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). This is the problem with the Lib-Dems, isn't it? The point of tactical voting is supposed to be to keep the Tories out now, not to position the Lib-Dems to win in 5 years time. In some of those seats, where they have no realistic chance of winning in this election, by urging people to vote tactically for them they are in fact just splitting the anti-Tory vote and ensuring a Tory victory. No, these are seats which have moved away from Labour. No way they are winning in Surrey, much of Sussex, much of Hampshire etc. etc. There have been a few London seats that have had both parties going for it but that's pretty much it. I think the London centric nature of this board has twisted perceptions. What is happening in Finchley or Kensington is not happening in Manchester, Birmingham, 95% of the North and so on. Blair understood how Lib Dem success worked for him. Sadly, the current lot haven't.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 0:24:53 GMT
The fact that the Lib Dems have gone down in the polls against a couple of leaders as divisive as Boris and JC says a lot about them. Whilst I'm not a Jo Swinson fan, I would have thought that as a successful woman under 40 she would have been an ideal alternative to woo the younger and remain voters as they would never vote for Boris and JC could be seen as too old and not someone they'd support. Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and 30 to get into a winning position for 2024). If you are in a target then, boy, will you know about it. If not then, like me, you have barely noticed a Lib Dem presence. This is my first general election in a new constituency. I got a lot of Lib Dem and Green advertising for the Euros and the Locals. This time, nothing, nada, diddly squat. They are putting up paper candidates in many constituencies and will, by design, and to assist tactical voting, do pretty well in 10% of constituencies and pretty badly in the rest. Makes perfect sense as always what you say. I'll throw this idea out there whoever wins the Election today I'd back the other major party to take power next election. We'd have had a Tory lead administration for 14 years come 2024 Election or if it is sooner for well over a decade and I think that JC's policies would cause such chaos that Labour would likely be booted out at the next election if he got in.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Dec 12, 2019 1:11:43 GMT
Much of the switch is, like mine, for tactical reasons, they’ve been targetting just 60 constituencies (30 realistic prospects and /30 to get into a winning position for 2024). If you are in a target then, boy, will you know about it. If not then, like me, you have barely noticed a Lib Dem presence. This is my first general election in a new constituency. I got a lot of Lib Dem and Green advertising for the Euros and the Locals. This time, nothing, nada, diddly squat. They are putting up paper candidates in many constituencies and will, by design, and to assist tactical voting, do pretty well in 10% of constituencies and pretty badly in the rest. Makes perfect sense as always what you say. I'll throw this idea out there whoever wins the Election today I'd back the other major party to take power next election. We'd have had a Tory lead administration for 14 years come 2024 Election or if it is sooner for well over a decade and I think that JC's policies would cause such chaos that Labour would likely be booted out at the next election if he got in. It's the poisoned chalice of poisoned chalices. With the voter realignment being seen then how 2019 voting unwinds next time will be pretty chaotic as well.
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Post by olliebean on Dec 12, 2019 1:53:24 GMT
No, these are seats which have moved away from Labour. No way they are winning in Surrey, much of Sussex, much of Hampshire etc. etc. There have been a few London seats that have had both parties going for it but that's pretty much it. I think the London centric nature of this board has twisted perceptions. What is happening in Finchley or Kensington is not happening in Manchester, Birmingham, 95% of the North and so on. Blair understood how Lib Dem success worked for him. Sadly, the current lot haven't. That may be so, but it's still pretty cynical and dishonest of the Lib-Dems to encourage people to vote "tactically" for them in seats where they realistically aren't going to win at this election, just to give themselves an advantage in 2024.
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 12, 2019 7:29:33 GMT
If the Conservatives win this election then Labour has no one to blame but itself! This should have been a landslide for them! People can argue that the Conservatives have moved too far to the right, but Labour has moved too far to the left also, which is unpalatable to a lot of people, especially by allowing someone as inept as Corbyn to be their leader. The majority of this country are centralists in their politics (and there’s nothing wrong with that), but have no one to represent them so it’s a case of having to choose the least offensive of 2 awful candidates in Johnson and Corbyn. I’ve never been more depressed by the state of this country 😩 I’m unenthusiastically voting for the Lib Dems 😆😐 Ah sparky, you are so right... I’ve voted Tory this time, with some misgivings but hoping once Brexit is out of the way (well, the first stage at least) we see a return to the one nation Conservatism we’ve been promised. Good luck with that.....
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Post by olliebean on Dec 12, 2019 7:33:55 GMT
I can't help wondering what it is about anything Boris Johnson has said or done that makes anyone think his promises are worth anything.
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Post by The Matthew on Dec 12, 2019 7:48:08 GMT
I can't help wondering what it is about anything Boris Johnson has said or done that makes anyone think his promises are worth anything. Perhaps they're following the gambler's fallacy: he's lied so often in the past he must be due to tell the truth by now.
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 12, 2019 8:09:14 GMT
Well that's my vote done. Genuinely scared for the results. I am baffled how anyone could vote Tory. Nothing but lies upon lies. Their manifesto means nothing. They say they'll change and improve things - improve what? They've had 9 years! Our Prime Minister hid in a fridge rather than answer some questions! Right, I'm staying off the socials all day, can't be doing with it all!
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Post by The Matthew on Dec 12, 2019 8:20:48 GMT
I voted earlier. It was quite busy there, but I don't know if that's a reflection of how much people care about the result or how much they care about the fact that it's going to pour with rain later this morning.
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Post by Rory on Dec 12, 2019 9:07:28 GMT
I've just voted. Very quiet. Hope people get out there despite the drizzly and damp weather. They really need to.
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Post by olliebean on Dec 12, 2019 10:27:00 GMT
Tough decision for me - who do I want as Prime Minister: the man who turns up, helps out, and shows compassion when people are in trouble and suffering, even if it means missing the Queen's Christmas Message - or the man who refuses even to look at a picture of a suffering child? Could go either way, really...
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Post by londonmzfitz on Dec 12, 2019 10:47:24 GMT
Was at my Polling Station just before 8am. Quite a few people buzzing around - I'm in a very safe Labour district (Dawn Butler). Could never vote Conservative.
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Post by lynette on Dec 12, 2019 10:50:45 GMT
Well, vote early and vote often as my old dad used to say....
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 12, 2019 11:01:03 GMT
Hackney is a very safe labour seat and is full remainers, huge queue out the door of the polling station this morning, bigger than the EU referendum vote.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 12, 2019 12:28:00 GMT
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Post by tmesis on Dec 12, 2019 12:56:55 GMT
I voted at 7.45 am and I was the only one in the polling station. I always do vote but frankly it's pretty pointless here - my MP is one Michael Gove (majority 24,943.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 13:01:42 GMT
I’m inbetween houses at the mo so walked the hour walk in the pissing rain to get to the poll station. Only they have moved it. No probs I thought, bound to be within a couple hundred metres of the old one..........it isn’t - it’s an extra half an hour walk at the top of the steepest hill in Brighton! Sod that (Fortunately the people I were gonna vote for will win so disappointing but no biggiesmalls)
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